The Return of Val Zod

[leo619]

As a big fan of Val Zod, I always saw Val Zod as the Miles Morales potential for the DC universe. He started off great under the original writer of Earth 2, Taylor, before getting massacred by the writer of World's End.

Yet the potential is there, and with Miles Morales being the second third minority superhero to be getting a solo movie from the Marvel Universe (Blade and Black Panther being the first 2), there's so many things that point to the possible potential IF DC actually tried and use it.


1) The Krypton TV Show. The krypton tv show highlights the Zod family being black, which falls right in line with the Earth 2 Universe where the Zod's were also black. The main difference of course is that the Earth 2 universe Zod's parents were pacifist, while the tv show definitely cater towards more towards the anti-hero, villain area. Still, television and movies normally play a major influence in comics (and vice versa) and with the positive reviews surrounding Krypton, it can definitely be used as a spring board for Val Zod himself.



2) Black Superman Tweet Turns Viral. Comic Book reported a tweet of a cosplay dressed up as superman that went completely viral.

https://comicbook.com/dc/2018/09/11/...l-photo-shoot/


13k retweets and 50k likes, there were tons of positive comments talking about how it was about time there was a black superman.
And people get it. Heroes is in many ways about wish fulfillment. Superman represents among the very best of heroes, among the
strongest, among the fastest, among the toughest, and strives to do the right thing always. Most of DC's/Marvel black heroes
range between street level to mid tier, with the highest created from DC perhaps being John Stewart the green lantern. Val Zod
allows a black hero to be at the upper echelon of strength and power, while his pacifistic nature shows a side that's rarely seen
for black heroes in comics. (The only black hero I can think of like Val Zod is Gentle from Xmen). This is the perfect opportunity
for DC to capture on what a market is clearly craving.




3) Michael B Jordan reported being considered for Superman.

With Henry C. possibly leaving the DCEU, rumors came quick of Michael B Jordan as well as the actor Ricky Whittle of possibly being Superman.
This makes a lot of sense seeing as Michael B Jordan and the cast of Black Panther are considered golden at the moment, and the WB has already indicated they are really big on Michael B Jordan, even to the point of initiating the inclusion program. If we recall, the reason Miles Morales came to fruition is due
to Glover wanting to be Spider Man and was denied. Bendis realized it was important to create a spider man so that others could feel like they too could become Spider Man, and from that came the biggest new hero created this century (Miles Morales). With many across the internet definitely looking for the idea of a black superman, the likelihood of Michael B Jordan being Kal El is limited (Possible but limited.) But it's this same behavior that sent Miles Morales to stardom, and it could be DC's chance to strike gold with Val Zod.



All together, these points clearly illustrate a desire to finally bring a black superman to the forefront, and DC already has the tools necessary with Val Zod.
Combine that with Bendis working in DC, who was the primary architect responsible for creating two of the biggest new heroes in the Marvel Universe (Miles and Riri), literally all the cards are there for Val Zod to work.

[DragonPiece]

It would be cool for sure, but I can't help but think DC is trying to get that earth 2 out of people's minds right now as they build up the Rebirth Earth's JSA.

[Sacred Knight]

I found Val-Zod boring as hell. If they're going to do stuff with a black Superman, I'd rather it be Calvin Ellis. I'm not as high on him as some are, but at the same time I found him a lot more fun and intriguing than Val.

[Gurz]

I have never read Val Zod. I like the elseworld's president Superman of Grant Morrison though. He's cool. He was teaming up with Captain Carrot and other elseworld's guys in Morrison Superman or something like that the last time i saw him... I like that he has a little knowledge about the elseworlds that there are other supermen of other world's paralel to his world and stuff. I would like to see him more rather than Val Zod...may be i like Val Zod as well, if i read about him but i don't dig earth 2... I like JSA of prime earth alongside with JLA and stuff.

[leo619]

It would be cool for sure, but I can't help but think DC is trying to get that earth 2 out of people's minds right now as they build up the Rebirth Earth's JSA.

But that's one of the main problems. The television and movie medium is going the complete opposite direction as DC's Rebirth. The general market is demanding for diversity while DC is slowly turning things back to the 1960's. Marvel was in a similar boat before Bendis and Miles came in. Before them, Marvel couldn't get a stable selling minority series to sell for almost a decade, then Bendis stroke gold which changed the current Marvel Universe. So DC needs to take a hard look at themselves,
because only focusing on a rebirth earth JSA is only going to get you a back to basics approach that would primarily just suffice the classic comic book fandom.
But bringing in Val Zod and the diversity of the new Earth 2 book as well would provide the much needed approach of capturing both audiences.

Besides, Earth 2 wasn't a panned series at all until World End's began. Before that arc/writer, the Earth 2 series (as well as the series where Val Zod was introduced and became superman) had solid sales.

[leo619]

I have never read Val Zod. I like the elseworld's president Superman of Grant Morrison though. He's cool. He was teaming up with Captain Carrot and other elseworld's guys in Morrison Superman or something like that the last time i saw him... I like that he has a little knowledge about the elseworlds that there are other supermen of other world's paralel to his world and stuff. I would like to see him more rather than Val Zod...may be i like Val Zod as well, if i read about him but i don't dig earth 2... I like JSA of prime earth alongside with JLA and stuff.

Oh I enjoy Calvin Ellis as well. And I definitely wouldn't mind reading more content with Calvin Ellis in it. But people are missing is the key aspect Val Zod has over Calvin Ellis, and that's the expansion into other mediums such as television and movies.

As much as I like Calvin Ellis, there's little to no chance of him getting a tv show or movie, primarily because he's kal el but from a different universe. While being the president of the united states gives him a little leeway, this is remove by the fact that he's the exact same character in an entirely different universe. So the chance of seeing him in a Justice League Cartoon, Movie, Supergirl Movie, etc is limited to none because he cannot expand.

That's not the case for Val Zod because he shares the same advantage as Miles Morales. He's a different person from a different universe. And his mythos are still tied heavily into the "traditional" main hero counterpart. As such, when expanded into cartoons and movies, he can co-exist with Clark Kent. They may run into difficulties while doing this (Miles portrayal in some of the cartoons have been far from pleasant) but it's this promotion into the mainstream medium that help sparked the spider verse movie we're seeing this December.

So Calvin Ellis may be a good book to read, but he lacks the ability to expand into the mainstream medium. Val Zod can follow the same legacy as Miles Morales which again will cause DC gold, and as the mainstream medium becomes more and more important (Hello Wally West), all the ducks are literally in a row.

[Vordan]

Val-Zod sucks and the thought of Taylor making money makes me ill. Besides it’s not happening, Superman will just be tossed to the wayside. They should do Calvin Ellis or Sunshine Superman if they actually decide to go down that route.

[Ascended]

I find President Superman (Calvin Ellis) infinitely more interesting than Val Zod. The only interesting thing about Val was that he was a pacifist trying to make it in a fighting man's world. And that's interesting, don't get me wrong, and I'm glad Val has his fans. But if we're gonna do a "black Superman" then President Superman seems the best option to me. Especially if you wait another few years for Obama nostalgia to really set in.

But that's one of the main problems. The television and movie medium is going the complete opposite direction as DC's Rebirth. The general market is demanding for diversity while DC is slowly turning things back to the 1960's.

I hate that this gets mentioned as often as it does. Because from what I've seen, this isnt on DC. At least not completely. DC has tried. In 2011, DC launched several titles with female and PoC leads. We had several characters running around who were gay (or bi, or what have you). And a lot of those titles were pretty solid books. Some of them were truly great. But where were the sales? Where were the people crying out for diversity and proper representation when DC was actually offering it?

DC did it again with DCYOU. Not only did we have several books with women and PoC, but we had a wide range of tones and sub-genres, as DC attempted (once again) to break into the indie crowd with books like Prez (female protagonist). Where were the sales?

It really does not matter what the movies or tv shows do. Those serve a completely different audience with different wants and it's been proven that movie/tv success does not trickle down into comic book success (from the evidence and studies I've seen anyway, and yes there are one or two exceptions; outliers happen). When a big movie hits, the floppies see a tiny spike for a month or two. Trades see a slightly larger spike for a few months. That's it. It really doesn't amount to much at all. Movie synergy serves an audience that largely does not exist and fails to bring in the potential fans it seeks.

DC tried expanding its lineup with the representation we say we want. They've been trying for years. But the fans are the ones who aren't putting their money where their mouth is. It appears that most people read DC for the familiar, comfortable names like Batman and Superman, not the great new characters like Sideways or Jaime Reyes. I blame DC for a whole lot of things and often question their business sense, but the failure of diversity isn't really one of them. Sure, it could be argued that DC could have tried harder, that they dropped the ball with important minority characters like Static (and gods, did they ever drop the ball with him!) but at best that puts the blame on DC for a small handful of books, not for every book starring or co-starring a minority character that couldn't find the sales it deserved.

EDIT: It's actually not dissimilar to the New Coke phenomenon. Coke was losing market to Pepsi and blind taste tests were leaning Pepsi, so Coca-Cola launched New Coke. And in blind tests, people liked New Coke more than Coke. Yet the public rioted because Coke had changed the classic. DC is the Coke of comics; it's not as fashionable as the competition and it doesn't cater to the younger crowd as easily, but consumers don't seem to want it improved or changed because of the status it holds as "the original."

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I would much rather see a politically-charged story about Calvin Ellis AKA President Superman than Val Zod, who never did much for me.

There's a lot more potential in the story of an alien being with godlike powers being raised on Earth as human and slowly rising up to become the World's Greatest Hero while also secretly running for political office to help on another level than whatever convoluted nonsense the New 52 Earth-2 concept had to offer.

[Armor of God]

Calvin Ellis in a multiversal Superman film would rock. The Steels are cool as well and are capable of holding their own show of film. Val Zod on the other hand was a bore fest in a terrible franchise and I never understood why they called him Zod seeing as he had no relation nor interaction with actual Zod character.
Oh and lets stop comparing every new Black character with Miles. John Henry existed before Miles and held his own solo and starred in major stories such as 52 and the Reign of the Supermen + Return of Superman before Miles and Val were ever thought of. Batwing also had a book before Miles, the only difference is that Miles had a creator with a lot of clout who kept him going. Miles real test begins now.

[marhawkman]

I always found Lor-Zod to be more interesting.

[Username taken]

Calvin Ellis in a multiversal Superman film would rock. The Steels are cool as well and are capable of holding their own show of film. Val Zod on the other hand was a bore fest in a terrible franchise and I never understood why they called him Zod seeing as he had no relation nor interaction with actual Zod character.
Oh and lets stop comparing every new Black character with Miles. John Henry existed before Miles and held his own solo and starred in major stories such as 52 and the Reign of the Supermen + Return of Superman before Miles and Val were ever thought of. Batwing also had a book before Miles, the only difference is that Miles had a creator with a lot of clout who kept him going. Miles real test begins now.

I love the concept of a Multiversal Superman.

[JAK]

Here's an interesting concept...

Get a set of people to work on two versions of two characters: Say, Val-Zod and Thomas Wayne from one Earth, and another set on Calvin Ellis and Wonder Woman or something. Put two out a year, rotating teams, and let each keep telling the story of the universe they're given. THEN, do a huge crossover that spans 2 years and four films.

It'd probably fall flat on it's face, but it'd certainly be interesting and could be really good...

[leo619]

[QUOTE=Ascended;3901101]I find President Superman (Calvin Ellis) infinitely more interesting than Val Zod. The only interesting thing about Val was that he was a pacifist trying to make it in a fighting man's world. And that's interesting, don't get me wrong, and I'm glad Val has his fans. But if we're gonna do a "black Superman" then President Superman seems the best option to me. Especially if you wait another few years for Obama nostalgia to really set in.

I hate that this gets mentioned as often as it does. Because from what I've seen, this isnt on DC. At least not completely. DC has tried. In 2011, DC launched several titles with female and PoC leads. We had several characters running around who were gay (or bi, or what have you). And a lot of those titles were pretty solid books. Some of them were truly great. But where were the sales? Where were the people crying out for diversity and proper representation when DC was actually offering it?

DC did it again with DCYOU. Not only did we have several books with women and PoC, but we had a wide range of tones and sub-genres, as DC attempted (once again) to break into the indie crowd with books like Prez (female protagonist). Where were the sales?

It really does not matter what the movies or tv shows do. Those serve a completely different audience with different wants and it's been proven that movie/tv success does not trickle down into comic book success (from the evidence and studies I've seen anyway, and yes there are one or two exceptions; outliers happen). When a big movie hits, the floppies see a tiny spike for a month or two. Trades see a slightly larger spike for a few months. That's it. It really doesn't amount to much at all. Movie synergy serves an audience that largely does not exist and fails to bring in the potential fans it seeks.

DC tried expanding its lineup with the representation we say we want. They've been trying for years. But the fans are the ones who aren't putting their money where their mouth is. It appears that most people read DC for the familiar, comfortable names like Batman and Superman, not the great new characters like Sideways or Jaime Reyes. I blame DC for a whole lot of things and often question their business sense, but the failure of diversity isn't really one of them. Sure, it could be argued that DC could have tried harder, that they dropped the ball with important minority characters like Static (and gods, did they ever drop the ball with him!) but at best that puts the blame on DC for a small handful of books, not for every book starring or co-starring a minority character that couldn't find the sales it deserved.

EDIT: It's actually not dissimilar to the New Coke phenomenon. Coke was losing market to Pepsi and blind taste tests were leaning Pepsi, so Coca-Cola launched New Coke. And in blind tests, people liked New Coke more than Coke. Yet the public rioted because Coke had changed the classic. DC is the Coke of comics; it's not as fashionable as the competition and it doesn't cater to the younger crowd as easily, but consumers don't seem to want it improved or changed because of the status it holds as "the original."

Oh I have and will never state that this was entirely on DC. To place the blame entirely on DC would be completely inaccurate due to the DC fanbase being so resistant to diversity to begin with, But to ignore all the issues that has happened with DC's attempt at diversity would also be asinine. So let's clarify a few things.

- DC's New 52 and DCYou was filled with fantastic creative ideas, but was plagued with many failed executions. So let's not pretend that DC was knocking it out the park when it came to good writing books. There were good books for sure, but there were definitely some bad books as well.


- Even with that, the New 52 was not a failed experiment by any means. The only reason it's assumed so is the classic fanbase attempting to drown out anything regarding New 52 as just horrible. On the other hand, Rebirth is the "return to greatness" that classic fandom and classic media has revolved around. But if people actually examine the sales of Rebirth currently and you compare it to the same time frame of New 52 sales, you will see that Rebirth is only a little better. No where near the amount that people attempt to claim for it to be a full on success. And yet when news came out of a possible Crisis coming out, people were shocked. They shouldn't be, just like anything else, the comic book market is crashing. Rebirth, like the new 52 before it, was a way to give it a temporary boost so they can keep the lights on. But unless they bring in new demographic that they desperately need (and reverting back to the classic approach clearly isn't doing it.) you will continue to see reboots and refreshes and events. So the New 52 wasn't a failure, it's just given that look. Essentially it's the DC's case of the last jedi. I'm pretty sure the next star wars movie will sell better, and I'm not even a fan of the last jedi, but I would never state it's wasn't a success like my within the star wars fandom claim. The same applies to the new 52.


- Even more so, Marvel has proven it can be done, when before they had the exact same problem as DC did. However, they went at it a completely different way. Unlike DC, who tried to use mostly already existing characters and place them to a fanbase who already was complaining about diversity, they temporarily replace their characters with diverse counterparts and made sure to get advertisement within the mainstream medium. When Miles Morales was first introduced, he was getting mainstream media attention all over. Shortly after, this forum got filled with so racists it was chaos. But what happened? Miles Morales was formed, and was the beginning of that generation and has become a great success. Mighty Thor was selling better than her odinson counterpart, X23 as wolverine was selling very well, Ironheart became a success, and marvel went from a company that could only sell white males to having many successful books to choose from. DC, on the other hand, decided to try and listen to many within their fanbase who state "the right way." and better way for diverse successes is creating new characters with high tier creative team behind them. Dan Didio even made that remark. What happened? Crashed right in their face, because that line is primarily only used just to keep diverse properties out of the books that they are reading. Many did not have any interest of reading diverse properties. It's essentially a line to deflect the situation. Hence the whole "folks didn't put the money where their mouth was." As such, with Marvel not only proving success with classic properties but also with new properties, that should be more than enough for DC to realize the opportunity is there if they decided to put full on effort and follow a method similar to Marvel. I personally don't think fully replacing the characters is needed, but I do think putting close to the amount of effort in these legacy characters as Marvel did with ANAD is needed to give these characters a much greater chance for success.

[leo619]

Calvin Ellis in a multiversal Superman film would rock. The Steels are cool as well and are capable of holding their own show of film. Val Zod on the other hand was a bore fest in a terrible franchise and I never understood why they called him Zod seeing as he had no relation nor interaction with actual Zod character.
Oh and lets stop comparing every new Black character with Miles. John Henry existed before Miles and held his own solo and starred in major stories such as 52 and the Reign of the Supermen + Return of Superman before Miles and Val were ever thought of. Batwing also had a book before Miles, the only difference is that Miles had a creator with a lot of clout who kept him going. Miles real test begins now.

Um, who's comparing every black character to Miles Morales. I'm surely not, so that comment is ridiculous and isn't needed needed here. With that said, let's get one a few things straight.


1) We're talking about current times, not past times. After all, Spawn had a movie, was the best selling book, toys, video games and more. And where is he now? Where is Steel now? Where is Batwing now? Now where is Miles now? Exactly.


2) There is no "real test" for miles. Miles has already reached stardom. The fact that Sony ended their E3 presentation for their Spider Man Demo showing Miles should illustrates that, or the fact that his Young Adult Novel Book was a Best Seller, or the fact that he's the third black superhero from Marvel to get a movie, or the fact that he's in every spider man cartoon.


3) Only Val Zod can really be compared to Miles Morales, because he's the only one that fits close to the same formula as Miles Morales performed.
Batwing had a completely different power set, originally working in a completely different country and had almost none of batman original villains.
He was associated with Batman by mostly name, symbol only. Steel is a little closer, he actually replaced Superman due to Superman dying. But he
was one of four, again had none of the power sets, and mostly just had a connection with Clark. His interaction with the superman mythos was again
limited.

The thing that brought Miles to Stardom was the fact that he had similar costume, he replaced spider man of that world, and the most important parts (besides good writing and art of course) was that he possessed spider man's power set (plus a few added powers to boot) and he was completely enriched in the spider man mythos WHILE still having his own. He found many of Spider Man's villains, had close relationships with Gwen, Spider Woman, etc, and yet still had his own parents and villains
he fought.

That's what Val Zod shares. Val Zod has the same power set, replaced Superman from the Earth 2 universe, formed close relationships with Lois Lane and was dating/close with Power Girl, and has a very similar costume with a unique and awesome color scheme. He literally has almost all the pieces that Miles had that turned him into a success. The only thing missing, is that creative and advertising push from DC. With that, DC can and would have their answer to Miles Morales.


So let's get that straight, if there's others comparing black heroes to Miles Morales, that's on them. But that's not me, the only hero that shares all the traits that makes Miles Morales a success is Val Zod.


With that said, I'm not knocking Calvin Ellis, I would love to have that book release as well. (And it's asinine to me that so many people are thinking it has to be a one or another, like somehow we both characters can't be published at the same time.) But in terms of capability of success, Val Zod is the closest to Miles Morales in order to replicate that same formula.