Black Knight by Si Spurrier !!!SPOILERS!!!

[Dermie]

I just read #1. Liked it, but hated the way the Avengers thought of him. That's new.

Its not entirely new. Dane's last solo book had a roster of Avengers hunting him down to Weirdworld because they thought he was insane and dangerous and needed to be locked up. By the end of the run he parted on much better terms with them--but the seeds were planted there for the Avengers to not have full confidence in him anymore.

In this case, the main reason they find him annoying and unreliable now is because of this new false persona he acts out--and Dane himself commented in the issue that he hates that version of himself too. If his act annoys himself, we can hardly be surprised if it annoys his colleagues too.

Cap at least still seemed to have some respect for Dane, even while acknowledging that he is now somewhat awkward to deal with. I'm okay with Carol and even T'Challa having a bit less tolerance for Dane's act, since those two have less experience with Dane when he was more in control. Neither of them served with Dane during his stints as an active Avenger. If we were seeing Avengers like She-Hulk, Wasp and Spectrum acting that way towards him, I'd be more concerned.

Thor was the one who really annoyed me. He DID serve with Dane as an active Avenger, and they were friends. Thor stood by Dane during one of his previous experiences when the Blood Curse was taking him over, and given Thor's own experiences with mental health problems I would think he would be a bit more understanding and show a bit more loyalty to a man he called his friend. Thor did show a bit more compassion at one point when he was talking to Carol about Dane's issues...but I was still disappointed in his behaviour towards Dane directly.

[Sutekh]

Thor was the one who really annoyed me. He DID serve with Dane as an active Avenger, and they were friends. Thor stood by Dane during one of his previous experiences when the Blood Curse was taking him over, and given Thor's own experiences with mental health problems I would think he would be a bit more understanding and show a bit more loyalty to a man he called his friend. Thor did show a bit more compassion at one point when he was talking to Carol about Dane's issues...but I was still disappointed in his behaviour towards Dane directly.

Given how Thor's been written over the last decade, the whole unworthy ale-swilling oaf who's a lout towards women and whatnot, it's just item number 37 on the list of things I don't like about Thor's new attitude.

Being a fan of fantasy and knights and dragons and wizards, I always wanted to like Black Knight more than I have liked the execution of the character, although I am intrigued and amused by how they've blended whacky mad science into the mix, with the original Black Knight villain and his power-lance that shot nerve gas and force bolts, and his cloned bat-winged steed, now replaced by cloned bird-winged steeds. It's funky how pulp-y science has gotten all mashed up with mystical stuff, because of the Ebony Blade and mystical past angle, to make one of those hybrid characters that can only exist in the comics, where all the genres smoosh together and you get mutant sorceresses and alien dragons and elves from Asgard.

A 'Black Knight' spin-off character who *just* uses the technology, the energy shield and the neuro-sword and the power lance and the 'atomic steed,' along with some medieval-looking armor, could be fun, much like Dane was back in his Avengers days, when he wasn't all about the Ebony Blade and it's curse every darn minute. (Kind of a tired story, IMO. He keeps repeating it. "Oh, the curse!" "I mastered it!" [10 years later] "Oh, the curse!")

[mugiwara]

So, Dane is the new Clint, right?
Treated like a jerk and/or a loser by the other Avengers, especially by the one who joined HYDRA on his own will.

[Panic]

Its not entirely new. Dane's last solo book had a roster of Avengers hunting him down to Weirdworld because they thought he was insane and dangerous and needed to be locked up. By the end of the run he parted on much better terms with them--but the seeds were planted there for the Avengers to not have full confidence in him anymore.

In this case, the main reason they find him annoying and unreliable now is because of this new false persona he acts out--and Dane himself commented in the issue that he hates that version of himself too. If his act annoys himself, we can hardly be surprised if it annoys his colleagues too.

Cap at least still seemed to have some respect for Dane, even while acknowledging that he is now somewhat awkward to deal with. I'm okay with Carol and even T'Challa having a bit less tolerance for Dane's act, since those two have less experience with Dane when he was more in control. Neither of them served with Dane during his stints as an active Avenger. If we were seeing Avengers like She-Hulk, Wasp and Spectrum acting that way towards him, I'd be more concerned.

Thor was the one who really annoyed me. He DID serve with Dane as an active Avenger, and they were friends. Thor stood by Dane during one of his previous experiences when the Blood Curse was taking him over, and given Thor's own experiences with mental health problems I would think he would be a bit more understanding and show a bit more loyalty to a man he called his friend. Thor did show a bit more compassion at one point when he was talking to Carol about Dane's issues...but I was still disappointed in his behaviour towards Dane directly.

It's an incredibly predictable move from the current Marvel writers to have Dane dissed by Thor and the other Avengers, whilst Cap comes out of looking good/okay; Marvel seems to be all about Team Cap cementing Steve as the alpha-male saint surrounded by ****s. It's something I'm totally sick of. The current characterisations of many heroes are just awful, not at all what they were in their heyday.

[Celtic1967]

Ditto. It makes the other heroes (particularly Thor, who was extra salty) look like asses.

And it's been the trend for a decade or so to make formerly competent respected heroes 'the Homer' who is regarded as a hard-luck hero at best, and a screw-up at worst, by their peers. Scott Lang's gotten a ride on this down-and-out train, then Clint Barton, now it's Dane Whitman's turn on the bumble-tron, it seems.

^^This. Marvel keeps turning established heroes into "lovable", incompetent idiots. Star-Lord has had the same issues too, but seems to be trending away from that.

[The Cool Thatguy]

So, Dane is the new Clint, right?
Treated like a jerk and/or a loser by the other Avengers, especially by the one who joined HYDRA on his own will.

Odd that writers don't seem to understand that by copying other characters, they're not being original

[Anthony W]

Was interested in this but after hearing that he is the new Hawkeye, not so much.

[Dermie]

Was interested in this but after hearing that he is the new Hawkeye, not so much.

I'd definitely recommend reading it for yourself and making your own judgement. Dane isn't "the new Hawkeye"; that is just getting used to describe Dane's current relationship to his fellow Avengers, but I'd say the comparison is loose at best. The circumstances and dynamics of both situations are very different.

[Sutekh]

If the writer turned it all on it's head and suggested that the curse of the Ebony Blade has a 'Cassandra' component where it alienates you from any healthy relationships so that you are more susceptible to it's bloodlusty suggestions of carnage (having pushed away any better influences than the wicked old sword, who works really hard to keep you isolated and it your 'only friend'), it could be an interesting tweak.

"It's weird how all the former wielders ended up alone. Almost like the sword gets jealous..."

[Iron Maiden]

I'd definitely recommend reading it for yourself and making your own judgement. Dane isn't "the new Hawkeye"; that is just getting used to describe Dane's current relationship to his fellow Avengers, but I'd say the comparison is loose at best. The circumstances and dynamics of both situations are very different.

It still turned me off this series. I was looking forward to it since I've not read much of the Dane/Black Knight this past years. I found it very disappointing and I can see why people are calling him the new Hawkeye. And I hated the Fraction series and dropped it rather quickly.

[mrjinjin]

Marvel has been looking for ways to make the Black Knight more popular for many years. It is hard making a 'knight' relevant in our modern age. I thought they hit upon something with Tieri's series in Weirdworld with Game of Thrones being so popular, but poor sales and Weirdworld did not catch on caused it to be cancelled quickly. I think it will be interesting to see if Dane is popular after his appearance in the Eternals movie and how he will be treated in the comics if he is. I read that Camelot will have a big place in Marvel comics after this series. I just hope it sells good enough to be picked up as a ongoing.

[Pav]

Marvel has been looking for ways to make the Black Knight more popular for many years. It is hard making a 'knight' relevant in our modern age. I thought they hit upon something with Tieri's series in Weirdworld with Game of Thrones being so popular, but poor sales and Weirdworld did not catch on caused it to be cancelled quickly. I think it will be interesting to see if Dane is popular after his appearance in the Eternals movie and how he will be treated in the comics if he is. I read that Camelot will have a big place in Marvel comics after this series. I just hope it sells good enough to be picked up as a ongoing.

I'm cautiously optimistic that something quite interesting is brewing here.

-Pav, who needs a flying horse clone please...

[mugiwara]

What annoys me the most is that it's Thor, of all people, who despises Dan the most.
Thor who joined Hydra.
Thor who had more than once warrior madness.
Thor who witnessed Dane risking his life for Asgard.

[Panic]

What annoys me the most is that it's Thor, of all people, who despises Dan the most.
Thor who joined Hydra.
Thor who had more than once warrior madness.
Thor who witnessed Dane risking his life for Asgard.

It's pointless getting annoyed at Thor. The current Marvel writers have, imo, been deliberately writing him as a jerk for years now. I'm sure they're doing their best to reduce his popularity.

[The Cool Thatguy]

What annoys me the most is that it's Thor, of all people, who despises Dan the most.
Thor who joined Hydra.
Thor who had more than once warrior madness.
Thor who witnessed Dane risking his life for Asgard.

Yeah, this goes with the damn thinking of writers these days, that characters in comics only seem to give the same amount of respect to characters that they have in mainstream media.

Thor ought to hold Dane in high regard for his help in dealing with Set, especially given how instrumental he was (even if he was a prop at the end of it)