Falcon And Winter Soldier

[lefthanded]

Sam seemed to be doing 'relatively' okay against the Dora, and when he had his wings, he was beating the super soldier he was facing.

[Vic Vega]

This episode also has one of the more detailed (if brief) explanations of what things were like during The Blip.

With Society hanging from a thread, anybody was accepted into any country if they were willing to help out. So everyone went wherever they wanted to go, pitched in to help and expected to stay where they found themselves forever.

Then the Bilpped people came back and must have wanted their houses and stuff back.

[Captain Craig]

I think we can infer what Lemar/Battlestars next character growth is going to be from this episode.

Walker, Walker, Walker...you're losing it man. Keep calm.

[CosmiComic]

When the man who killed your King walking around free things change

Yeah

People acting line Sam is getting beat up when he is Clearly a great fighter in the Mcu.Also. When Sam held the shield in the comics he was badass also.

yeah, I think he'd be more formidable than the grounded guys

[Frontier]

Seeing Wakanda hits so differently knowing we may never see T'Challa again .

It was neat to see Bucky in Wakanda and getting the treatment he needed to no longer be effected by his trigger words. Seeing Bucky so happy that he can't be controlled anymore was sweet. You really do get the sense he might've been happier just staying in Wakanda...

Sam still showing off why he's the best choice to succeed Steve. He sees the other side and he wants to make peace and work together to resolve situations instead of just beat up bad guys and call it a day. Also a nice nod to his counselor/social service background that he wanted to talk to Karli rather than fight her.

Even Zemo admits Steve was the one Super Soldier that wasn't corrupt. I guess there was also Isaiah. I mean, he's angry at what the government did to him, but for good reason and he didn't turnaround and then become a terrorist because of it.

I still feel like Walker isn't a bad guy. Aggressive, out-of-his-depth, and trying way too hard, but I can still kind of see where he's coming from. Can't really blame him for taking the Super Soldier serum either, even if it didn't end well.

Of course Walker wasn't going to give Sam 10 minutes, but I feel like Bucky caved too quickly when he probably could've held Walker and Battlestar off.

Cap hit Zemo with his shield! Too bad it's the wrong Cap.

Man, kind of surreal to think there was actual good stuff that came out of the Blip and more problems when people came back. Kind of reminds me of G.I's coming back after WWII.

You get the sense that Karli really believes in what she's doing, and there's sense and value in what she's doing, but she's really on the verge of becoming a Supervillain because she's just too radicalized. Like, that speech to Sam's sister, even if it was just bluffing, went way, way too far.

Well, the Doras sure stole the show. That had to be very emasculating for Walker. And no surprise that there was a secret Wakandan trick to dislodging Bucky's arm that they gave him.

Kind of interesting that Zemo hasn't outright betrayed anyone yet but obviously has his own endgame in mind and keeps slipping away to fulfill it. He's pretty much destroyed all the Super Soldier serum, so what's left other than the Flag-Smashers themselves? And will they actually manage to catch him? Because it doesn't seem like Wakanda is going to let him walk free indefinitely.

Man, poor Lemar/Battlestar. He gets beat up in most of his screentime, is Walker's sole voice of reason, and then his death by Super Soldier is what drives Walker nuts. Guy deserved better.

Welp, Captain America just murdered a guy in cold blood in front of a bunch of people. That's going to be a PR nightmare. John Walker in a rage has compromised both the shield and the uniform. And the dude he killed was a Cap fan too.

[lefthanded]

I still feel like Walker isn't a bad guy. Aggressive, out-of-his-depth, and trying way too hard, but I can still kind of see where he's coming from. Can't really blame him for taking the Super Soldier serum either, even if it didn't end well.

Succession (the TV show, and the idea in general) always makes for an interesting story. This TV show has three would-be successors to the Captain America throne, all of them feeling the huge shadow of Steve Rogers looming over them. All of them have little bits of Steve Rogers characteristics to varying degrees (the pedigree, the background, the 'super-soldier' abilities, knowing right from wrong, etc), but not the complete picture
Walker, who literally has the mantle, is drowning under the weight. Although the viewers know not to root for him, we still understand his behaviors.

Kind of interesting that Zemo hasn't outright betrayed anyone yet but obviously has his own endgame in mind and keeps slipping away to fulfill it. He's pretty much destroyed all the Super Soldier serum, so what's left other than the Flag-Smashers themselves? And will they actually manage to catch him? Because it doesn't seem like Wakanda is going to let him walk free indefinitely.

Zemo seems for the most part to be acting honestly with the mission (bring down the super soldiers), and saw it to completion without betraying the heroes (he probably thinks he destroyed all the serum). He doesn't enact any evil plan, but merely slips away after the mission is kinda done, in the confusion.
It does seem weird that they *******phed (foreshadowed) a betrayal that never came (Eg. Lying to the little girl about Bucky and Sam seemed like a setup for something that didn't happen). He didn't even really withhold information all too much.

[Chris0013]

Zemo seems for the most part to be acting honestly with the mission (bring down the super soldiers), and saw it to completion without betraying the heroes (he probably thinks he destroyed all the serum). He doesn't enact any evil plan, but merely slips away after the mission is kinda done, in the confusion.
It does seem weird that they *******phed (foreshadowed) a betrayal that never came (Eg. Lying to the little girl about Bucky and Sam seemed like a setup for something that didn't happen). He didn't even really withhold information all too much.

He kept the info to himself but shared as needed to keep them from just throwing him back in a cell. And his escape was because no one wanted to play nice. And at least John made the attempt.

[Dariel81]

Sam speech with Karli was just wonderful I see why Steve Chose

[Eto]

MCU sam is so much better than 616 sam. Easily. All around lol.

I don't remember what ultimate sam was like.

MCU power levels are much more strict in the comics though

I'm sorry I truly don't understand it, you mean power levels in MCU are more strict or
power levels are more strict in comics.

[Eto]

Seeing Wakanda hits so differently knowing we may never see T'Challa again .

Right in the feels man...

It was neat to see Bucky in Wakanda and getting the treatment he needed to no longer be effected by his trigger words. Seeing Bucky so happy that he can't be controlled anymore was sweet. You really do get the sense he might've been happier just staying in Wakanda...

Yeah, but wouldn't he need a Wakandan passport?

Sam still showing off why he's the best choice to succeed Steve. He sees the other side and he wants to make peace and work together to resolve situations instead of just beat up bad guys and call it a day. Also a nice nod to his counselor/social service background that he wanted to talk to Karli rather than fight her.

Yep, I liked that part too.

Even Zemo admits Steve was the one Super Soldier that wasn't corrupt. I guess there was also Isaiah. I mean, he's angry at what the government did to him, but for good reason and he didn't turnaround and then become a terrorist because of it.

Precisely!
Zemo: Super soldiers are bad....the serum turns them evil
Bucky: Didn't happen to Steve.
Zemo: touché
Zemo: But there's no one like Steve Rogers.
Me: touché.
lol


I still feel like Walker isn't a bad guy. Aggressive, out-of-his-depth, and trying way too hard, but I can still kind of see where he's coming from. Can't really blame him for taking the Super Soldier serum either, even if it didn't end well.
I don't know...he knew damn well (before picking up the shield) that he'd have to go up against people with power or in this case super soldiers...he should have seen this coming.
But yeah he's got a short temper that's for sure. I'd like to know more about what happened to him and Lemar back in Afghanistan. They talked about it a bit, but I feel like ther's more to it.


Man, kind of surreal to think there was actual good stuff that came out of the Blip and more problems when people came back. Kind of reminds me of G.I's coming back after WWII.

You get the sense that Karli really believes in what she's doing, and there's sense and value in what she's doing, but she's really on the verge of becoming a Supervillain because she's just too radicalized. Like, that speech to Sam's sister, even if it was just bluffing, went way, way too far.

Well, the Doras sure stole the show. That had to be very emasculating for Walker.

Kind of interesting that Zemo hasn't outright betrayed anyone yet but obviously has his own endgame in mind and keeps slipping away to fulfill it. He's pretty much destroyed all the Super Soldier serum, so what's left other than the Flag-Smashers themselves? And will they actually manage to catch him? Because it doesn't seem like Wakanda is going to let him walk free indefinitely.

Man, poor Lemar/Battlestar. He gets beat up in most of his screentime, is Walker's sole voice of reason, and then his death by Super Soldier is what drives Walker nuts. Guy deserved better.

Welp, Captain America just murdered a guy in cold blood in front of a bunch of people. That's going to be a PR nightmare. John Walker in a rage has compromised both the shield and the uniform. And the dude he killed was a Cap fan too.

10char weird I have defo more than 10char but not according to CBR.

[Hypestyle]

Oh, good lord..

spoilers:

Fascinating to see the Doras in action. (sigh... rest in power, Mr. Boseman). Great to see a little more of Bucky being rehabilitated. This was another slow-burn episode. Great to see Sam attempting a more diplomatic solution at first. Karli is too far gone to fully sympathize with her. I guess it would help if we saw her origins. We still don’t know exactly how she even got hold of the super serums. Do we? (sidebar: Erin Kellyman is absolutely stunning. More high profile work needed for her!) I am very angry about Hoskins being killed. Extremely angry. (what did his stripes imply? Sergeant First Class E-7?) I thought for sure there would be a way for him to continue. I felt it was bunk early on in the series, for example, that he didn’t have his own helmet and shield. (Stop being cheap, Pentagon!) I don’t know how much a helmet would have protected him from that last wallop against a concrete column, but at least it would have been something. Considering the 1980s real-world controversial introduction of Hoskins as ‘Bucky’ (initially), and Dwayne McDuffie’s intervention which convinced Mark Gruenwald to rebrand him as Battlestar (the original comics had a cringe-worthy panel of Hoskins “new Bucky” mentioning having to take a class in remedial English, while Walker, well, didn’t...), I felt that this character should get a chance to last a good while in the MCU alongside Walker. When Walker palmed the (last?) remaining vial of the super-serum, I figured there would be a scene at the end where he turns it over to his superiors, and there’s the usual mysterious talk. I’ll have to rewatch the episode to be sure— I didn’t notice Walker bending any gun in the last fight. I figured the last outburst was just his rage based in part on his own war-regret and anger over the death of Hoskins. And of course, all of this was filmed by everybody around who had a cell phone? Well, I guess that's going on the Internet. There's only two episodes left, and each of them are likely to be around the same length. I don't know where this is going, but there's not much time left to deal with all this, it seems. Baron Zemo, the Flag Smashers, Morgenthau, the Power Broker, Walker, the Global Repatriation Council, etc. At the risk of being lurid— I wonder if at the end of the series, will there be a tag, where we see Hoskins’ frozen body laying in a stasis tube, and U.S. Army secret scientists are clearly planning to “do something” with him, based on the super-serum components that have been extracted from Walker’s blood (I suspect that Walker will be alive at the end of all this.)

end of spoilers

[Chris0013]

Oh, good lord..

spoilers:

Fascinating to see the Doras in action. (sigh... rest in power, Mr. Boseman). Great to see a little more of Bucky being rehabilitated. This was another slow-burn episode. Great to see Sam attempting a more diplomatic solution at first. Karli is too far gone to fully sympathize with her. I guess it would help if we saw her origins. We still don’t know exactly how she even got hold of the super serums. Do we? (sidebar: Erin Kellyman is absolutely stunning. More high profile work needed for her!) I am very angry about Hoskins being killed. Extremely angry. (what did his stripes imply? Sergeant First Class E-7?) I thought for sure there would be a way for him to continue. I felt it was bunk early on in the series, for example, that he didn’t have his own helmet and shield. (Stop being cheap, Pentagon!) I don’t know how much a helmet would have protected him from that last wallop against a concrete column, but at least it would have been something. Considering the 1980s real-world controversial introduction of Hoskins as ‘Bucky’ (initially), and Dwayne McDuffie’s intervention which convinced Mark Gruenwald to rebrand him as Battlestar (the original comics had a cringe-worthy panel of Hoskins “new Bucky” mentioning having to take a class in remedial English, while Walker, well, didn’t...), I felt that this character should get a chance to last a good while in the MCU alongside Walker. When Walker palmed the (last?) remaining vial of the super-serum, I figured there would be a scene at the end where he turns it over to his superiors, and there’s the usual mysterious talk. I’ll have to rewatch the episode to be sure— I didn’t notice Walker bending any gun in the last fight. I figured the last outburst was just his rage based in part on his own war-regret and anger over the death of Hoskins. And of course, all of this was filmed by everybody around who had a cell phone? Well, I guess that's going on the Internet. There's only two episodes left, and each of them are likely to be around the same length. I don't know where this is going, but there's not much time left to deal with all this, it seems. Baron Zemo, the Flag Smashers, Morgenthau, the Power Broker, Walker, the Global Repatriation Council, etc. At the risk of being lurid— I wonder if at the end of the series, will there be a tag, where we see Hoskins’ frozen body laying in a stasis tube, and U.S. Army secret scientists are clearly planning to “do something” with him, based on the super-serum components that have been extracted from Walker’s blood (I suspect that Walker will be alive at the end of all this.)

end of spoilers

Diamond is 1st Sergeant.
https://www.army.mil/ranks/

[gonnagiveittoya]

I think spoilers:

Hoskins will turn out to be alive, but paralyzed

end of spoilers

[CosmiComic]

I think spoilers:

Hoskins will turn out to be alive, but paralyzed

end of spoilers

I hope so. spoilers:

Doing otherwise in a show ostensibly concerned with racial issues to some extent could be in poor taste

end of spoilers

[ZeroBG82]

This was really good. A bit predictable, but really well done.

spoilers:

So this is finally the episode where we see exactly why Sam needs to be the one carrying that shield, and exactly why John Walker should never be allowed near it again. The sequence with Sam's conversation with Karli was so well done. Watching Sam try to connect, and reach the humanity he knows is still in her, while Walker just gets frustrated and loses all his patience because he wants to hit something. Walker thinks he needs to prove himself as Cap, except that need is corrupting his every intention and has now turned him into the monster he accused Karli of being. And the conversation between Karli and her now deceased Cap fan sidekick sets up perfectly for Sam to finally do what he should have done from the beginning. The opening scene with Bucky was beautiful. That moment means so much to the character, and I'm really glad we actually got to see it onscreen. I find it interesting that Sam explicitly called out Zemo on his intentions for Bucky. Because that's a damn good question. If super soldiers must die, then Bucky and Isaiah need to go to. Which would be a fantastic way for Zemo to finally betray Sam at the end of all this, and bring Isaiah back into the plot. Also, the perfect moment to debut Sam's Captain America outfit, because can you imagine Isaiah's reaction to that? Not sure if he'd be thrilled or pissed, but either way it would make for good television. Bucky's fate hangs in the air. What are they going to do with him? He should be Sam's partner, the Falcon to his Cap, as it were. But I'm not sure they want to keep the two bound together that way. I hope they do, the two characters just feel right working together (and if we add Sharon to the trio I think we've got ourselves a winner). Also, Zemo is awesome. I really don't need to say more than that. Chill Zemo is even more fun than driven Zemo. This episode did an excellent job of showing the differences between Zemo the spy and Sam and Bucky the soldiers. I hope he slides back into this one before all is said and done. So Sharon can track Walker via satellite. Did the government put a tracker on his Cap outfit the same way they did Sam's? Or did Sharon put a tracker on the shield before she gave it back to Steve back in Civil War? Either one works, but I feel like the latter pokes holes in Sharon's angst-y abandonment issues origin story, and maybe makes it more likely that she's not gone over to the dark side. I still think she's deep cover trying to out the Power Broker. A lot of things changed track this week. That final scene! What's next? Can you recover from brutally murdering a guy, in cold blood, with THAT shield while wearing Cap's uniform? I can't imagine that will be enough to bring Walker and Sam to blows, unless Walker blows his stack again. But that battle has to be coming. Who Will Wield the Shield?

end of spoilers