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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog View Post
    She may have been prepared to kill Superdoom, but let's say she tried to. Doomsday already shrugged off the effects of Diana thrusting a sword into his chest. This leads me to believe that she couldn't simply slice off Superdooms head if she wanted to. The writers and editors would also probably show it in such a way that even if Diana tried slicing Superdooms head off, it couldn't happen. Some bad comic book logic like: he's too strong, his skin is too dense, the sword breaks off on his bone, etc. etc. etc.
    Nope. The writer decided to have Diana not kill Superdoom by deliberately pulling back her strike. If he wanted to show that Diana was weaker then Superdoom, he could've just had Diana's strike bounce off his neck.

    Diana stabbed Doomsday through the chest with her sword. It did damage. It stopped Doomsday in his tracks. Yes, the sword was destroyed and Doomsday healed the damage. But damage was done, nonetheless. A strike like a decapitation, however? I doubt Superdoom will just pick his head off the floor and put it back on his neck.

    Otherwise, if Diana is powerful enough to wield her atom slicing sword at opponents like Doomsday or Superdoom and be able to cut off their heads, she would have an instant type of solution against other universal threats like Darkseid. I don't think the editors or writers would let this happen, even though it would be logical given her strength and an apparently magical sword that can slice atoms.
    Darkseid's supposed to be an even bigger threat than Doomsday. Saying Diana's sword can't just decapitate him still makes sense. And even still, we saw Diana's sword was strong enough to take out one of Darkseid's eyes. Stands to reason it could do more damage as well.

    If the writers and editors don't want Diana one-shotting villains with her swords, then all they have to do is make sure Diana doesn't manage to land a killing blow with her swords. They don't want her to kill Darkseid? Have him blast her before she connects. Have one of the Furies tackle her. Whatever.

    But Diana injured Doomsday once. That scene with Superdoom built up all the tension in the world until Diana pulled back at the last second. Diana, armed with one of her awesome swords, is a threat to just about any villain. I like it, myself.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  2. #17
    Incredible Member BlackFeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog View Post
    She may have been prepared to kill Superdoom, but let's say she tried to. Doomsday already shrugged off the effects of Diana thrusting a sword into his chest. This leads me to believe that she couldn't simply slice off Superdooms head if she wanted to. The writers and editors would also probably show it in such a way that even if Diana tried slicing Superdooms head off, it couldn't happen. Some bad comic book logic like: he's too strong, his skin is too dense, the sword breaks off on his bone, etc. etc. etc.

    Otherwise, if Diana is powerful enough to wield her atom slicing sword at opponents like Doomsday or Superdoom and be able to cut off their heads, she would have an instant type of solution against other universal threats like Darkseid. I don't think the editors or writers would let this happen, even though it would be logical given her strength and an apparently magical sword that can slice atoms.
    Except to kill even beings like Darkseid is always the last choice, you won't see them go for the killing every time a dangerous opponent arrives, and nothing suggested from the scene that her sword wouldn't have killed him.

    Also, even if Doomsday healed himself after Diana used her sword against him, first he was injured. So...his body wasn't 'dense enough' to shatter the sword (not that this logic can be applied since it is a magical sword which can cut atoms, and even in comics I believe that everything is made of atoms, right? He just isn't invulnerable to it), so nothing suggests that Superdoom wouldn't have been injured too, and this time Diana was going to cut his head off, I doubt he would have been able to recover from that: Doomsday didn't regenarate himself when he was cut in half.
    Last edited by BlackFeath; 08-21-2014 at 08:26 AM.
    "Sometimes, it's best not to be who we are...but who we aspire to be". (Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman #23)

  3. #18
    Stop a war with love. Darius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    And yes, Diana likely still thought she was sculpted from clay by the time she came to Man's World and joined the League. It is only quite recently that she learned the truth.
    This is a certainty. She was under this impression until 5 years later ... first arc of the Solo series takes place in the "5 years later" timeline post JL:War arc

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Tiara View Post
    She has the power of flight, super-speed, super-strength, enhanced healing and is an expert in various forms of combat, due to training from Ares and the Amazons. For the moment she's also the God of War.

    The God of War powers include the ability to telepathically communicate with and mentally influence soldiers. She probably can summon dead warriors from the past like Ares did too.

    In addition to defecting bullets, projectiles, sword strikes and various forms of energy, her bracelets keep her own inherent God Mode power in check. Without them she crackles with blue lightning, has electrified eyes and a neon glow to her costume. There's also an undefined surge in her natural speed, strength and fighting capabilities that apparently makes her powers harder to control.

    The bracelets are also able to temporarily create various kinds of weapons that disappear soon after they leave her hands. The blue lightning that erupts from her bracelets when they make weapons is able to be directed offensively as an energy blast.

    Her unbreakable Lasso of Truth forces the encircled to speak with absolute honesty and it's strong enough to easily contain an enraged Kryptonian.

    She also has super-breath similar to Superman's, but she can't hold it long enough to survive in space.

    Geesh.....I kind of feel sorry for the person who has to write up Wonder Woman's Who's Who entry in any future volumes of the series. I hope that the Finchs get rid of the weapons coming out of the bracelets as it makes Diana seem a bit redundant when she's around others like Batman, Hawkman, and Green Lantern. I do like the addition of her begin able to channel the lightning(of Zeus I presume?) but the 7-Eleven bracelets need to go. Diana's bracelets(as defensive devices), her lasso, and tiara are enough weapons for her in addition to her powers.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  5. #20

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    The part about WW and space seems like a simple justification to force WW and SM back to Earth. They wanted to force them back, so screw you WW you're getting a convenient power nerf.

    As for the other fights in God Mode, i told you it was going to become a deus ex machina that would be used all the time. Only Azz really examines its ramifications, everyone else just uses it every time they want to show that **** got real and WW needs to fight harder.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Geesh.....I kind of feel sorry for the person who has to write up Wonder Woman's Who's Who entry in any future volumes of the series. I hope that the Finchs get rid of the weapons coming out of the bracelets as it makes Diana seem a bit redundant when she's around others like Batman, Hawkman, and Green Lantern. I do like the addition of her begin able to channel the lightning(of Zeus I presume?) but the 7-Eleven bracelets need to go. Diana's bracelets(as defensive devices), her lasso, and tiara are enough weapons for her in addition to her powers.
    I just don't get why you hate the weapon bracelets so much.

    I mean where's the harm in letting Diana have more options? If she needs a weapon? She's got 'em. When she doesn't need weapons? They're gone. Since she can do so many different weapons, she can really show off her warrior training.

    I don't see how this makes Diana seem "redundant." Batman only has what's on his toolbelt. If he throws away all his Batarangs? He's in trouble. And he almost never carries a sword, spear, whatevs. Hawkman isn't on the Justice League and has barely even met Diana. His weapons aren't god-forged, so they're not as powerful or as effective against powerful opponents. The Lanterns? Yeah, they CAN mimic the same effect. But none of them ever really bother. None of them are really melee fighters. If Hal conjures up a sword and attacks Diana? She'll carve him up like a turkey. And the Lanterns still can't create melee weapons of the quality that Hephaestus' power is capable of.

    Bows and arrows, javelins, and those energy blasts she was using in Superdoomed finally gives Diana a really solid ranged game as well.

    I just don't see a downside for them.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    I just don't get why you hate the weapon bracelets so much.

    I mean where's the harm in letting Diana have more options? If she needs a weapon? She's got 'em. When she doesn't need weapons? They're gone. Since she can do so many different weapons, she can really show off her warrior training.

    I don't see how this makes Diana seem "redundant." Batman only has what's on his toolbelt. If he throws away all his Batarangs? He's in trouble. And he almost never carries a sword, spear, whatevs. Hawkman isn't on the Justice League and has barely even met Diana. His weapons aren't god-forged, so they're not as powerful or as effective against powerful opponents. The Lanterns? Yeah, they CAN mimic the same effect. But none of them ever really bother. None of them are really melee fighters. If Hal conjures up a sword and attacks Diana? She'll carve him up like a turkey. And the Lanterns still can't create melee weapons of the quality that Hephaestus' power is capable of.

    Bows and arrows, javelins, and those energy blasts she was using in Superdoomed finally gives Diana a really solid ranged game as well.

    I just don't see a downside for them.

    They just seem kind of goofy to me. It's like she has 2 power-rings on her wrists. I also don't really like her using any weapons beyond the bracelets, tiara, and lasso. She's as strong as Superman, why does she need a sword, spear, bow & arrow, etc.? More options I suppose but then why not give Superman and Shazam a whole bunch of weapons as well? It's going to come down to some people asking what she CAN'T do and I don't mean that in a good way.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  8. #23

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    Throwing the tiara is the stupidest thing ever. She might as well be throwing her shoes.

    Azz bracelets >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> throwing your clothing accessories that somehow have boomerang qualities.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    They just seem kind of goofy to me. It's like she has 2 power-rings on her wrists. I also don't really like her using any weapons beyond the bracelets, tiara, and lasso. She's as strong as Superman, why does she need a sword, spear, bow & arrow, etc.? More options I suppose but then why not give Superman and Shazam a whole bunch of weapons as well? It's going to come down to some people asking what she CAN'T do and I don't mean that in a good way.
    They're hardly power rings. Power rings can create ANYTHING. Diana, so far, can only create weapons and raw energy blasts. That's nowhere near the same versatility as a power ring.

    I get not liking her using other weapons, at least. But why does she use weapons when she's almost as strong as Superman? Because it's an important part of her culture. She's a warrior and knows how to fight with an array of weapons. It's a good way to show her skill. Perhaps the most important reason is that weapons are intended to do MORE damage than a person can do unarmed. The whole point of weapons is to allow you to do things with them that you can't do with your bare hand.

    As I've said before, I'm a big fan of tabletop RPG's. In the games I enjoy best, if you have two characters with the same combat stats-with the only difference being that one is fighting unarmed and the other is fighting with a sword-in combat with each other, the system doesn't give either side any great mechanical advantage over the other. Just about the only real difference between these two characters will be that the character with a sword will probably score a little extra damage on the character who is fighting unarmed, because a strike from a sword is much more likely to do more serious harm than a strike from an empty hand.

    Why not give Superman weapons? Because weapons aren't part of his culture. He's not a warrior. He'd be totally incompetent with them. Sure, he could learn. But he just doesn't really want to. And considering how masterful his command of his powers are, they're often unnecessary.

    Diana with weapons has more options and flexibility at her disposal. Sure, there's a risk of her being more prone to lethal attacks, but I think we both agree that Diana shouldn't be using her weapons (aside from the Lasso) on regular opponents anyway. Yeah, show me Wonder Woman attacking normal humans, or weaker enemies that she can easily beat, with lethal hardware is unacceptable to pretty much every Wonder Woman fan. So, I say let her have the weapons bracelets, and only have her use them against enemies that actually warrant the extra damage potential.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    They're hardly power rings. Power rings can create ANYTHING. Diana, so far, can only create weapons and raw energy blasts. That's nowhere near the same versatility as a power ring.

    I get not liking her using other weapons, at least. But why does she use weapons when she's almost as strong as Superman? Because it's an important part of her culture. She's a warrior and knows how to fight with an array of weapons. It's a good way to show her skill. Perhaps the most important reason is that weapons are intended to do MORE damage than a person can do unarmed. The whole point of weapons is to allow you to do things with them that you can't do with your bare hand.

    As I've said before, I'm a big fan of tabletop RPG's. In the games I enjoy best, if you have two characters with the same combat stats-with the only difference being that one is fighting unarmed and the other is fighting with a sword-in combat with each other, the system doesn't give either side any great mechanical advantage over the other. Just about the only real difference between these two characters will be that the character with a sword will probably score a little extra damage on the character who is fighting unarmed, because a strike from a sword is much more likely to do more serious harm than a strike from an empty hand.

    Why not give Superman weapons? Because weapons aren't part of his culture. He's not a warrior. He'd be totally incompetent with them. Sure, he could learn. But he just doesn't really want to. And considering how masterful his command of his powers are, they're often unnecessary.

    Diana with weapons has more options and flexibility at her disposal. Sure, there's a risk of her being more prone to lethal attacks, but I think we both agree that Diana shouldn't be using her weapons (aside from the Lasso) on regular opponents anyway. Yeah, show me Wonder Woman attacking normal humans, or weaker enemies that she can easily beat, with lethal hardware is unacceptable to pretty much every Wonder Woman fan. So, I say let her have the weapons bracelets, and only have her use them against enemies that actually warrant the extra damage potential.

    But the thing is(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here) just about every writer that has used Diana in the New 52 has had her carrying/using said weapons. She's not just using them when she's fighting Medusa, Doomsday, or Darkseid. I am certainly more open to her using them against threats like the ones I just mentioned but when she's going up against Cheetah, Bizarro, Sinestro, Queen Clea, Professor Zoom, Black Manta, Dr. Psycho, etc., I don't think she should use them.

    I also don't like the aesthetics of it all. "Oh, hey - look! I just pulled a great big honkin' battle axe out of my bracelet!"
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    But the thing is(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here) just about every writer that has used Diana in the New 52 has had her carrying/using said weapons. She's not just using them when she's fighting Medusa, Doomsday, or Darkseid. I am certainly more open to her using them against threats like the ones I just mentioned but when she's going up against Cheetah, Bizarro, Sinestro, Queen Clea, Professor Zoom, Black Manta, Dr. Psycho, etc., I don't think she should use them.

    I also don't like the aesthetics of it all. "Oh, hey - look! I just pulled a great big honkin' battle axe out of my bracelet!"
    Yes, I totally agree with you that Diana should just stop carrying around an actual, physical sword. The fact that Azz is the one writer who DOESN'T follow that format speaks volumes to me. Clearly HE thinks that the bracelets are sufficient for her day-to-day needs. I wish the other writers would follow that pattern.

    That's why I like the bracelets. It's the perfect solution to this problem. Diana doesn't carry anything other than the Lasso on average. But if she suddenly realizes a need for a weapon, she doesn't have to sprint home to grab one. She's got a whole arsenal at her disposal.

    I mean, sure, if she's fighting Cheetah, a sword isn't necessary. But let's just say Cheetah suddenly reveals that she's working with Circe, who shows up and summons some big, ugly monster to attack Diana. That's a really bad time for Diana to think "Damn! It sure would be nice if I had a sword right about now!"

    But, yeah, if it's just the aesthetics that bother you, I can respect that. I don't agree. But I can respect it.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  12. #27
    Incredible Member NYCER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hurt View Post
    As for the other fights in God Mode, i told you it was going to become a deus ex machina that would be used all the time. Only Azz really examines its ramifications, everyone else just uses it every time they want to show that **** got real and WW needs to fight harder.
    Has Azzarello really done that though? Because he hasn't done a good job at all with defining let alone exploring the ramifications of Diana augmenting her powers by removing her bracers other than displaying that Diana can defeat Artemis in hand to hand combat without her wearing her bracers.

    The onset of Diana's power of flight still seems irreconcilable with her exploits with the Justice League absent some serious fanwankery (and I blame Azzarello for extremely isolating Diana from the Leaguers but not from a random character like Orion). As of JUSTICE LEAGUE #7, it seems clear to me that Wonder Woman was already flying when they attacked that spore creature harassing his ex-wife.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCER View Post
    The onset of Diana's power of flight still seems irreconcilable with her exploits with the Justice League absent some serious fanwankery (and I blame Azzarello for extremely isolating Diana from the Leaguers but not from a random character like Orion). As of JUSTICE LEAGUE #7, it seems clear to me that Wonder Woman was already flying when they attacked that spore creature harassing his ex-wife.
    Nope.

    Diana, Batman, and Flash were being flown into combat inside Green Lantern bubbles in the beginning of that fight. The only thing Diana did in #7 that could even be mistaken for flying is in that group shot where she, Superman, and Cyborg are attacking the beastie. She appears to be flying in that seen, I'll grant. But if she could fly, then why did she need Hal to carry her in the beginning?

    There are only two explanations. One. Diana could fly at that time, but not fast enough to keep up with the other fliers on the team. If that's the case? Then the feather Hermes gave her didn't so much grant her the power to fly, it just increased her flight speed. Two. Diana could not fly by the time of that battle, and that shot of her "flying" at the monster was either her just executing a super jump, or maybe Superman picked her up and threw her at the monster. Fast-ball Special-style.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  14. #29
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    I've never been a fan of the swiss army cuffs. Now Diana can apparently form any weapon of her choice out of thin air (or bracers, if you prefer). Also, she can shoot out lightning blasts. Did Azz ever explain that one, or did another writer just infer that she is channeling Zeus's power?

    The writers and editors for Wonder Woman and the other comic books are definitely not on the same page because she wears a sword all the time, yet why would she if she can just manifest them from her bracers?

    And the god-mode ramifications have not been fully developed yet in the Azz-verse, at least to me. Has he explained how she can sleep or do other activities without the bracers on? (I did drop the series at about issue 25, so he may have explained that one--although Azz is more of a fill in the blanks type of guy).

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog View Post
    I've never been a fan of the swiss army cuffs. Now Diana can apparently form any weapon of her choice out of thin air (or bracers, if you prefer). Also, she can shoot out lightning blasts. Did Azz ever explain that one, or did another writer just infer that she is channeling Zeus's power?
    If I recall correctly, we haven't seen the lightning blasts from Diana in Azz's book. I think Diana used those in one of the SM/WW issues in Superdoom. We've only seen it the one time so far, and no explanation was given. Diana just chucked what looked like a blast of blue energy.

    The writers and editors for Wonder Woman and the other comic books are definitely not on the same page because she wears a sword all the time, yet why would she if she can just manifest them from her bracers?
    As I said to Dr. Poison, I agree. If the bracelets are going to stick around, she really should stop carrying a physical sword. Heck, in SM/WW, Soule even introduced the idea that Diana can store a physical sword in her bracelets.

    There really is no good reason for her to continue wearing a sword in plain view.

    And the god-mode ramifications have not been fully developed yet in the Azz-verse, at least to me. Has he explained how she can sleep or do other activities without the bracers on? (I did drop the series at about issue 25, so he may have explained that one--although Azz is more of a fill in the blanks type of guy).
    No, unfortunately Azz still hasn't explained how God Mode yet.

    My theory, however, was pretty well-received on another thread as being a likely explanation. My theory is that the bracelets don't so much prevent God Mode from happening. They more place a kind of "power cap" on Diana that prevents her from drawing on too much of her power at once. God Mode is basically when Diana calls on her full, unbridled power. She can't do this while wearing the bracelets. But the idea is that God Mode remains a choice for Diana. It's just not a choice she can make when she's wearing the bracelets.

    So, in other words, Diana can take off the bracelets to go to bed, get dressed up for a date with Clark, take a shower, whatever. She isn't going to automatically go to God Mode when she does this, though. It's a conscious choice for her to call up her power to maximum levels. If she's not in combat, there's no need to draw on that kind of power. Every time we've seen her go God Mode without the bracelets has been when she was in combat and choosing to draw on her power. The one time we've seen her NOT go God Mode without the bracelets was when she was sleeping in her apartment, when she obviously wasn't calling on any of her power.

    Again, this is only my theory. But it fits with just about everything we've seen so far.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

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