Netflix's the Sandman

[Anthony W]

Netflix goofed with the Death casting. It's painful watching Neil Gaiman do the "death has had a bunch of other forms" song and dance. Sure she did Neil, but how many of those other forms are on shirts, mugs, figures, etc?

None.

It's the second (some would argue that she is more popular than Dream now) character and to drop the ball that hard is truly something to behold. This is what you would call an unforced error. Unlike Marvel characters The Ancient One or The Mandarin the character didn't have any history that could be considered racist to deal with. Plus it makes Warner Brothers look like hypocrites when they are still selling all that death merch with the character as she appears in the comics. It's called commercial art for a reason.

[Agent Z]

You think it's an actual intentional thing, or just coincidence?

It is not exclusive to redheads. It has happened to numerous white characters with blonde or black hair. People just like to call it out for redheads while ignoring all the times in which a redhead character was played by a white person with brown, black or blonde hair.

[kcekada]

There is no doubt that a huge part of Death's appeal was her ironic appearance. Who would expect the grim reaper to appear as a sweet, attractive young lady? Plus the white skin/black outfit contrast is so iconic. That kind of imagery sells comics, but it's often left behind when it comes to the films, sadly.

[thwhtGuardian]

I don't get the teeth gnashing on the Death casting...maybe she got the part because she really nailed the audition just like Gaiman said? The acting ability is way more important than the look when it comes to live action.

[AndrewCrossett]

As with all new shows (aside from a few CBS procedurals), this show is being aimed at a millennial and Gen Z audience that values diversity much more than faithfulness to the source. It's mostly us old Gen Xers who care about whether Death looks like she did in the comics, because it's mostly Gen Xers who have even read the comics.

Programmers and marketers don't care about middle-aged people, and haven't for a long time.

[thwhtGuardian]

As with all new shows (aside from a few CBS procedurals), this show is being aimed at a millennial and Gen Z audience that values diversity much more than faithfulness to the source. It's mostly us old Gen Xers who care about whether Death looks like she did in the comics, because it's mostly Gen Xers who have even read the comics.

Programmers and marketers don't care about middle-aged people, and haven't for a long time.

I read the comics as they came out and I care more about the actress being good than if it looks like an image walked off the page...

While it's true that media is focused on the young rather than the middle aged, when the middle aged demographic opinion is, " I don't care that she's a very talented actress and had great chemistry with the other actors cast...she doesn't look like the illustration!" then that opinion rightfully deserves to be ignored.

[thwhtGuardian]

There is no doubt that a huge part of Death's appeal was her ironic appearance. Who would expect the grim reaper to appear as a sweet, attractive young lady? Plus the white skin/black outfit contrast is so iconic. That kind of imagery sells comics, but it's often left behind when it comes to the films, sadly.

Beauty of course is in the eye of the beholder but to me Kirby definitely looks both incredibly attractive and young and she's played sweet characters really well in the past so that checks that box.


And of course you can still get that black and white contrast...by dressing her in white to contrast her skin tone and as white often associated with death and mourning in a lot of places around the world it still fits symbolically as well.

[AndrewCrossett]

I read the comics as they came out and I care more about the actress being good than if it looks like an image walked off the page...

Both of those things can be true.

While it's true that media is focused on the young rather than the middle aged, when the middle aged demographic opinion is, " I don't care that she's a very talented actress and had great chemistry with the other actors cast...she doesn't look like the illustration!" then that opinion rightfully deserves to be ignored.

And is being ignored, obviously. Personally I don't have a problem with it or any of the other out-of-the-box casting choices on this production. My Sandman books are still there on the shelf where they've always been. I will watch this show, unless it sucks. This will cost them some viewers among older fans, and I'm sure they know that... but not many among the demographics they want.

[thwhtGuardian]

Both of those things can be true.



And is being ignored, obviously. Personally I don't have a problem with it or any of the other out-of-the-box casting choices on this production. My Sandman books are still there on the shelf where they've always been. I will watch this show, unless it sucks. This will cost them some viewers among older fans, and I'm sure they know that... but not many among the demographics they want.

Both can, sure, but if after spending decades fending off bad adaptations of his work the actual author of the book says this person was the best choice for the roll than that means something.

I really don't think it will cost them viewers from actual fans, older or younger though. The core themes were all about change and accepting people for who they chose to be and that identities are choices, so if you were a fan then those are things you understand and values you must have internalized...and those values and ideas aren't compatible with the criticisms of this casting so it's just logical that people upset by casting a talented black woman as death ≠ actual fans of the comic, and that's not gate keeping, it's just a basic statement of fact. It's like saying you're a fan of Black Panther but espousing racist beliefs, the one just doesn't fit the other.

[CosmiComic]

It is not exclusive to redheads. It has happened to numerous white characters with blonde or black hair. People just like to call it out for redheads while ignoring all the times in which a redhead character was played by a white person with brown, black or blonde hair.

That's what I thought.

[j9ac9k]

Would people be okay with it if they digitally bleach her skin chalk white?

[AndrewCrossett]

Both can, sure, but if after spending decades fending off bad adaptations of his work the actual author of the book says this person was the best choice for the roll than that means something.

Yep. I'm a big advocate of letting The Storyteller tell the story the way he wants, and people can like it or not. Gaiman is one of the few creators with enough fandom clout to do that.

Kind of odd that all the Endless were depicted as Caucasian (more or less) in the comics. NG would probably do it differently if he was writing them today.

[Frontier]

It is not exclusive to redheads. It has happened to numerous white characters with blonde or black hair. People just like to call it out for redheads while ignoring all the times in which a redhead character was played by a white person with brown, black or blonde hair.

But is there another such one-to-one where it's always redheads getting race-bent with black actors?

Because if we're talking hair color accuracy, that's a whole 'nother beast.

Yep. I'm a big advocate of letting The Storyteller tell the story the way he wants, and people can like it or not. Gaiman is one of the few creators with enough fandom clout to do that.

Kind of odd that all the Endless were depicted as Caucasian (more or less) in the comics. NG would probably do it differently if he was writing them today.

I don't think the intention was for them to be Caucasian but ethereal and pale.

[Anthony W]

I read the comics as they came out and I care more about the actress being good than if it looks like an image walked off the page...

While it's true that media is focused on the young rather than the middle aged, when the middle aged demographic opinion is, " I don't care that she's a very talented actress and had great chemistry with the other actors cast...she doesn't look like the illustration!" then that opinion rightfully deserves to be ignored.

Got that right, look at the bang up job Netflix did with Jupiter's Legacy. Oh wait, it was canned after one season? Get ready for a wild ride.

[blinkingblah]

I understand that death can be of any color or race. The thing that makes me angry is that death was a icon in the '90s. Every teenage girl who didn't fit in had a poster of death on her wall. Not only that but this could have been a major change in pop culture and fashion. If it was done right. Instead they made an iconic white character black to fulfill the terms of diversity on set. I just wish the would have used ANY of the other brothers or sisters to fulfill this quota. This missed opportunity is almost on par with Scarlett Johansson as Major in ghost in the shell. IMO.