If Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman are the Trinity, who is #4?

[Gaius]

I would add can she stand on her own feet without Batman?

No need to convince me of anything. Harley’s mixed record on the big screen has been some overdue schadenfreude.

[TheRay]

Captain Marvel.

[SecretWarrior]

I have to agree that it's not Harley or Robin because they're both Batman characters.

But part of Harley's appeal from a marketing perspective is that she's a female character who hits a different market taste than Wonder Woman does, like Batman and Superman hit different tastes.

If there are other icons down the road, it'll be ones who hit different demos, i.e., Black, Latino, Asian, LGBTQ+, etc. (Disney already does this with both Marvel and Pixar.)

It's like how Dr. Strange and Black Panther have successful films, but Black Panther hits a more marketable demo, so you see him on promotional material more. Marvel already has the White male demo well represented, and now they're pushing Captain Marvel and Black Panther to be icons rather than Dr. Strange or Ant-Man, even though those guys are still getting play.

Other female characters who could fit the role of "Big Player" besides Wonder Woman, include Vixen, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, and Miss Martian, but they really need to be interpreted differently from Diana, which is to say not the straightforward heroine but rather as a woman with some quirk(s).

I'll agree that Wonder Woman is queer and should be presented more consistently as such, but I think WB is hesitant to do that still because of foreign markets. Still, having one of your Top 3-5 be gay is an easy way to be more "iconic" by speaking to a certain demo.

[Nite-Wing]

and That's really unfair, because in all truth she is not that big as it seems. It doesn't seem that its doing well either.

If Aquaman the butt of jokes for decades scores a billion dollar earning, the Great Harley Quinn should have easily matched that. Instead give or take its nearly 1 billion difference in Aquaman's favor, not 100 million but a billion....and he get's none of the promotion and stuff by DC, she gets.
Same applies to other characters, her comics arent even close in sales to Flash or Green Lantern. Even Catwoman has better sales in comics.
So no she can't be Number 4 and not even 5 or 6. I never heard non Flash, Robin, Aquaman and Green Lantern fans hate these characters as people do in her regard.

It's pretty fair


Aquaman had a good movie that made a billion and bad comic sales
He had a pretty good push leading up to his movie but nothing showed DC that he was the next green lantern or Flash

Harley Quinn had one bad movie that flopped, a animated series that got renewed, an eisner award winning comic, and an inclusion on NYT best sellers list
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...es-best-seller

When you are a big enough character you can handle failures
look at WW WW84 is doing pretty poorly critically and compared to other covid releases last year its at the bottom. WW3 has already been announced to soften that black eye

Aquaman isn't even close to either of them as a character yet

[Goldrake]

I have to agree that it's not Harley or Robin because they're both Batman characters.

But part of Harley's appeal from a marketing perspective is that she's a female character who hits a different market taste than Wonder Woman does, like Batman and Superman hit different tastes.

If there are other icons down the road, it'll be ones who hit different demos, i.e., Black, Latino, Asian, LGBTQ+, etc.

It's like how Dr. Strange and Black Panther have successful films, but Black Panther hits a more marketable demo, so you see him on promotional material more. Marvel already has the White male demo well represented, and now they're pushing Captain Marvel and Black Panther to be icons rather than Dr. Strange or Ant-Man, even though those guys are still getting play.

Other female characters who could fit the role of "Big Player" besides Wonder Woman, include Vixen, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, and Miss Martian, but they really need to be interpreted differently from Diana, which is to say not the straightforward heroine but rather as a woman with some quirk(s).

I'll agree that Wonder Woman is queer and should be presented more consistently as such, but I think WB is hesitant to do that still because of foreign markets. Still, having one of your Top 3-5 be gay is an easy way to be more "iconic" by speaking to a certain demo.

and it does not translate into any significant increase in box office as we have seen with HQ on the contrary it flopped. Don't take me wrong I am all in favor of diversity, but diversity for the sake of diversity won't work. Especially if the character is HQ, its sending a wrong signal, she is the wrong character for that.

[SecretWarrior]

and it does not translate into any significant increase in box office as we have seen with HQ on the contrary it flopped. Don't take me wrong I am all in favor of diversity, but diversity for the sake of diversity won't work. Especially if the character is HQ, its sending a wrong signal, she is the wrong character for that.

I agree, but I think that's why she's "pushed." She wouldn't be my first choice or my 5th, but she was clearly someone's choice behind the scenes.

The quirky female could've been Miss Martian, Raven, or Starfire, but someone chose an anti-heroine instead.

[Goldrake]

It's pretty fair


Aquaman had a good movie that made a billion and bad comic sales
He had a pretty good push leading up to his movie but nothing showed DC that he was the next green lantern or Flash

Harley Quinn had one bad movie that flopped, a animated series that got renewed, an eisner award winning comic, and an inclusion on NYT best sellers list
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...es-best-seller

When you are a big enough character you can handle failures
look at WW WW84 is doing pretty poorly critically and compared to other covid releases last year its at the bottom. WW3 has already been announced to soften that black eye

Aquaman isn't even close to either of them as a character yet

Aquaman had good comic sales when in right hands, it had bad sales went they experimented with the book and they shouldn't. They had been shown how to make it work and they messed with it instead. Its not the character but a particular run that got bad sales due to a dumb killing plot.
When in able hands it managed to out sell all marvels books, no mean feat for Aquaman.

Its not that you are big and can handle failures. BOP should have been a massive hit, it wasn't. Even Shazam did better.
Her comics neither sell well. And those numbers don't lie. Its not because she can handle failures, it's because DC promotes her just to target a specific audience at all costs. That specific audience does not translate in any increase in terms of movies and comic sales. She is just being forced people throats. Aquaman may not have her popularity but he isn't hated as she is.

[Goldrake]

I agree, but I think that's why she's "pushed." She wouldn't be my first choice or my 5th, but she was clearly someone's choice behind the scenes.

The quirky female could've been Miss Martian, Raven, or Starfire, but someone chose an anti-heroine instead.

agreed, the sad thing is a good part of the specific audience DC targets, feel offended by her, because they view her as mentally unstable and somehow implied they are too.

[Anthony Shaw]

No need to convince me of anything. Harley’s mixed record on the big screen has been some overdue schadenfreude.

I actually looked that up. A person can learn something new every day.

[Gaius]

I actually looked that up. A person can learn something new every day.

[Anthony Shaw]

[Tom Kalbfus]

The title says it all.

Trinity means three so that is all there is.

[Killerbee911]

Right Now

Character: Flash(by default)
Franchise: Green Lantern

I would like to say this isn't a static thing. People like to say Robin for example when was the last time Robin was in a big-screen Batman movie or something that huge reach with the general public? I watch stuff all the time these teenagers and young adults have no clue who Jay-Z, Biggie, Metallica, Gun n roses, etc are and why would they know them. You have to keep on doing things the maintain your place. There was a period of time when Hal Jordan Green Lantern was most definitely the third biggest star at DC he had a cartoon, He had cartoon movies, He had comics and events that was tearing up the charts, and movie series was going to cement him in the general public eye. And the movie flop and the comic cool down, He missed out on years in general public view and slipped backwards. Even Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman have to keep put out stuff relevant to pop culture they will slip and they are in danger of them having no relevance to the next generations.

[phantom1592]

Right Now

Character: Flash(by default)
Franchise: Green Lantern

I would like to say this isn't a static thing. People like to say Robin for example when was the last time Robin was in a big-screen Batman movie or something that huge reach with the general public? I watch stuff all the time these teenagers and young adults have no clue who Jay-Z, Biggie, Metallica, Gun n roses, etc are and why would they know them. You have to keep on doing things the maintain your place.

I would say Teen Titans go to the movies just off the top of my head... and he didn't appear but he was still a presence in Batman V. Superman... Just on the big screen... Then there's all the animated shows and Titans live action. It's hard to discount something like that while still allowing CW Flash as exposure.

Robin arguably still has more exposure to the general public than almost any of the other contenders. Granted that doesn't translate to 'nightwing'... It's always going to be the 'Batman and...' that will always keep him in the general knowledge.

[married guy]

In my head #4 has always been the Flash.
One, he kickstarted the Silver Age and two, stability. It's always been either Barry or Wally in the JLA, unlike GL who could be any one of SIX(!) characters.