If Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman are the Trinity, who is #4?

[SecretWarrior]

We're due for a Planet Flash storyline in which the Justice League sends the Flashes off to space to avoid another time-travel disaster.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

We're due for a Planet Flash storyline in which the Justice League sends the Flashes off to space to avoid another time-travel disaster.

lol, right? the Hulk has always been seen as the ultimate superhero "flight risk," but between Flashpoint and heroes in Crisis, Bruce Banner has nothing on Barry Allen and Wally West.

[Jim Kelly]

I never was a big fan of this whole "Trinity" angle (I'm not especially religious, but if I were that would kind of offend me). I just think it's a way to promote characters that the publisher wants to promote--and especially Wonder Woman. I like Wonder Woman--but I'm not sure making her depend on Batman and Superman is the way to gain fans.

So from that perspective, I would guess if there was a fourth--it would be another character that they want to promote. Probably a woman, since they want to give the appearance of fairness. Harley is certainly a character they want to push, but they would probably pick someone on the same moral level as Bruce, Clark and Diana. They're supposed to be paragons of super-hero do-gooding. Vixen seems to fit the bill--brings more diversity to the group and represents comic books outside the Super, Bat and Wonder franchises.

Vixen doesn't have the track record to be elevated to that level. But I don't think that's how they decide these things.

[Killerbee911]

I would say Teen Titans go to the movies just off the top of my head... and he didn't appear but he was still a presence in Batman V. Superman... Just on the big screen... Then there's all the animated shows and Titans live action. It's hard to discount something like that while still allowing CW Flash as exposure.

Robin arguably still has more exposure to the general public than almost any of the other contenders. Granted that doesn't translate to 'nightwing'... It's always going to be the 'Batman and...' that will always keep him in the general knowledge.

The Titans live action show slipped my mind but US cartoon which is aimed at kids is not going to extend your reach in pop culture. It is every much niche thing to compare to CW show which has much broader reach of people. No Robin doesn't have more exposure than other contenders his media exposure is to same niche base as the cmics. If he was popping up in movies with Batman movies no doubt you would be right but as an example Teen Titans Go was the most poplar show on Cartoon network average 1 million, Flash TV show average 2.2 million in season 6, In Season 1 and 2 it was averaging 4.6 and 4.2 million viewers.

Despite how Justice league did overall it is more exposure than anything for Robin in recent years, Teen titans go was 5th in box office its open weekend. I am not discount the power of Batman and all of stuff that Robin gets to be part of yes that adds up but all of that stuff is to the same niche audience ..video games, cartoons show, cartoon movies, comics..The CW Flash show which you try to down play

-The Flash premiered in North America on October 7, 2014, where the pilot became the second-most watched premiere in the history of The CW
-he pilot was watched by a total of 6.8 million viewers, becoming The CW's most-watched telecast and the highest-rated premiere among men 18–34 (2.5 rating),Additionally, across all platforms, including initiated streams on digital platforms and total unduplicated viewers on-air over two airings the week of October 7, 2014, the premiere was seen more than 13 million times
- The Flash was the 5th most popular show in the world with 3.1 million demand expressions per day, behind Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, Pretty Little Liars, and Westworld.
-The show also holds the world records for "Most in-demand superhero TV show" and "Most in-demand action and adventure TV show" from the Guinness World Records

Also Flash does show up in pop culture as terminology for speed or just references in things like this



Flash has the broader reach in general culture . Flash is just model of consistence in tv world and in the comic world

[MadFacedKid]

I feel like Aquaman has the potential to be #4 but DC doesn’t have the interest in giving him the number 4 spot or elevating him to that icon status.

I’d argue that’s the reason he never got his Earth One book, they do stuff like leave him out of animation adaptations, kill him off early or give him little to no scenes in the animated or team up movies. Have him missing or not playing much of a role on the JL books. If they capitalized on him the say way they did for Wonder Woman and Harley after their cinematic success I’d say their would be more of a argument for Aquaman.

And I think he obviously has a big argument going for him regardless of his treatment by DC, he’s a JL founder who dates back to the Golden Age. With a mythos and big supporting cast having honestly as much legacy characters tied to him as possibly Superman and possibly more then Diana. Not to mention the A,B,C,D thing just makes it feel like it fits lol Arthur, Bruce, Clark and Diana

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You have an instance like World War 3 where I believe J’onn was asking himself if Aquaman, Batman, Superman, and Diana were their what would they do in his situation. Which I thought interested they were all gone in some way or another during that time period.

Honestly feel like if Aquaman was Aquawoman DC would put more effort on pushing the character more
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[SecretWarrior]

The Titans live action show slipped my mind but US cartoon which is aimed at kids is not going to extend your reach in pop culture. It is every much niche thing to compare to CW show which has much broader reach of people. No Robin doesn't have more exposure than other contenders his media exposure is to same niche base as the cmics. If he was popping up in movies with Batman movies no doubt you would be right but as an example Teen Titans Go was the most poplar show on Cartoon network average 1 million, Flash TV show average 2.2 million in season 6, In Season 1 and 2 it was averaging 4.6 and 4.2 million viewers.

Despite how Justice league did overall it is more exposure than anything for Robin in recent years, Teen titans go was 5th in box office its open weekend. I am not discount the power of Batman and all of stuff that Robin gets to be part of yes that adds up but all of that stuff is to the same niche audience ..video games, cartoons show, cartoon movies, comics..The CW Flash show which you try to down play

-The Flash premiered in North America on October 7, 2014, where the pilot became the second-most watched premiere in the history of The CW
-he pilot was watched by a total of 6.8 million viewers, becoming The CW's most-watched telecast and the highest-rated premiere among men 18–34 (2.5 rating),Additionally, across all platforms, including initiated streams on digital platforms and total unduplicated viewers on-air over two airings the week of October 7, 2014, the premiere was seen more than 13 million times
- The Flash was the 5th most popular show in the world with 3.1 million demand expressions per day, behind Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, Pretty Little Liars, and Westworld.
-The show also holds the world records for "Most in-demand superhero TV show" and "Most in-demand action and adventure TV show" from the Guinness World Records

Also Flash does show up in pop culture as terminology for speed or just references in things like this



Flash has the broader reach in general culture . Flash is just model of consistence in tv world and in the comic world

I'll add this-- Flash's logo is probably the most recognizable outside of the "Trinity," besides maybe Robin, which no one really wears.

You go to a gym enough times, and you're bound to see someone wear a Superman logo, since our culture now associates it with strength. Shaq got it tattoed on his arm. People wear the Bat logo around the time the movies come out because it's "cool." Wonder Woman's logo is associated with female empowerment. (There's a gym nearby that has a Wonder Woman mural of Diana deadlifting.) Flash's logo is associated with "speed." Besides your references, Dwayne Wade got it tattooed because one of his nicknames was the Flash. Because of various shows, people know what the logo means.

Comics fans know the Green Lantern logo is willpower, but I don't think most people know that. And it's not associated with physical strength to the point where it's common at gyms or to the point where famous people get it tattooed on them. No one wears a Robin or Harley logo outside of comics fans. Most people probably don't even know Aquaman has a logo, since it's placed on his waist.

[MadFacedKid]

I'll add this-- Flash's logo is probably the most recognizable outside of the "Trinity," besides maybe Robin, which no one really wears.

You go to a gym enough times, and you're bound to see someone wear a Superman logo, since our culture now associates it with strength. Shaq got it tattoed on his arm. People wear the Bat logo around the time the movies come out because it's "cool." Wonder Woman's logo is associated with female empowerment. (There's a gym nearby that has a Wonder Woman mural of Diana deadlifting.) Flash's logo is associated with "speed." Besides your references, Dwayne Wade got it tattooed because one of his nicknames was the Flash. Because of various shows, people know what the logo means.

Comics fans know the Green Lantern logo is willpower, but I don't think most people know that. And it's not associated with physical strength to the point where it's common at gyms or to the point where famous people get it tattooed on them. No one wears a Robin or Harley logo outside of comics fans. Most people probably don't even know Aquaman has a logo, since it's placed on his waist.

I mean we can also say that on how the character looks. I feel like outside the mask a lot of non comic fans wouldn’t recognize the flash. For all they know he’s a redhead. On top of that he’s not really a character that stands as one character hell Barry doesn’t even stand on his own mythos alone but takes from other Flash’s whether it be the original namesake from Jay or concepts like the speed force and some personality elements from Wally. Hell given how popular Aquaman was to make fun of I’d be really surprised if people didn’t recognize his A given it’s been used in stuff like Conan, Family Guy, South Park I believe and not to mention his billion dollar movie.

[9th.]

and That's really unfair, because in all truth she is not that big as it seems. It doesn't seem that its doing well either.

If Aquaman the butt of jokes for decades scores a billion dollar earning, the Great Harley Quinn should have easily matched that. Instead give or take its nearly 1 billion difference in Aquaman's favor, not 100 million but a billion....and he get's none of the promotion and stuff by DC, she gets.
Same applies to other characters, her comics arent even close in sales to Flash or Green Lantern. Even Catwoman has better sales in comics.
So no she can't be Number 4 and not even 5 or 6. I never heard non Flash, Robin, Aquaman and Green Lantern fans hate these characters as people do in her regard.

I see your point but I don't think fair has anything to do with it honestly. I don't know what goals they have to meet behind the scenes but I'm assuming her show, merch, graphic novels and comics combined make her break even. I'm not saying she should be #4 or 5, maybe not even 6 but she's undeniably popular.

[prepmaster]

It'll always be Robin. Usually Dick Grayson will be the one people think about, but really whoever is wearing the costume gets the #3 spot. Yeah... I put Wonder at #4. It will always be Superman, Batman and Robin, and then Wonder Woman. But Batman and Robin are just iconic in a way that Aquaman, Flash or even sadly Green Lantern Hal just don't have.

Robin is not that iconic. He is not carrying Teen Titans in the way Batman is carrying his own franchise.

HQ has one thing is that they can put her into Birds of Prey (basically an all female street vigilante team), Suicide Squad and other titles. Being a street level character makes it easier for her to be adapted into movies. She is sort of like a female Robin. The versatility of her character.

Aquaman movie was a hit. But if you think about it, the movie features popular actors.

[Johnny]

I have to agree that it's not Harley or Robin because they're both Batman characters.

But part of Harley's appeal from a marketing perspective is that she's a female character who hits a different market taste than Wonder Woman does, like Batman and Superman hit different tastes.

If there are other icons down the road, it'll be ones who hit different demos, i.e., Black, Latino, Asian, LGBTQ+, etc. (Disney already does this with both Marvel and Pixar.)

It's like how Dr. Strange and Black Panther have successful films, but Black Panther hits a more marketable demo, so you see him on promotional material more. Marvel already has the White male demo well represented, and now they're pushing Captain Marvel and Black Panther to be icons rather than Dr. Strange or Ant-Man, even though those guys are still getting play.

Other female characters who could fit the role of "Big Player" besides Wonder Woman, include Vixen, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, and Miss Martian, but they really need to be interpreted differently from Diana, which is to say not the straightforward heroine but rather as a woman with some quirk(s).

I'll agree that Wonder Woman is queer and should be presented more consistently as such, but I think WB is hesitant to do that still because of foreign markets. Still, having one of your Top 3-5 be gay is an easy way to be more "iconic" by speaking to a certain demo.

That's it right there. I'd add it's not just WB since how many Marvel movies about queer characters do they have in the pipeline. Eternals seems to be the only one that comes to mind and that's about a group of characters not a solo project about a queer hero. The MCU is currently doing well as far as racial and gender diversity goes, but they're clearly taking baby steps when it comes to preference.

[Goldrake]

I see your point but I don't think fair has anything to do with it honestly. I don't know what goals they have to meet behind the scenes but I'm assuming her show, merch, graphic novels and comics combined make her break even. I'm not saying she should be #4 or 5, maybe not even 6 but she's undeniably popular.

not contesting that she is popular with a specific audience. She definitely is, but at the same time she is hated as few other characters are. I never see the amount of the dislikes she generates for Robin, Green Lantern etc. Do you see that?

Being popular with specific audience does not qualify her for being 4 or 5 etc. and neither it translates into any big push as we have seen for the movie and neither comics.
Not even changing the title of BOP worked! Starting to think that the amount of loathing she gets was a reason why fans stayed away from watching the movie. I know many Dc fans and read on social media that they openly said they would not watch BOP because mainly of her. OK, thats just a tiny insignificant group of people but says a lot about the way non Harley DC fans look at her.

So its really questionable the extent of her popularity. Seems that away from Batman and Joker she can't stand on her own.

[Jim Kelly]

Wonder Woman was a big seller in the 1940s and 1950s, when girls and women accounted for a large percentage of the consumer base. In fact, National Romance Comics made a lot of their profits for the publisher. But since the 1960s, the publisher has done a poor job with the Amazon and they've lost that big base of female readers. Yet, in terms of merchandising, Wonder Woman always was one of their most valued properties. That's why she survived when other characters fell by the wayside.

And that's the primary reason she's in the so-called Trinity. But it's like a confession that they don't know what to do with the character--so lets use Batman and Superman to prop her up and hopefully trick our mainly middle-aged, straight, male readers into reading about a Feminist icon.

It's a top down decision as opposed to something that arises from the creative milieu. Hal and Barry hanging out together made sense, because they were both written by John Broome for Julius Schwartz, and they were new kids on the block for the super-hero revival. Likewise Superman, Batman and Robin made sense when they were being written by the likes of Bill Finger and Edmond Hamilton and edited by Jack Schiff. Chuck Dixon partnering Black Canary with Oracle in the Birds of Prey--that was a creative impulse. The "Trinity" is strictly a business decision.

[Lightning Rider]

The #4 spot is tight race between Flash and Green Lantern with the edge going slightly to Flash at the moment. Right now Aquaman is the dark horse slowly creeping up and could jump over the other two in time especially if the sequel is better than the first movie.

This is how I see it.

Also, if we were to divide League Members in terms of tiers, I think those 3 all roughly on the same level, one step below the trinity itself. (Maybe with J'onn there)

[TheRay]

The Flash.

of Earth 2.

[phantom1592]

Robin is not that iconic. He is not carrying Teen Titans in the way Batman is carrying his own franchise.

We're probably going to agree to disagree. Frankly that Teen Titans go to the movies was entirely about how Robin wanted his own movie and the rest of the cast were pretty much his sidekicks... he absolutely carried that team. I also don't think there has ever been a Teen Titans without a Robin. Even the moody antisocial Robins get shoehorned in there. Teen Titans has always been 'Robin's team'. Sometimes he may be nightwing... but when you compare where they started with Speedy, kid flash and Wonder girl... and move to the more popular modern ones with Raven, cyborg, and Beast Boy... the only connective tissue is still Robin.

If you want to gauge public iconic ness... Dive into the action figure shelves. Who has had more action figures and memorabilia... Green Lantern, Flash, even Wonder Woman... or Robin? I still remember going into the 'doll shop' with my mom and seeing these on the shelves. Wonder Woman didn't even get one... in the DOLL shop... but Robin's right there.



There are THOUSANDS of Robin figures and nick knacks... but Flash and Green Lantern? Barely anything. And I was a HUGE Green Lantern fan and used to look for anything I could find.... and they're just starting to make a good splash, but then Robin hasn't exactly stopped either. He still floods the aisle with figures, toys, dress up and everything else.

That's pretty 'iconic' to me. He's more than reached the 'Ask an old grandma in the middle of iowa to name 4 DC superheroes' after... y'know trying to explain that Spider-man and the Hulk are Marvel Harley and Green Lantern? not so much...