Falcon And Winter Soldier

[Ragu]

Endgame!Steve is also hella creepy. He and Peggy never actually were able to fully explore what it meant to have a relationship, so he spent a decade 10+ angsting about a woman who had moved on from him. He then created an alternate reality to go back to a point in time where she would be most amenable to him, which honestly is kinda icky when you consider power dynamics and the breadth of knowledge he had over Peggy's life. Could she make a fully informed decision in being with him? What happened to the Steve in the ice? Why would she pick Endgame!Steve -- who would honestly be a different person because almost none of us is the same person as we were 10 years ago -- over the person in the ice who is closer to her lived experience?

Always make me roll my eyes when he describes Peggy as the love of his life. He really is a simp (derogatory)

[Frontier]

Always make me roll my eyes when he describes Peggy as the love of his life. He really is a simp (derogatory)

I mean, MCU Peggy was an amazing woman...

[chicago_bastard]

It was never only about Peggy. Steve never really adapted to life in the 21st century, he wanted to live the life that was stolen from him in the times he truly belonged to.

[SlimJ87D]

One of my issues with CA:TWS was that they did not give Sam a longer fight with Rumlow before having to jump out the window. Could have shown Sam as more than a one trick pony with his gear.

Given the circumstances, it made sense Sam wouldn't be too great of a fighter. He was in the Air Force and focused more in aviation at the time. Rumlow was a black ops CGC and CGB fighter.

After joining the Avengers, it would make sense his H2H improved going from TWS to CIVIL WAR.

[Ragu]

I mean, MCU Peggy was an amazing woman...

Being an amazing woman doesn't give their existing relationship (or lack thereof) any more weight. Steve calling Peggy the love of his life is like a highschooler calling their junior prom date the love of their life.

It was never only about Peggy. Steve never really adapted to life in the 21st century, he wanted to live the life that was stolen from him in the times he truly belonged to.

Others have mentioned the historic and moral implications. Plus, in Civil War, Steve says he never fit in, even in the army.

[Alpha]

Hum, Steve was a super soldier with the personality we all know, and the face of Chris Evans. Cmon, does anyonw actually think Peggy wouldn't pick Steve over whoever else she could've married?

Now, as for Steve not getting over Peggy, I can understand why, she is the one that got away. But I agree that Time Travel wasn't the answer to his whole conflict. Steve should've moved on.

[chicago_bastard]

Others have mentioned the historic and moral implications. Plus, in Civil War, Steve says he never fit in, even in the army.

There are no historic and moral implications. We have zero clue what Steve has done in the new timeline other than marrying Peggy. He could have rescued Bucky from Hydra imprisonment, solved the racism issues and found a cure for cancer in that timeline, we just don't know it and so it doesn't make sense to claim his decision was morally contemptible.

[Ragu]

There are no historic and moral implications. We have zero clue what Steve has done in the new timeline other than marrying Peggy. He could have rescued Bucky from Hydra imprisonment, solved the racism issues and found a cure for cancer in that timeline, we just don't know it and so it doesn't make sense to claim his decision was morally contemptible.

Sure there are, you just don't want to think about them.

At the very least, there is the matter that there is already a Steve Rogers in the 1940s, frozen in the ocean. For Steve to marry Peggy, that other Steve had to stay out of the picture.

[Jewel Runner]

If you're going to claim there are a bunch of bad implications, actually bring them up.
Don't just got "there are because I say there is"

[Ragu]

If you're going to claim there are a bunch of bad implications, actually bring them up.
Don't just got "there are because I say there is"

I didn't bring them up because other posters already have.

One of the main issues with the ending is that there is already a Steve Rogers in the 1940s, frozen in the North Atlantic. Peggy wouldn't abandon that Steve Rogers, nor would all his friends of the era. So how come Peggy ended up marrying endgame Steve?

There's also the reality of 1940s/50s society; racist, misogynistic, etc. If people want to claim the 1940s "in the times he truly belonged to" then they should think of how that reflects on him.

[justanotherclassic]

I didn't bring them up because other posters already have.

One of the main issues with the ending is that there is already a Steve Rogers in the 1940s, frozen in the North Atlantic. Peggy wouldn't abandon that Steve Rogers, nor would all his friends of the era. So how come Peggy ended up marrying endgame Steve?

There's also the reality of 1940s/50s society; racist, misogynistic, etc. If people want to claim the 1940s "in the times he truly belonged to" then they should think of how that reflects on him.

Yes! This!

Beyond wanting to save him because he's stuck under the ice, Endgame Steve's actions basically imply that his life was so miserable in the future, he had no choice to but to create an alternate universe because that as the only way he could be happy and find peace. Why would anyone who knows Steve want to subject him to that?

Futhermore, if given the choice between Endgame!Steve -- who has lived an extra 10-15 years, and experienced a ton -- and the Steve in the ice who is only a couple years removed from her at most, why is she choosing the future guy? Think of the person you were 10-15 years ago. You've grown, developed, and changed because life an experiences change you. My own husband and I have been together for a decade, and while some core aspects have stayed the same, I'm not my 19-year-old me. I don't think our younger selves would necessarily go for our thirty-year-old selves, especially if our 19-year-old selves are right there.

I think a significant portion of accepting the Alternate Reality as Steve's happy ending partially has to ignore the Peggy as a character of it all. We know she moved on and could have a happy life without regrets. She explicitly told him that in TWS. I'm not totally convinced she would be happy or comfortable with Steve creating an alternate reality that also erases that happy ending, but it's difficult to fully quantify the weight of her choice. Can one make a fully informed decision about people you are told you loved and cherished if you never knew they existed?

As for your comment on '40s morality, yeah that's a fair point. Steve is choosing to go back to a time where the Civil Rights Act won't be passed for another two decades, not to mention the absolute rampant homophobia of the period. We hope we will fight against it, but it's a very different choice to live in it. One of my biggest sadnesses of the MCU is that we never actually see Steve react to the cultural progress society has made. We see him react to technological progress and discuss how the people traded one war for another, but never how society has progressed leaps and bounds from where he left in terms of freedoms afforded to minorities. We have ways to go, but it's still a BFD. If Steve went back to the 1945, it would still be another 9 years before Brown v. Board of Education.

[Frontier]

I think people are thinking about the implications far more than the writers did .

[Arsenal]

There’s also the possibility they didn’t have access to the tech needed to unfrost Steve in the 40s and wouldn’t for another couple decades.

[justanotherclassic]

I think people are thinking about the implications far more than the writers did .

I tend to like critical analysis and think things through. I enjoy discussing themes and implications of films. Honestly, one of the biggest reasons I struggle with Endgame's choices for Steve is because they completely undermine some of themes in TWS, my favorite MCU film, as well as my own personal connection to the story/character. The latter half, admittedly, is solely a me thing, but art resonates with everyone differently.

One thing I am honestly curious about is the handling of race and politics in FATWS, and if there will be any discussion about the era Steve chose to go back to a pre-Civil Rights act era. What does it say about politics, race, and culture when the previous Captain America chose to and preferred to live in that era? What level of privilege goes into that decision as a white, straight male? It's not someplace where Sam, his successor, could ever safely follow and be treated as an equal human being. I'm sure Sam would have complicated feelings on that. If my friend move to Saudi Arabia because that's the only place they could feel at home, I'd be happy they're happy, but also feel some kind of way that the only place they could be happy was a location where me people like me are treated as less than human and murdered.

[Jewel Runner]

Most of this doesn't actually sound like problems.
Steve only went back to the 40's because that's when Peggy was both alive and young, if you're at any point thinking he went back because he was fine with how minorities and women treated back then you don't certainly don't know who Steve Rogers is, especially when Steve wasn't even treated very well by people before getting the serum.
And you really can't tell me that Steve Rogers back in the 40's armed with certain knowledge of events, wouldn't be an active participant in things like the Civil Rights movement then there is no conversation to be had here at all