What Would A Batman/Wonder Woman Marriage Look Like?

[SiegePerilous02]

I've noticed most WW fans here HATE him, even though as you said she's paired with Superman just as often if not more. She pretty much became evil in the Injustice games soley to follow Superman around like a lost puppy. Despite that her pairing with Batman in the DCAU is somehow treated like it was worse and gets shit on way more.

I wouldn't say most WW fans here hate Batman in general.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, which you don't seem to listen to, there are many versions of Batman over the years. Not all are going to click with fans when they are pushed a certain way.

And I wouldn't give Marvel a pat on the back for using less popular characters more, they pretty much had no choice. When you don't have access to your top characters like Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four you kind of have to use the likes of Ant-Man. Let's not pretend they wouldn't have just done a bunch of Spider-Man and X-Men/Wolverine spinoff solo films had they had their rights from the jump.

They probably would have, but it's pointless to argue about because that's not how reality turned out. In reality, Marvel dominates cinemas with their initially less popular characters to the point where they can make a movie about anyone and have it be at least a modes success, if not a smash hit. DC had access to their entire catalogue and are completely clueless as how to consistently take advantage of that, and it's pathetic.

You seem to put down Batman more because Batman beat your fav in a fight. Its such a petty reasoning while in terms of characterization, it was being associated with Supes that go against the concept of her character. Why didnt Injustice make WW on the side of good guys? Well because they were pushing her as a love interest for Supes and Supes was the main bad guy in that universe.

Being paired with Batman, at least the modern one, goes aganinst the concepts of her character as well. Nothing good has ever come of being romantically paired with either of them, and Batman beating her in a fight is far from the only reason.

And seriously, do you think him pulling out a magic anti-lasso out of his ass for one story and it will never be seen again is good writing? It's something a child would come up with.

[Gaius]

You seem to put down Batman more because Batman beat your fav in a fight. Its such a petty reasoning while in terms of characterization, it was being associated with Supes that go against the concept of her character. Why didnt Injustice make WW on the side of good guys? Well because they were pushing her as a love interest for Supes and Supes was the main bad guy in that universe.

I "put down" on Batman more because this is a thread about Batman and Wonder Woman. As I've listed off plenty of reasons of me not caring for WW or Batman to be involved with one another. I don't have much positive things to day about Wonder Woman's interactions with Superman these days either between stuff like Kingdom Come, Injustice, or DCeased.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe being a jobber for Bruce to beat up and than morally lecture to isn't better than being arm candy for Superman.

[SiegePerilous02]

Bruce Timm paired up Wonder Woman with Batman because he thought it would be more interesting than Superman.

The fact that it didn't occur to him that she didn't need to be paired with either of them is the big problem. It was trading one problem with another.

[prepmaster]

I don't know why it's so hard to believe being a jobber for Bruce to beat up and than morally lecture to isn't better than being arm candy for Superman.

In the case of Injustice, you cant simply blame WW's bad potrayal solely on Batman. Your reasoning is for WW being evil in that universe is for Batman to beat up his former friend, creating more angst and drama in the story. Basically a Batman vs Justice League story. Its not that simple. WW was evil also because Supes the main guy was evil and WW and Supes were pushed as a couple. Flash, Lantern became good guys later on.

In the case of being a jobber in other fights in comics, the problem lies in the writing to make the fight more believable. Batman didnt just beat her up straight h2h.

[Gaius]

In the case of Injustice, you cant simply blame WW's bad potrayal solely on Batman. Your reasoning is for WW being evil in that universe is for Batman to beat up his former friend, creating more angst and drama in the story. Basically a Batman vs Justice League story. Its not that simple. WW was evil also because Supes the main guy was evil and WW and Supes were pushed as a couple. Flash, Lantern became good guys later on.

In the case of being a jobber in other fights in comics, the problem lies in the writing to make the fight more believable. Batman didnt just beat her up straight h2h.

I'm not solely blaming Batman, I focus on him because this about Batman and Wonder Woman. The developers favoritism of Batman has just as much to blame for that portrayal of Diana has it does pushing the Superman/Wonder Woman romance. They wanted a contrived universe centered around a Batman vs. Superman fight and were happy to toss Diana under the bus to get one.

No one forced them to have them make her a jobber for Bruce to beat twice, just like no one forced them to make her sole motivation wanting to bang Clark. Supes and Bats get equal blame there.

And to bring it back closer to the thread topic like Siege said, being paired with modern/post-Miller Bruce goes just as much against her character as it does Clark.

[Sacred Knight]

I've noticed most WW fans here HATE him, even though as you said she's paired with Superman just as often if not more. She pretty much became evil in the Injustice games soley to follow Superman around like a lost puppy. Despite that her pairing with Batman in the DCAU is somehow treated like it was worse and gets shit on way more.

And I wouldn't give Marvel a pat on the back for using less popular characters more, they pretty much had no choice. When you don't have access to your top characters like Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four you kind of have to use the likes of Ant-Man. Let's not pretend they wouldn't have just done a bunch of Spider-Man and X-Men/Wolverine spinoff solo films had they had their rights from the jump.

DCAU tends to get shit on more, yes, but there's a reason for it. Look, full disclosure that most already know, I like SM/WW. This is in contrast to plenty of Superman fans I like a lot and value their opinion, but its okay to disagree. I fully get the problems it entails from a point of view of franchise crossovers, and Diana being overshadowed because Superman is generally more popular. Those things are two similar issues with the Batman pairing. But I do think in general their dynamic is much better and from a pure point of view of emotions, fares WW a lot better. So I have a natural, innate bias. But I can at least attempt to see others POV and respect them.

That out of the way, I hate Injustice too, however the reason the DCAU one is considered worse, at least by some of us, is that for as bad as Injustice is its an Elseworld. Its intended to be basatardized versions of these characters. Doesn't mean I have any desire to consume it but I know what it is. Dystopia, all heroes break bad in one way or another. DCAU Wonder Woman as a legitimate attempt at a "canon" WW, for lack of a better term. So its going to be judged by a different metric.

[Nite-Wing]

A cynical person would point out its likely even though WW is an evil arm candy shell of her former character following Supes down the irredeemable rabbit hole in the Injustice universe. She is still with Supes and that to some WW fans would be a better fate than being shipped with Batman in any context.
Irony the biggest example of Supes and Wondy together in all mediums is them being evil villains but let WW ever show any attraction to Bruce and she's basically become an angst sponge for Bruce

It would be better if the complex about Batman was applied for all popular characters

I'd be hilarious to see Aquaman or Flash fans have to actually defend the bad things those characters do all the time and not just get to chalk it up to bad writing and ignore it

[Gaius]

A cynical person would point out its likely even though WW is an evil arm candy shell of her former character following Supes down the irredeemable rabbit hole in the Injustice universe. She is still with Supes and that to some WW fans would be a better fate than being shipped with Batman in any context.
Irony the biggest example of Supes and Wondy together in all mediums is them being evil villains but let WW ever show any attraction to Bruce and she's basically become an angst sponge for Bruce

It would be better if the complex about Batman was applied for all popular characters

I'd be hilarious to see Aquaman or Flash fans have to actually defend the bad things those characters do all the time and not just get to chalk it up to bad writing and ignore it

I don't know why it's so hard for some Bat-fans to understand not liking pairing her with Bruce doesn't mean liking pairings of her with Superman or that it excuses the poor decisions of Superman writers when it comes to her but here we are.

[prepmaster]

Irony the biggest example of Supes and Wondy together in all mediums is them being evil villains but let WW ever show any attraction to Bruce and she's basically become an angst sponge for Bruce.

Batman favoritism argument doesnt even make sense when in that universe the Flash and Green Lantern became good guys later on. Everything must be blamed on Batman.

[TheBatman]

It depends on which version of Batman.

I think Pre-Crisis and Morrison Batman could do alright with Diana. It wouldn't be a perfect union, but it'd be stable enough.

Diana wouldn't marry the Batjerk iterations of the character to begin with, unless she was essentially forced to.

[SiegePerilous02]

I view Diana/Clark as the lesser of two evils when paired against Diana/Bruce, but both are not ideal.

I also don't get the belief that disliking the Diana/Bruce pairing means giving an automatic pass to Diana/Clark and all the bad stuff that's been done with it. Saying the latter is a bit better than the former is damning with faint praise as far as I'm concerned.

It depends on which version of Batman.

I think Pre-Crisis and Morrison Batman could do alright with Diana. It wouldn't be a perfect union, but it'd be stable enough.

Diana wouldn't marry the Batjerk iterations of the character to begin with, unless she was essentially forced to.

Yeah, it really depends on the version. Morrison's Batman was much more likable than other post-Crisis takes, but I feel like even he has too much baggage to be a natural fit with Diana (especially if we're factoring in Arkham Asylum and that Bruce's hang ups with women stemming from his mother's death).

My stance generally is that if we're dealing with pre-Crisis Batman, he easily makes sense as a close friend to Diana. Because he's more driven by compassion and love of adventure than pure "vengeance" 24/7. I think both would be closer to Clark than either are to each other, at least at first, but they'd be close. Maybe to the point where they'd casually hook up in a "friends with benefits" sort of dynamic, but nothing beyond that. I think they'd drive each other nuts in a serious romance, and both know that so wouldn't want to ruin a good thing they have by trying. This would probably be the dynamic they could have in the DCAU if they didn't drop the ball so hard on the Diana side of things.

But Frank Miller style Batman? It barely makes sense for her to tolerate him as an ally.

[Nite-Wing]

Ulterior motives aside nobody has really said why Bruce would be so unpalpable to Diana outside of bad writing clouding their understanding of the character. I mean if you can't tell the difference between Batjerk and the many instances of bad writing and a well written Batman anymore then you aren't a fan and should have no say on the matter imo

somehow Clark became is the lesser of two evils?
Its like people ignore every single bad depiction of WW that was precipitated by a romance with Clark. Every bad future has them together can't be a coincidence right?
Complain about Wonderbats all you want and say its not your thing but I can at least accept she'd never go evil while in a relationship with Bruce
Anytime she's been in a relationship with someone other than Steve I think the grand conflict of the relationship has been Diana being so weak morally and ethically that she can be influenced to be evil. Not a good look for her character

[Gaius]

Ulterior motives aside nobody has really said why Bruce would be so unpalpable to Diana outside of bad writing clouding their understanding of the character. I mean if you can't tell the difference between Batjerk and the many instances of bad writing and a well written Batman anymore then you aren't a fan and should have no say on the matter imo

somehow Clark became is the lesser of two evils?
Its like people ignore every single bad depiction of WW that was precipitated by a romance with Clark. Every bad future has them together can't be a coincidence right?
Complain about Wonderbats all you want and say its not your thing but I can at least accept she'd never go evil while in a relationship with Bruce
Anytime she's been in a relationship with someone other than Steve I think the grand conflict of the relationship has been Diana being so weak morally and ethically that she can be influenced to be evil. Not a good look for her character

People have explained why Bruce is unpalpable to Diana in terms of his both in-universe character and out-of-universe how DC views the two.

Some just don't like the answers.

[TheBatman]

Ulterior motives aside nobody has really said why Bruce would be so unpalpable to Diana outside of bad writing clouding their understanding of the character. I mean if you can't tell the difference between Batjerk and the many instances of bad writing and a well written Batman anymore then you aren't a fan and should have no say on the matter imo

Well, it's good that you have no authority on who is a fan and no authority on who should have a say on any matter.

[Alpha]

Ulterior motives aside nobody has really said why Bruce would be so unpalpable to Diana outside of bad writing clouding their understanding of the character. I mean if you can't tell the difference between Batjerk and the many instances of bad writing and a well written Batman anymore then you aren't a fan and should have no say on the matter imo

somehow Clark became is the lesser of two evils?
Its like people ignore every single bad depiction of WW that was precipitated by a romance with Clark. Every bad future has them together can't be a coincidence right?
Complain about Wonderbats all you want and say its not your thing but I can at least accept she'd never go evil while in a relationship with Bruce
Anytime she's been in a relationship with someone other than Steve I think the grand conflict of the relationship has been Diana being so weak morally and ethically that she can be influenced to be evil. Not a good look for her character

Regardless of how abusive and controlling Bruce usually is, he just doesn't know how to enjoy life. Diana loves to feel boundless joy and clear shinning beauty. Doesn't mean she can't appreciate other things, but it's what drives her. Bruce doesn't have that in him. Steve Trevor is good human being whose utter decency and commitment she appreciates. I still dont think he would necessarily be the love of her life, but I'm okay with the emphasis usually placed on him since he was her first contact with the outside world and the person that probaby helped her handle the disappointments the most.