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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hurt View Post
    I agree with every point.


    Johns just wont accept anything from Azz-Chiang will he?

    Johns has accepted quite a few things from Azzarello's run. He acknowledges that Diana is now the daughter of Zeus, that Diana gets her weapons from Hephaestus, and that Hippolyta has been turned to stone for starters. On the flip side, I think it's Azzarello who won't accept anything from Johns or Soule. Please feel free to point out examples if I'm wrong.
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  2. #47
    Incredible Member BlackFeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Johns has accepted quite a few things from Azzarello's run. He acknowledges that Diana is now the daughter of Zeus, that Diana gets her weapons from Hephaestus, and that Hippolyta has been turned to stone for starters. On the flip side, I think it's Azzarello who won't accept anything from Johns or Soule. Please feel free to point out examples if I'm wrong.
    Would you like Azz to accept the sword attached to the leg or the awesome personality Diana has in Justice League? u.u

    I can't see what Azzarello should have accepted from Johns, except maybe acknowledge the existence of Superman and their relationship...but for the rest...absolutely nothing.
    Last edited by BlackFeath; 08-24-2014 at 01:59 PM.
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  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackFeath View Post
    Would you like Azz to accept the sword attached to the leg or the awesome personality Diana has in Justice League? u.u

    I can't see what Azzarello should have accepted from Johns, except maybe acknowledge the existence of Superman and their relationship...but for the rest...absolutely nothing.

    How about Diana's relationship with Steve Trevor? Her arch-nemesis as the Cheetah? The old woman at the Indian reservation that Diana visits regularly?

    As for Soule - the Invisible Jet, the exploding armor, Hessia as a supporting character, and Doom's Doorway for starters.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  4. #49
    Incredible Member BlackFeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    How about Diana's relationship with Steve Trevor? Her arch-nemesis as the Cheetah? The old woman at the Indian reservation that Diana visits regularly?
    As for Soule - the Invisible Jet, the exploding armor, Hessia as a supporting character, and Doom's Doorway for starters.
    Maybe he could have, but Azzarello has made it clear he is telling his story that he has already planned from the beginning. To introduce this kind of elements (I would exclude the exploding armor since I really doubt it will appear again...it was used only once) and these characters in his book, he should have changed his plans, they are not like the things that were referenced in the other books from his run, and not referencing them doesn't introduce any inconsistency like the fact that she has that sword attached to her leg and doesn't use instead the power of her bracelets.
    What Johns acknowledges is the minimum. He can't say she is not Zeus's daughter, she gets her weapons from someone else, ecc... without having a major inconsistency.
    Last edited by BlackFeath; 08-24-2014 at 03:34 PM.
    "Sometimes, it's best not to be who we are...but who we aspire to be". (Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman #23)

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCER View Post
    Has Azzarello really done that though? Because he hasn't done a good job at all with defining let alone exploring the ramifications of Diana augmenting her powers by removing her bracers other than displaying that Diana can defeat Artemis in hand to hand combat without her wearing her bracers.

    The onset of Diana's power of flight still seems irreconcilable with her exploits with the Justice League absent some serious fanwankery (and I blame Azzarello for extremely isolating Diana from the Leaguers but not from a random character like Orion). As of JUSTICE LEAGUE #7, it seems clear to me that Wonder Woman was already flying when they attacked that spore creature harassing his ex-wife.
    Orion is not a random character, he is the darkseid's son, future ruler of Apokalips. created by Kirby, definately not a random character

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    How about Diana's relationship with Steve Trevor? Her arch-nemesis as the Cheetah? The old woman at the Indian reservation that Diana visits regularly?

    As for Soule - the Invisible Jet, the exploding armor, Hessia as a supporting character, and Doom's Doorway for starters.
    Azzarello acknowledge WW relationship with Trevor. hessia is completely redundant, dooms doorway Azz left it open, no big deal. it's easy to realize they are there from WW#0 and the guest starring on batwoman issues.
    the old woman in indian reservation not even johns followed up that.
    Last edited by Blacksun; 08-24-2014 at 03:53 PM.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Regardless of either of your defenses for Azzarello, has he acknowledged ANYTHING from any other writer who's written Wonder Woman in the New 52? Anything at all? From Justice League, Batwoman, Superman/Wonder Woman, Superman(Lobdell's run) etc.? Why is it a sin that a creator doesn't use the Swiss-army bracelets but Azz can ignore everything that every other writer introduced about Wonder Woman? If you're going to say "because he's telling his story" well then why can't Johns get a pass for telling his story? That doesn't seem very consistent to me.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Regardless of either of your defenses for Azzarello, has he acknowledged ANYTHING from any other writer who's written Wonder Woman in the New 52? Anything at all? From Justice League, Batwoman, Superman/Wonder Woman, Superman(Lobdell's run) etc.? Why is it a sin that a creator doesn't use the Swiss-army bracelets but Azz can ignore everything that every other writer introduced about Wonder Woman? If you're going to say "because he's telling his story" well then why can't Johns get a pass for telling his story? That doesn't seem very consistent to me.
    Azzarello was the WW head writer, not a random guy like lobdell or Williams II. Johns writing WW proved to be a disaster, she is a side character. he is not by any means telling his WW story, he should reflect what the characters are in solo books into his JL. Not run over a excellent characterization like Azz WW.

  8. #53
    Stop a war with love. Darius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Regardless of either of your defenses for Azzarello, has he acknowledged ANYTHING from any other writer who's written Wonder Woman in the New 52? Anything at all? From Justice League, Batwoman, Superman/Wonder Woman, Superman(Lobdell's run) etc.? Why is it a sin that a creator doesn't use the Swiss-army bracelets but Azz can ignore everything that every other writer introduced about Wonder Woman? If you're going to say "because he's telling his story" well then why can't Johns get a pass for telling his story? That doesn't seem very consistent to me.
    What has he ignored? His timeline isn't the same as the other books ... His story is actually over by the events of Doomed ... Pretty sure it's done in terms of continuity just after Zod/Faora since SM throws the FB in her face at the beginning of Doomed.

    What has another writer introduced that he should have incorporated? Hessia? She seems to have been created specifically because all the other Amazons were still snakes and Soule seems to think Diana needed an Amazon friend. Steve? By the time Azzarello's run started they were already broken up, what purpose would he serve in a myth story? Clark? I suspect that has more to do with the relationship happening outside of Azzarello's story and being inorganic to suddenly add into what he had built for well over a year when it started. Did she acquire a power that Azzarello is ignoring?

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius View Post
    What has he ignored? His timeline isn't the same as the other books ... His story is actually over by the events of Doomed ... Pretty sure it's done in terms of continuity just after Zod/Faora since SM throws the FB in her face at the beginning of Doomed.

    What has another writer introduced that he should have incorporated? Hessia? She seems to have been created specifically because all the other Amazons were still snakes and Soule seems to think Diana needed an Amazon friend. Steve? By the time Azzarello's run started they were already broken up, what purpose would he serve in a myth story? Clark? I suspect that has more to do with the relationship happening outside of Azzarello's story and being inorganic to suddenly add into what he had built for well over a year when it started. Did she acquire a power that Azzarello is ignoring?

    How about the mind-link with soldiers, lighting blasts from the bracers Invisible Jet, or the exploding armor that Heph made for her in SM/WW? Azz hasn't acknowledged a single thing from any other book that WW is featured in so I don't see why other writers should have to acknowledge what he's written. Turnabout is fair play after all.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  10. #55
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    Azzarello said that Steve would show up in his run. So Steve will still show up in the last two issues or something made him change his plans. What he says on interviews always happen, like introducing highfather and no to others new gods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    How about the mind-link with soldiers, lighting blasts from the bracers Invisible Jet, or the exploding armor that Heph made for her in SM/WW? Azz hasn't acknowledged a single thing from any other book that WW is featured in so I don't see why other writers should have to acknowledge what he's written. Turnabout is fair play after all.
    Invisible jet? it is from heph and doesn't make any sense. why acknowledge a armor that already exploded?
    mind link with soldiers, that even Soule forgot about it.

  11. #56
    Stop a war with love. Darius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    How about the mind-link with soldiers, lighting blasts from the bracers Invisible Jet, or the exploding armor that Heph made for her in SM/WW? Azz hasn't acknowledged a single thing from any other book that WW is featured in so I don't see why other writers should have to acknowledge what he's written. Turnabout is fair play after all.
    You are talking about him not rehashing stuff from other writers storylines ... No one does that. It's not like we hear from every writer who touches her about how Hermes feather gave her flight. What could Azzarello include about any of those things that makes them better or adds to the character? Azzarello uses Hephaestus all the time, why would the need to incorporate one specific thing Diana asked him to build for her when he's clearly doing it regularly? Same for the lightning blasts ... Azz created the new ability in the bracers and uses it more than anyone and she never sits around discussing the various weapons she's used them to generate ... Talking about the lightning (which, incidentally happened after Azzarelo's timeline) would serve no purpose except for Azzarello to acknowledge another writers idea.

    The sword strap is sloppy. She's wearing it in the same issue where Soule also has her pull the friggin sword out of her bracer. I wouldn't care if he actually just ignored the bracers.

  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius View Post
    You are talking about him not rehashing stuff from other writers storylines ... No one does that. It's not like we hear from every writer who touches her about how Hermes feather gave her flight. What could Azzarello include about any of those things that makes them better or adds to the character? Azzarello uses Hephaestus all the time, why would the need to incorporate one specific thing Diana asked him to build for her when he's clearly doing it regularly? Same for the lightning blasts ... Azz created the new ability in the bracers and uses it more than anyone and she never sits around discussing the various weapons she's used them to generate ... Talking about the lightning (which, incidentally happened after Azzarelo's timeline) would serve no purpose except for Azzarello to acknowledge another writers idea.

    The sword strap is sloppy. She's wearing it in the same issue where Soule also has her pull the friggin sword out of her bracer. I wouldn't care if he actually just ignored the bracers.

    The sword strap appearing isn't Johns' or Soule's fault. If anything the fault lies on Reis or Daniel. They were the artists.

    As for the Jet, lightning blasts, etc, Diana's been in all out war with the First Born and his forces for the last few issues in her book. I would think those things could have come in handy in the battle.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  13. #58
    Stop a war with love. Darius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    The sword strap appearing isn't Johns' or Soule's fault. If anything the fault lies on Reis or Daniel. They were the artists.

    As for the Jet, lightning blasts, etc, Diana's been in all out war with the First Born and his forces for the last few issues in her book. I would think those things could have come in handy in the battle.
    Semantics ... The artists are part Soule or Johns teams ... Ultimately it's on Soule or Johns to catch stuff ... Either way it's sloppy.

    It's just flat out lazy writing to reuse something like those suits Hephaestus built ... And how is the jet supposed to be useful in Hell or on Olympus when the FB has recreated both realms in his own image? Half the fun of comics is seeing the NEW ways a writer comes up with to beat the bad guy. You'd be first in line to complain if Azzarello was reusing the same devices.
    Last edited by Darius; 08-24-2014 at 05:39 PM.

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius View Post
    Semantics ... The artists are part Soule or Johns teams ... Ultimately it's on Soule or Johns to catch stuff ... Either way it's sloppy.

    It's just flat out lazy writing to reuse something like those suits Hephaestus built ... And how is the jet supposed to be useful in Hell or on Olympus when the FB has recreated both realms in his own image? Half the fun of comics is seeing the NEW ways a writer comes up with to beat the bad guy. You'd be first in line to complain if Azzarello was reusing the same devices.

    Johns and Soule are writers, not editors. It's the editor's responsibility to catch any mistakes made by the rest of the team.

    You're stressing that Azz should be using new things while fully supporting his run that in which the majority of his cast is borrowed from ancient public domain Greek myths. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As far as me being first in line to complain if Azz used the Invisible Jet, that is entirely false. I would LOVE it if Azz used the jet, Hessia, Cheetah, or anything else that Soule or Johns introduced(proving he didn't pervert them like he did Hippolyta or the Amazons).
    Last edited by Dr. Poison; 08-24-2014 at 06:31 PM.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Johns and Soule are writers, not editors. It's the editor's responsibility to catch any mistakes made by the rest of the team.

    You're stressing that Azz should be using new things while fully supporting his run that in which the majority of his cast is borrowed from ancient public domain Greek myths. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As far as me being first in line to complain if Azz used the Invisible Jet, that is entirely false. I would LOVE it if Azz used the jet, Hessia, Cheetah, or anything else that Soule or Johns introduced(proving he didn't pervert them like he did Hippolyta or the Amazons).
    I think that both soule and johns can see that the strap isn't necessary and tell it to artists and editors.
    Invisible jet,cheetah aren't new things. now new gods are. and hessia or amazon #435 the results are the same.

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