If Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman are the Trinity, who is #4?

[prepmaster]

Just because a character is mishandled to the point of cancellation doesn't mean it's not a popular character. Just means they need to step back and let the damage fade from memory a bit before bringing the book back.

I dont buy that arguement. When the sales of comics tanks too much, they would have to find a new writer to replace the current one just like how Tynion came to replace King on Batman. Aquaman isnt that much of a moneymaker so they allow the sales to tank to the level of cancellation.

[HsssH]

I don't think that anyone is arguing that Aquaman is on Batman's level.

[Alpha]

I dont buy that arguement. When the sales of comics tanks too much, they would have to find a new writer to replace the current one just like how Tynion came to replace King on Batman. Aquaman isnt that much of a moneymaker so they allow the sales to tank to the level of cancellation.

What's happening to Aquaman isn't very different from what happened with WW in the 80s.

[TheRay]

Him

Green Arrow might be able to claim otherwise.

[The True Detective]

Then why is Wonder Woman n°3?

If it was based off popularity she probably shouldn't be tbh. I'm not so sure she's even DC's 3rd most popular character, imo Joker, Harley, the mantle of Robin and Flash are more popular than her. And because of his $1b movie Aquaman isn't too far behind her either. 10 years ago GL was pretty close to her level of popularity too. Up until her movie I feel she was more iconic than a character who the general public really knew about and liked.

The Trinity in terms of just popularity is Batman, Joker and Superman. Harley would be a not too distant 4th, you could make an argument for her being as popular as Superman but with the huge amounts of his shirts I see people wearing on a daily basis plus his legacy of being extremely popular for over 80 years I'll give him the edge.

The Trinity in terms of in universe importance is Batman, Superman and a revolving door depending on the year, but it's usually whoever the main Flash or Earth GL is.

You guys are arguing over who's 4th while I'm sitting here thinking "is Wonder Woman even really the 3rd...?" I understand her historical importance and impact and how popular she is but I don't think she's top 3 in popularity, iconic status or in universe push and importance. Robin, Catwoman Lex, Joker and Lois are just as if not more famous and iconic. Flash and Aquaman aren't too far behind and I think Harley probably has more fans despite being a little less famous and not as iconic.

The only certain thing here is that Batman and Superman as solo properties (so I'd exclude Robin, Joker and Harley despite their massive fan bases) are the only concrete no doubt about it pillars DC has.

[Alpha]

In terms of recognizability Wonder Woman easily beats Flash and Aquaman all over the world. Just think of Halloween costumes for kids and adults. Joker and Harley got a pretty good boost, but those are people who have seen their movies.

But out of people that haven't seen any of those movies or tv shows, Wonder Woman clearly beats any other character aside from Sup Bat and Robin (maybe). That's recognizability. Wonder Woman is in 3rd place because DC wants to promote itself as gender equal and they know that people who don't care about comics tv or movies only know those 4 characters, Sup, Bat, Robin and WW.

Aquaman edges out Flash in terms of recognizability because there are a lot more pop culture references with his image (not just name, image) and because he got tons of ads on tv and internet and posters all over the world as of the success of his movie, and all of them said "Aquaman"

[The True Detective]

In terms of recognizability Wonder Woman easily beats Flash and Aquaman all over the world. Just think of Halloween costumes for kids and adults. Joker and Harley got a pretty good boost, but those are people who have seen their movies.

But out of people that haven't seen any of those movies or tv shows, Wonder Woman clearly beats any other character aside from Sup Bat and Robin (maybe). That's recognizability. Wonder Woman is in 3rd place because DC wants to promote itself as gender equal and they know that people who don't care about comics tv or movies only know those 4 characters, Sup, Bat, Robin and WW.

Aquaman edges out Flash in terms of recognizability because there are a lot more pop culture references with his image (not just name, image) and because he got tons of ads on tv and internet and posters all over the world as of the success of his movie, and all of them said "Aquaman"

Robin and Joker are easily more famous than Wonder Woman it wasn't too long ago where casual fans were calling her Superwoman. Prior to her movie there were a surprising number of people who don't know her. What do you mean Joker and Harley costumes are only brought by people who've seen their movies? Wonder Woman's Halloween costume and general merchandise sales skyrocketed after her appearances in BvS and her own film. Clearly a lot of people who brought her costume mostly did so because of her movie.

I think Flash is just as famous as Aquaman, he's THE fast superhero, he was Sheldon on The Big Bang Theory's favorite superhero and he'd often wear Flash t-shirts. Many of them in bold letters would say the Flash on them, and TBBT was one of the most watched TV shows of the last 15 years. That's not even adding Flash's own very popular show and appearance in Justice League, Injustice 1 and 2 and a bunch of cartoons.

[Shimbo]

Robin and Joker are easily more famous than Wonder Woman it wasn't too long ago where casual fans were calling her Superwoman. Prior to her movie there were a surprising number of people who don't know her. What do you mean Joker and Harley costumes are only brought by people who've seen their movies? Wonder Woman's Halloween costume and general merchandise sales skyrocketed after her appearances in BvS and her own film. Clearly a lot of people who brought her costume mostly did so because of her movie.

I think Flash is just as famous as Aquaman, he's THE fast superhero, he was Sheldon on The Big Bang Theory's favorite superhero and he'd often wear Flash t-shirts. Many of them in bold letters would say the Flash on them, and TBBT was one of the most watched TV shows of the last 15 years. That's not even adding Flash's own very popular show and appearance in Justice League, Injustice 1 and 2 and a bunch of cartoons.

Except neither Joker or Robin have the same cultural relevancy. We're talking about a character whose iconography permeates the world. The lasso, tiara, the bracelets, her Invisible Jet, the bullet deflecting are all character specific by speaking to aspects and themes of the character that are also aesthetically memorable and have been here since 1941. Neither Joker/Robin have been the center of a cultural movement in any way similar to what happened when Wonder Woman graced the front page cover of Ms. magazine in 1972 and they both rely upon a setting and world not created for them, but for the franchise head. Who the hell calls Wonder Woman Superwoman haha? I seriously doubt Joker and Robin are more famous than Wonder Woman. It's just so not possible.

Popular? Sure. Those characters may be liked more, but they are certainly, definitely not more famous than Wonder Woman and neither character has the ideas, characterization, aesthetic design or depth that Wonder Woman had under Charles Marston and H. G. Peter. It's a testament to DC's utter ineptitude and lack of balls that she isn't more popular and well-liked, but Wonder Woman is the 3rd most famous DC character. Maybe in a world exclusively populated by men, but DC has an IP that gives them direct access to a huge demographic and market: girls and women. It's why DC historically fought so hard to keep the Wonder Woman rights from the Marston estate. Not for the comic sales, but all the money they make off her in every other related industry that isn't the cesspool of the direct market and the antiquated newsstand.

[Restingvoice]

I Am Number 4

Sorry
I have to
Carry on
Already gave my answer a few posts back
It's Robin
Not up to debate

*nyooms out*

[stargazer01]

I definitely don't think Robin or Harley are more famous and loved than Wonder Woman. WW has proven to be a solid franchise over the decades. She used to sell very well in comics in past decades, and her show and movie did great and solidified her iconic status. She also sells a lot of merch right now. At least I see a lot of women wearing her shirts lately. I've never seen anyone wearing a Robin or Harley shirt. Only Harley costumes on Halloween. Never a Robin. I know they have fans, but WW is more loved in my experience. She actually empowers many girls and even some boys it seems. Harley's own movie proved her fanbase is smaller than WB thought.

Aquaman had a very successful movie, and his mythos is pretty unique and vast, but he has yet to prove how big his fanbase really is. He is well-known, but is he very loved? Not sure.

I think The Flash has more fans easily, as his show has proven and his comics. I'm pretty sure a well made movie would be a big hit. Sadly, Flashpoint won't be a clear indication of his own popularity since Batman seems it will be front and center..

[SiegePerilous02]

Wonder Woman gets the #3 spot because she's the only other franchise lead to survive the transition from the Golden Age to Silver age without publication ceasing. Joker and Robin are iconic and popular, but they are extensions of Batman, not solo leads. Popularity is different from iconography, in terms of being a recognizable icon I don't know that Robin is bigger than her outside of the US. Even if they don't know much about the character, they recognize her by the costume and gimmicks.

Other characters parodically surpass her in popularity, but their own 15 minutes aren't indefinite (see GL). She has more cultural impact and can live up to her potential when WB actively tries (which they hardly ever do).

[Nite-Wing]

Green Lantern is definitely more popular than WW imo
Even now Diana's side of the DCU can only barely support 1 book or two about her adventures and her supporting cast is limited and messy whereas GL can support many and encompasses the entire cosmology of the DCU
If people keep making concessions for popular characters and attributing their success to Batman then we need to stop calling it a trinity and more like a kingdom
Batman is the King
WW and Superman are given a lot of credit for being old characters like Batman but in the grand scheme of things they have not really close to being as popular as him let alone incorporating other popular characters into their narratives.

That's why Batman and Green Lantern have strong franchises. Even with all the fan drama weighing GL down currently its broken more new popular characters than WW has ever managed in her entire history
Aquaman, Flash , WW they are very one hero at a time. There's never been a point where Dianna has sort of lifted up a Donna or Cassie. Yara Flor is going to be the first time she has ever had to support another character being elevated alongside herself.
Even Superman shock to behold when Supergirl was airing with her own show his fans fell into the same trap that messes up lesser characters all the time

Batman though everyone eats more or less. In fact the argument with Batman is that his characters get too much influence and focus
Joker, Harley Quinn, etc
You can argue even right now a lot of characters under the bat umbrella have surpassed WW in popularity

[Alpha]

Robin and Joker are easily more famous than Wonder Woman.

Robin probably is yes. I never said anything against people calling robin the 4th.

Wonder Woman's Halloween costume and general merchandise sales skyrocketed after her appearances in BvS and her own film. Clearly a lot of people who brought her costume mostly did so because of her movie.

I agree that movies increase Halloween sales, but Wonder Woman beat Flash long before she had a movie.

I think Flash is just as famous as Aquaman, he's THE fast superhero, he was Sheldon on The Big Bang Theory's favorite superhero and he'd often wear Flash t-shirts. Many of them in bold letters would say the Flash on them, and TBBT was one of the most watched TV shows of the last 15 years. That's not even adding Flash's own very popular show and appearance in Justice League, Injustice 1 and 2 and a bunch of cartoons.

All that people saw in Tbbt was the logo. They didn't actually see his suit or him using his powers. Whereas despite his bad popularity, Aquaman's images and powers appeared in quite a few tv shows that had nothing to do with Super heroes and had memes all over the internet long before his movie.

[MadFacedKid]

There was actually a episode in which Sheldon was fully dressed up in the Flash suit and running real fast. I don’t think a couple episodes from the Big Bang Theory compare to the success of Aquaman’s film regardless.

[MadFacedKid]

Green Lantern is definitely more popular than WW imo
Even now Diana's side of the DCU can only barely support 1 book or two about her adventures and her supporting cast is limited and messy whereas GL can support many and encompasses the entire cosmology of the DCU
If people keep making concessions for popular characters and attributing their success to Batman then we need to stop calling it a trinity and more like a kingdom
Batman is the King
WW and Superman are given a lot of credit for being old characters like Batman but in the grand scheme of things they have not really close to being as popular as him let alone incorporating other popular characters into their narratives.

That's why Batman and Green Lantern have strong franchises. Even with all the fan drama weighing GL down currently its broken more new popular characters than WW has ever managed in her entire history
Aquaman, Flash , WW they are very one hero at a time. There's never been a point where Dianna has sort of lifted up a Donna or Cassie. Yara Flor is going to be the first time she has ever had to support another character being elevated alongside herself.
Even Superman shock to behold when Supergirl was airing with her own show his fans fell into the same trap that messes up lesser characters all the time

Batman though everyone eats more or less. In fact the argument with Batman is that his characters get too much influence and focus
Joker, Harley Quinn, etc
You can argue even right now a lot of characters under the bat umbrella have surpassed WW in popularity

“Can support many”?
How are you going to say Batman and Green Lantern have strong franchises and leave Superman’s name out of the mix I think the Super line of titles usually have more books out then the GL line does