Falcon And Winter Soldier

[Frontier]

It is what it is. Now they are doing something with her and its intriguing. They are already so many cookie cutter former agents in this universe. I really like that they are doing something different with her

I mean, I wouldn't call Sharon cookie-cutter, but the Power Broker thing flies in the face of the integrity and courageousness I expect from the character.

But hey, I guess the MCU really needs more female villains, huh? I wonder whose next...Aunt May ?

I will never be ok with what they've done to Sharon, but I think I've accepted it at this point. The more I consider it, the more I see what I think they were going for.

She's the anti-Sam. Confronted with a world where she has to fight, every day, not just to be recognized or appreciated but just to feel safe and have the same opportunities that so many (you can read that "so many" as so many straight, white dudes, but it goes beyond that) take for granted. But unlike Sam, who looks to the fight and sees all the people that have been trampled and crushed beneath it and is therefore driven to carry on that fight not just for himself but in their honor, Sharon is broken by that world. She gives up. What does she owe the world? It's a broken, screwed up place that would eat her alive, spit her out, and bury her. Why fight to make that better? Why make that effort, face that struggle, risk that failure? It's far easier to just embrace the shitstorm and climb to the top of the steaming pile. And you crush or bury anyone who stands in your way, because they'd do it to you if they could.

Sharon is the one the struggle broke. The one who has chosen to leave the world behind, as she believes it has abandoned her. And in fairness, her belief is not irrational or unfounded.

Karli is an idealist who loses her way, and loses her soul in the process. But at heart she honestly meant well, and it's hard to argue that her underlying motivations aren't just even if her actions cross all the lines of propriety and leave her irredeemable in the end. She saw the struggle to make the world better, and she was more than willing to fight it. Too willing, as it turns out. She didn't have the patience to accept small victories, or gradual change. Only grand gestures and all or nothing, earthshaking transformation were good enough for her. She didn't want to progress the struggle, she wanted to win it forever. And that led her down a path that consumed her.

John was, and remains, entitled. Devoted to service, to doing all the ugly things that other people asked him to do in the name of keeping the world upright in the face of chaos. But he never had to face the struggle. Not really. And when he got a look at what that world looked like, when he ran into a world that wouldn't bend to him just because of the color of his skin, or the cut of his uniform, or the sheer weight of the government he represented he stumbled, he fell. He cheated, took the shortcut instead of doing the real work. Instead of earning the right to be Captain America, instead of confronting the challenges head on, he tried to take it by literal force of arms. To use physical strength to replace the moral fortitude and sheer, stubborn courage it takes to just stand up to the world every day, let alone try and change it. But he learns from his stumbles, gets back up, and goes back out there to try and do better. He may fail, he certainly isn't perfect. He already shows signs of backsliding, of forgetting the lessons he's learned, in his final scene debuting his new look. For John the struggle to make the world better is never going to be easy because he'll have to be reminded that it even exists, that he has advantages others don't. But still he carries on.

Even Zemo believes in helping the world change for the better. His view of better is arguably twisted, and his method unquestionably homicidal, but in spite of everything he has lost and everything he has suffered through, including both losing his family and spending nearly a decade in prison, he still wants to try and make the world a better place. We might not agree with his ideals, or his methods, but his convictions we can respect (and fear).

But Sharon has abandoned her convictions entirely. Her courage broken, her spirit crushed. She's become part of the wheel, grinding others down into the mud. She has given up any pretense of making the world a better place, of keeping it safe for others. She has become the kind of utterly selfish and faithless person she sees the rest of the world as being. All that's left is to get hers, by any means necessary.

Looked at in that light, she makes an interesting foil for Sam. Someone who he might try to save, once he realizes how far she is gone. But whom more likely needs to be stopped.

So she's basically Diamondback from Spencer's FalCap run (along with doing the bare minimum to justify the face-heel turn).

Karli was just a dumb kid in the end. Like Anarky without the actual intellect and ethics.

[CosmiComic]

I mean, I wouldn't call Sharon cookie-cutter, but the Power Broker thing flies in the face of the integrity and courageousness I expect from the character.

But hey, I guess the MCU really needs more female villains, huh? I wonder whose next...Aunt May ?

They have lots of female villains in the comics. The MCU hasn't done a good enough job with the female heroes

[Havok83]

I mean, I wouldn't call Sharon cookie-cutter, but the Power Broker thing flies in the face of the integrity and courageousness I expect from the character.

But hey, I guess the MCU really needs more female villains, huh? I wonder whose next...Aunt May ?

I think its apt. Former agents in the MCU are a dime a dozen. Maria Hill, AOS, Black Widow, etc... There was nothing about Sharon that stood out and she literally fit a very generic mold. What was worse for her is that she had no personality, zero chemistry with Steve and the only unique thing about her is that she is related to Peggy Carter. Simply being a part of her aunt's legacy isnt enough to make her work as a character.

Its too early to say she's a villian and that goes along with people only viewing things in terms of black or white. She definitely is being set up to be an antagonist but nothing about her comes across as evil (the word I saw tossed around earlier). Right now she is a morally gray character. She's not good or bad, but more in the middle and her future appearances will let us know how far they will go with her

They have lots of female villains in the comics. The MCU hasn't done a good enough job with the female heroes

Captain Marvel, Gamora, Wanda, Wasp, Valkyrie, Nebula, Okoye, etc....I think they've done a great job so far.

[Frontier]

I think its apt. Former agents in the MCU are a dime a dozen. Maria Hill, AOS, Black Widow, etc... There was nothing about Sharon that stood out and she literally fit a very generic mold. What was worse for her is that she had no personality, zero chemistry with Steve and the only unique thing about her is that she is related to Peggy Carter. Simply being a part of her aunt's legacy isnt enough to make her work as a character.

Its too early to say she's a villian and that goes along with people only viewing things in terms of black or white. She definitely is being set up to be an antagonist but nothing about her comes across as evil (the word I saw tossed around earlier). Right now she is a morally gray character. She's not good or bad, but more in the middle and her future appearances will let us know how far they will go with her

I mean, how could she stand out when they gave her the bare minimum of screentime? Black Widow even stole her white, Agent 13, Catsuit (and blonde hair in Infinity War).

Like, there is way more to Sharon Carter than being Peggy Carter's niece and dating Steve but they've utterly failed to capitalize on that. She's only generic because they didn't really adapt her that well.

Every Power Broker moment with her in the final episode came off villainous. She felt more gray before.

Captain Marvel, Gamora, Wanda, Wasp, Valkyrie, Nebula, Okoye, etc....I think they've done a great job so far.

I guess we could argue a quantity versus quality thing, but that's probably in the eyes of the beholder.

This reminds me of that scene in Endgame though .

[Havok83]

I mean, how could she stand out when they gave her the bare minimum of screentime? Black Widow even stole her white, Agent 13, Catsuit (and blonde hair in Infinity War).

Like, there is way more to Sharon Carter than being Peggy Carter's niece and dating Steve but they've utterly failed to capitalize on that. She's only generic because they didn't really adapt her that well.

Every Power Broker moment with her in the final episode came off villainous. She felt more gray before.

Thats why I said it is what it is. She had limited screentime but now they are finally doing something with her and she is standing out. The issue is that some just arent liking it. Without the twist, I do think she would still be generic. And I dont think the only problem before was her lack of screentime or the writing. Its on Emily VanCamp too, whom I find to be a bland actress. There have been small roles which stood out before bc of the actor but she never did. Im interested in the twist bc it was unexpected going into this series and it's potential, not necesarily bc of her

I guess we could argue a quantity versus quality thing, but that's probably in the eyes of the beholder.

This reminds me of that scene in Endgame though .

thats exactly what I was thinking of. To add to that, Marvel will be adding to its roster with the likes of She-Hulk, Ironheart, Ms. Marvel and of course Monica Rambeau all thanks to development thats originating on D+

[CosmiComic]

Captain Marvel, Gamora, Wanda, Wasp, Valkyrie, Nebula, Okoye, etc....I think they've done a great job so far.

They've done an ok job. But it took until 2019 to get a female led movie. Wasp is an original Avenger yet got fridged and replaced by her daughter who hasn't done a whole lit. And none have had near the screen time or focus the male ones have

[Frontier]

Thats why I said it is what it is. She had limited screentime but now they are finally doing something with her and she is standing out. The issue is that some just arent liking it. Without the twist, I do think she would still be generic. And I dont think the only problem before was her lack of screentime or the writing. Its on Emily VanCamp too, whom I find to be a bland actress. There have been small roles which stood out before bc of the actor but she never did. Im interested in the twist bc it was unexpected going into this series and it's potential, not necesarily bc of her

Yeah, but she's not standing out in a way that's properly representative of the character and if anything is presenting Sharon Carter with a bad image. A character can fit a certain archetype but still stand out and be interesting in my opinion.

So, really, what you're telling me is that on several levels the MCU dropped the ball with Sharon Carter.

thats exactly what I was thinking of. To add to that, Marvel will be adding to its roster with the likes of She-Hulk, Ironheart, Ms. Marvel and of course Monica Rambeau all thanks to development thats originating on D+

Hopefully more of these women will get to interact then what they got in Endgame.

[Immortal Weapon]

They've done an ok job. But it took until 2019 to get a female led movie. Wasp is an original Avenger yet got fridged and replaced by her daughter who hasn't done a whole lit. And none have had near the screen time or focus the male ones have

Getting fridged means she died but that didn't happen. Janet came back.

Marvel has been doing fine with their female characters. It seems people are looking for problems that ain't there because they didn't like this plot twist.

[CosmiComic]

Getting fridged means she died but that didn't happen. Janet came back.

Marvel has been doing fine with their female characters. It seems people are looking for problems that ain't there because they didn't like this plot twist.

They did bring her back, but she still hasn't done much.

I know viewpoints differ, but i don't think the female characters have been given as much attention as the male ones.

[Tien Long]

Just finished watching the episode. Overall, I was satisfied. One of the overarching themes, something that I think works really with Captain America, is the premise of ideas vs. ideas. It's not just Sam Wilson Captain America is fighting against the Flag - Smashers, but the idea of Captain America vs. cynicism, oppression, meeting things halfway, etc. The beauty of the show is that it didn't occur to me when Sam was giving the speech (though that was cool. I can see him exuding his Captain America-ness there). Instead it was when Sam was ducking and dodging gunfire from the helicopter. These moments occur in the most unexpected ways, which is cool.

In any case, the episode was cool. Sam was certainly the highlight for me and the show was a reminder of why he makes an awesome Cap. Said it before, Sam can do things that Steve can't. No, Sam doesn't have the Super-Soldier Serum, but he can fly and he has Redwing. Steve couldn't have gotten in an aerial dogfight with the Flag-Smashers the way Sam did. Sam throwing that shield in the air is pretty awesome.

As for Bucky, it was cool to see his own personal story get resolution. We knew it was coming from a mile away in episode 5. But to see it here in the episode 6 was cathartic.

As for Sharon, I thought the show was going to do a misdirect with her. She ending up being the Power Broker was obvious and I didn't think the show would go that way. And yeah, I thought it was a little sudden myself. I'll admit, it does open numerous possibilities.

I'm confused what John Walker is now. He just casually comes into the fight. I mean, it was cool to see him get some redemption. But he's just there, does his business, and walks away? No one stops him? Okay, so he's U.S. Agent. That's awesome! But is he working for Zemo now? If that's the case, how would the U.S. government tolerate that? It seems to be setting up the Thunderbolts down the line.

Anyway, think I'll rewatch the episode again. Some points still bothering me.

[Immortal Weapon]

They did bring her back, but she still hasn't done much.

I know viewpoints differ, but i don't think the female characters have been given as much attention as the male ones.

Janet came back at the end of the movie. Not like she had the time to get anything done.

[Hypestyle]

spoilers:

The deeper backstory to the Flag Smashers concerns had limited exploration during the series. Ideally, with a longer season, they might get a full episode of their own. At best we had to settle for inferences and verbal statements. Nonetheless, I’m not disappointed with the final resolution of things with Karli. I doubted that she would live, though I wanted her to live and go to jail. (and come back to wreak havoc somewhere). She definitely was directly responsible for the deaths of several folks. I wished that Sam had privately met with Ayo, to thank them for the new outfit and equipment. Maybe an oblique thank you to T’Challa. Sam: “Look, I’m sorry for that dustup over Zemo. I admire your king, for being not only the leader of your country but also a champion, a living symbol. I just wonder how long people here are going to let me get away being America’s symbolic champion. It’s never been easy, for people who look like me, to wear a uniform that represents the military, the police, anything of public service...” I’m disappointed that Sharon is apparently the Power Broker. Nonetheless, I’m intrigued, if Marvel sticks with this new outlook and agenda for her. Someone out there suggested that she may be a Skrull replacement. I suppose that’s one “out” that could be done in “Secret Invasion”. However, it would be even more intriguing if that were not the case, and MCU Sharon truly broke bad in this world. Keep her around as a political villainess. At least it gives the actress something to do besides be a plucky sidekick. I’m surprised that Walker was allowed to return to the government building to try out his new outfit. Clearly, De Fontaine has some level of federal government influence or an official role. Who is she under? DOD? A new version of SHIELD? CIA? FBI? SWORD? Something else entirely? I’m surprised that she didn’t mimic Stark’s line in the epilogue of Incredible Hulk where he says “we’re putting together a team…” I keep having to remember to separate her from Valerie Cooper, who if memory serves, was kind of similar back in the 80s and 90s. I presume that Sam was careful not to tell the federal government people (who exactly? Pentagon? Senate committee?) that Isaiah Bradley was still alive. But I guess he told them enough about his story to compel the Smithsonian to include the tribute exhibit. I wonder if the stuff about him being put in jail and experimented on is part of the text of the exhibit. The Martin Luther King museum in Atlanta doesn’t shy away from the state/federal government abuse that took place. I don't suppose that there's any tricky way of getting him his proper pension/back pay? Oh well... What did Howard Stark know about the Bradley situation and the short-lived soldiers after Rogers? What does Nick Fury know about Isaiah Bradley? What's his take, especially if he knew and never told anyone. I wanted more of a lengthy talk between Walker, Bucky and Sam, to clear the air. I guess it will have to be another day, if at all. Do Bucky and Sam still see him as a loose cannon? Hmm. I guess he'll get another simple steel shield, too. Or something more sturdy? Can't be vibranium anymore. I also wanted a lengthy talk with Bucky and the elderly man whose son he killed. Did the fellow “go off” on Bucky (deservedly)? Or was it something else? We may never know. It could have been more powerful to see someone react to Bucky not with pity or seeming forgiveness, but rage and bitterness. And Bucky would have to accept it. I would rather that Bucky have a final talking session with the counselor. Who knows, maybe there are some cut scenes that will make the light of day, somehow. Probably not in the immediate future.

end of spoilers

[CosmiComic]

Janet came back at the end of the movie. Not like she had the time to get anything done.

That's my point. She's a way more important character in comics than Scott Lang yet was considered expendable fo the most part.

But I don't want to derail the topic further.

[Godlike13]

This was cool. Liked the character arcs, and were they left them. Mackie does for Sam what Downey Jr. did for Tony. This is not a character I usually find compelling but found myself charmed by the character in this series. And with Bucky it was cool to see the other side of him. Wish we could have seen some more Winter Solider fight scenes though. But I guess that was kind of the point of his character arc. He’s not that killing machine anymore. The Wakanda connection was really cool too see also. I like that thats a thing. That scene where they had to see if they broke the Winter Solider programming was probably Bucky's best scene.

[Immortal Weapon]

spoilers:

The deeper backstory to the Flag Smashers concerns had limited exploration during the series. Ideally, with a longer season, they might get a full episode of their own. At best we had to settle for inferences and verbal statements. Nonetheless, I’m not disappointed with the final resolution of things with Karli. I doubted that she would live, though I wanted her to live and go to jail. (and come back to wreak havoc somewhere). She definitely was directly responsible for the deaths of several folks. I wished that Sam had privately met with Ayo, to thank them for the new outfit and equipment. Maybe an oblique thank you to T’Challa. Sam: “Look, I’m sorry for that dustup over Zemo. I admire your king, for being not only the leader of your country but also a champion, a living symbol. I just wonder how long people here are going to let me get away being America’s symbolic champion. It’s never been easy, for people who look like me, to wear a uniform that represents the military, the police, anything of public service...” I’m disappointed that Sharon is apparently the Power Broker. Nonetheless, I’m intrigued, if Marvel sticks with this new outlook and agenda for her. Someone out there suggested that she may be a Skrull replacement. I suppose that’s one “out” that could be done in “Secret Invasion”. However, it would be even more intriguing if that were not the case, and MCU Sharon truly broke bad in this world. Keep her around as a political villainess. At least it gives the actress something to do besides be a plucky sidekick. I’m surprised that Walker was allowed to return to the government building to try out his new outfit. Clearly, De Fontaine has some level of federal government influence or an official role. Who is she under? DOD? A new version of SHIELD? CIA? FBI? SWORD? Something else entirely? I’m surprised that she didn’t mimic Stark’s line in the epilogue of Incredible Hulk where he says “we’re putting together a team…” I keep having to remember to separate her from Valerie Cooper, who if memory serves, was kind of similar back in the 80s and 90s. I presume that Sam was careful not to tell the federal government people (who exactly? Pentagon? Senate committee?) that Isaiah Bradley was still alive. But I guess he told them enough about his story to compel the Smithsonian to include the tribute exhibit. I wonder if the stuff about him being put in jail and experimented on is part of the text of the exhibit. The Martin Luther King museum in Atlanta doesn’t shy away from the state/federal government abuse that took place. I don't suppose that there's any tricky way of getting him his proper pension/back pay? Oh well... What did Howard Stark know about the Bradley situation and the short-lived soldiers after Rogers? What does Nick Fury know about Isaiah Bradley? What's his take, especially if he knew and never told anyone. I wanted more of a lengthy talk between Walker, Bucky and Sam, to clear the air. I guess it will have to be another day, if at all. Do Bucky and Sam still see him as a loose cannon? Hmm. I guess he'll get another simple steel shield, too. Or something more sturdy? Can't be vibranium anymore. I also wanted a lengthy talk with Bucky and the elderly man whose son he killed. Did the fellow “go off” on Bucky (deservedly)? Or was it something else? We may never know. It could have been more powerful to see someone react to Bucky not with pity or seeming forgiveness, but rage and bitterness. And Bucky would have to accept it. I would rather that Bucky have a final talking session with the counselor. Who knows, maybe there are some cut scenes that will make the light of day, somehow. Probably not in the immediate future.

end of spoilers

Getting an exhibit for Bradley wouldn't out him at all. He used his pull to get the man the recognition he deserved. He didn't need to tell anyone he was still alive to accomplish that.