So, Should We Expect a Lot More Superman in the Snyder Cut of Justice League?

[SuperCrab]

MILD SPOILERS (Couldn't fit that in the subject line due to space limitations) for the upcoming Synder cut of the film, major spoilers for the several year old theatrical movie you've probably already seen.

10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1

So, for those who haven't heard, the original director of Justice League, Zack Synder, who was replaced by Joss Whedon before the movie was finished production (The version with Whedon's revisions is what was shown in the theaters and has been available to this point in other media), was given a (rather large) budget to rework the movie back to his original vision and beyond (I'm hearing this is like a 4 or 5 hour film now and may be structured as a mini-series) for HBO Max, a Netflix-like streaming service, and will re-debut sometime in March.

One thing I've heard is that Superman will be shown in a black suit ala the one he was brought back to life in after Doomsday killed him in the comic books. I'm not clear on whether that's only for additional scenes (If he's in any), or if they are actually using CGI to replace his suit across the board so that we never see him in his blue suit in the movie's present.

Has anyone heard anything in terms of how much of the additional footage involves Superman? Should we expect it to now be a much more Superman-heavy movie, or are they just adding Superman bits here and there while mostly focusing on other characters?

One thing I didn't like about the original film was how little Superman there was in it. I mean, Superman being dead in the movie continuity at the start of a film will do that, and they did work in a nice little bit of of "archival news footage" or an "old YouTube video" at the beginning from before his death to make sure it wasn't just him appearing to knock some heads together towards the end, but still, I think it could have used a lot more Superman.

[Adekis]

Just comparing the runtimes, Zack Snyder's Justice League is going to be four hours long, twice the length of the two hour Justice League 2017. Also, allegedly a huge amount of JL17 was reshoots, something like 60 or 70% of what made it to screen.

Keeping those numbers in mind, I'm fairly confident there will be more of everyone, just based on how it times out, if nothing else.

I always thought the shortened runtime was the biggest actual weakness of JL17.

Now because so much of JL17 was reshoots, we basically don't have a fully coherent sense of how different the original arcs might have been, until ZSJL comes out. I'm not sure how happy I'll be with the final product, regarding Superman. After all, I really liked what we got of him in the theatrical cut, and I wanted more of that specifically. It's very clear to me that that isn't what ZSJL is going to be. But... that's okay. I liked Man of Steel too, obviously, and while I never thought the two takes were anything less than fully contiguous, a different trajectory for our boy CK will hopefully still satisfy, especially given that I'm expecting more of Lois and Martha as well.

That said, I do have one major concern.

We know that Zack has set up a "dark future" timeline wherein Superman was brainwashed and working for Darkseid, while Batman was basically Mad Max until Superman hunted him down and killed him. I basically expect to see more of that in flash-forwards. However, if the story actually ends still aggressively on that trajectory, with Lois fridged and Clark brainwashed and evil, I'm going to feel betrayed. As this is potentially the last time we'll ever get to see Cavill and Adams as Superman and Lois, I desperately hope we get a respectful send-off.

[Vordan]

The basic plot of the movie will be the same, Superman will be dead for the majority of the film until he gets revived. Most of the new Superman scenes will be about him being tempted to turn evil as foreshadowing for Snyder’s initially planned JL sequel where he would end up joining Darkseid. There will be more scenes set in the Knightmare timeline as well. If you liked the last two movies characterization of Cavill’s Supes you will enjoy this, but if you didn’t this is not going to win you over. I’m expecting a total dumpsterfire to be honest, hopefully this marks the end of Cavill and Snyder’s era on Superman.

[Yoda]

The Lois being killed, and others in the Justice League being killed, with Superman turning evil were scrapped before Snyder started filming his cut. That was from an earlier draft of the script they dropped after BvS got such a lackluster reception. It was never going to be in the "SnyderCut" to begin with.

If you look at the original quote all that came out of:

When this movie came out, understand that Chris Terrio and I had finished the script to Justice League before BvS came out. Some people didn't like the movie. A vocal minority. So they said 'there's a lot of stuff we don't want you to do' so we did a rewrite from that script. So the original Justice League script, we didn't even shoot. The really scary version. Because we were really nervous after the response.

He makes clear that the "SndyerCut" script he was shooting from before leaving had already cut all that out. We're still going to the Wonder Woman beheading Stephanwolf and his head rollling into a boom tube to Darkseid apparently though.

[SiegePerilous02]

I was under the impression the evil brainwashed Superman and dead Lois were going to be foreshadowed in whatever this film was originally going to be, and be in either film # 4 or 5. He had a 5 film arc, right? Or was that definitively scrapped?

I expect this will have more Superman than the theatrical cut. Whether it will be good or not is a different story, and probably depends on how invested you are in Snyder's Superman to begin with. I expect this will be Snyder unleashed in a way even BvS ultimate cut wasn't, so any enjoyment I get out of this will likely be of the "so bad it's good" variety.

[Vordan]

The Lois being killed, and others in the Justice League being killed, with Superman turning evil were scrapped before Snyder started filming his cut. That was from an earlier draft of the script they dropped after BvS got such a lackluster reception. It was never going to be in the "SnyderCut" to begin with.

If you look at the original quote all that came out of:



He makes clear that the "SndyerCut" script he was shooting from before leaving had already cut all that out. We're still going to the Wonder Woman beheading Stephanwolf and his head rollling into a boom tube to Darkseid apparently though.

Nah Snyder wasn’t abandoning that plan. Peep the trailer, they talk about how Lois is “the key” aka Lois is what determines whether or not Superman is good. Snyder’s plan was still to eventually get to the Knightmare timeline, he just kicked it down the road. JL2 was supposed to be Superman’s fall and JL3 would be Batman saving the day by going back in time to prevent Lois’ death.

Oh and Clark was going to name his kid after the guy who plotted to murder him in cold blood at their first meeting, which is just phenomenally idiotic.

[SiegePerilous02]

Oh and Clark was going to name his kid after the guy who plotted to murder him in cold blood at their first meeting, which is just phenomenally idiotic.

This is just so batshit insane. It'd be questionable even if we were dealing with a universe where Bruce and Clark had a long history of being close friends. In this, while they come to terms, they are nowhere near that close.

Even weirder would be Lois going along with it

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I am sure there's going to be plenty for fans who hated Snyder's earlier films to be upset about, but since Geoff Johns was riding herd on him during the entire production, it likely won't be as outrageous as it was originally intended

Personally, I approach the films like this: this is an alternate timeline that Snyder's Doc Manhattan has been tinkering with in order to "fix" Superman. That way, my nerd brain can enjoy all the cool stuff whilst explaining away all the nonsense that doesn't work.
f431b43182e95b459729fa573801d721.jpg

[The Frog Bros]

This is just so batshit insane. It'd be questionable even if we were dealing with a universe where Bruce and Clark had a long history of being close friends. In this, while they come to terms, they are nowhere near that close.

Even weirder would be Lois going along with it

Well played.

I am sure there's going to be plenty for fans who hated Snyder's earlier films to be upset about, but since Geoff Johns was riding herd on him during the entire production, it likely won't be as outrageous as it was originally intended

Personally, I approach the films like this: this is an alternate timeline that Snyder's Doc Manhattan has been tinkering with in order to "fix" Superman. That way, my nerd brain can enjoy all the cool stuff whilst explaining away all the nonsense that doesn't work.
f431b43182e95b459729fa573801d721.jpg

I wonder what effect Manhattan had on the Superstache?

But yeah, the extended cut is certainly not going to change anyone's opinion on the Snyderverse. Personally I'm not expecting much at all, but if nothing else I am curious to see what the black costume Supes looks like.

[kingaliencracker]

Nah Snyder wasn’t abandoning that plan. Peep the trailer, they talk about how Lois is “the key” aka Lois is what determines whether or not Superman is good. Snyder’s plan was still to eventually get to the Knightmare timeline, he just kicked it down the road. JL2 was supposed to be Superman’s fall and JL3 would be Batman saving the day by going back in time to prevent Lois’ death.

Oh and Clark was going to name his kid after the guy who plotted to murder him in cold blood at their first meeting, which is just phenomenally idiotic.

It's difficult to know until Snyder's version comes out what plan he was going with given the restrictions he was under following the response to Batman v Superman.

Initially, Snyder's Justice League plans were for it to be multiple parts but by the time he actually began filming it WB had already dictated it would be one film. This came on the heels of the news that the original multi-film drafts were scrapped due to lukewarm response to BvS and that Snyder's JL would be a standalone film (no continuing parts). With that, I have a hard time believing that the harsher elements planned (Knightmare, Superman-gone-rogue) will be in Snyder's cut outside of hints or teases because they likely weren't filmed. I also have to believe that Snyder's film will have a more conclusive ending akin to Whedon's cut, also due to WB's oversight.

Also worth mentioning that much of the JL plot was reworked not only because of response to BvS but also due to significant similarities to what Marvel had planned with Infinity War and Endgame. This was why Darkseid was sidelined and references to him in BvS substantially reduced in the theatrical cut.

So we'll see. I personally feel that putting Snyder in charge of the DCEU more or less derailed it because the dude has a hideously dark view of superheroes. But I also am curious to see his finished film.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I wonder what effect Manhattan had on the Superstache?
.

"I relate to him more."

Also, Doc Manhattan is a huuuge Tom Selleck fan..

[Gaius]

Well with four hours there will be more of everything so by default, yes.

I am sure there's going to be plenty for fans who hated Snyder's earlier films to be upset about, but since Geoff Johns was riding herd on him during the entire production, it likely won't be as outrageous as it was originally intended

Personally, I approach the films like this: this is an alternate timeline that Snyder's Doc Manhattan has been tinkering with in order to "fix" Superman. That way, my nerd brain can enjoy all the cool stuff whilst explaining away all the nonsense that doesn't work.
f431b43182e95b459729fa573801d721.jpg

Way Supes’ cape covers over Manhattan’s face looks like he’s wearing a COVID mask.

[Adekis]

The Lois being killed, and others in the Justice League being killed, with Superman turning evil were scrapped before Snyder started filming his cut. That was from an earlier draft of the script they dropped after BvS got such a lackluster reception. It was never going to be in the "SnyderCut" to begin with.

If you look at the original quote all that came out of:



He makes clear that the "SndyerCut" script he was shooting from before leaving had already cut all that out. We're still going to the Wonder Woman beheading Stephanwolf and his head rollling into a boom tube to Darkseid apparently though.

Yeah, so that's true, that wasn't filmed back in 2017. They took that out.

However, Snyder is definitely doing some things that weren't going to be in his version of JL17, most obviously the black suit, but also with regard to all the new photography I guess he's shot last year. We do in fact know that there will be more of the "Knightmare" timeline from BvS, we just don't know how. I'm really hoping that they're still not going for the Fridge-and-Brainwash, but I don't think it's impossible that he could have decided to bring those elements back.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Yeah, so that's true, that wasn't filmed back in 2017. They took that out.

However, Snyder is definitely doing some things that weren't going to be in his version of JL17, most obviously the black suit, but also with regard to all the new photography I guess he's shot last year. We do in fact know that there will be more of the "Knightmare" timeline from BvS, we just don't know how. I'm really hoping that they're still not going for the Fridge-and-Brainwash, but I don't think it's impossible that he could have decided to bring those elements back.

Since we all know Snyder likely has plenty of extra footage of Henry Cavill glowering menacingly, looking sad, distraught, and/or constipated, so, if he wanted to tease his original plan of having Superman get taken over by the Anti-Life Equation due to the murder of Lois, he certainly could do so that in the second Knightmare sequence.

[Flash Gordon]

Probably a ton more, yeah. There might be similar story beats to the Frankenstein'd theatrical release, but this will be a totally different movie altogether.