Bobby Drake: Iceman Appreciation 2018

[NewMutant]

I meant up to that point. I've really enjoyed what Grace has done with Bobby. Aaron, not so much - I deduct a lot of points from his take just for the Kitty and Warbird stuff.

Iceman has an odd history with the X-franchise/Marvel. He is an original, but never used during the iconic Claremont years. He was on the B-Team of the 90s (sorry Gold fans) and only appeared in one episode of the TAS. He was replaced with Spyke as a main cast member in Evolution. He still hasn't really been on that major, popular, flagship team. However is was a lead in Amazing Friends, followed by a high supporting role in the films, followed by the Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon. Plus he is one of the most frequently used X-Men in video games. Milligan, Carey, Liu all had decent runs with Iceman but again they were the B or C team. Aaron is arguably the first time Iceman was a major part of of an actual flagship redirection of the series. However, that series is ultimately Wolverine and friends. Extraordinary I thought would be his big break. It did get him wallpaper appearances in Marvel events, however even with a great line up and writer the series fell way flat. At the same time I think he's constantly been a supporting player since the Morrison era (where he was on the C-Team) he has been gradually building up as a mainstay and major player of the team. Coming out and having a solo has certainly helped that.

[Heroine Addict]

Iceman... I think he's constantly been a supporting player since the Morrison era (where he was on the C-Team)...

According to copies shipped, that would've been X-Treme (sorry Claremontians).

[NewMutant]

According to copies shipped, that would've been X-Treme (sorry Claremontians).

X-Treme and New tied together much more. On top of it being a much better quality title. (Sorry to the one Chuck Austen fan).

[Heroine Addict]

X-Treme and New tied together much more. On top of it being a much better quality title. (Sorry to the one Chuck Austen fan).

Just stating facts, not opinions. (Sorry to the hypersensitive?)

[Confuzzled]

He's always looked similar to Silver Surfer since he first turned to ice in the 60s. Considering though that they dont occupy the same space, what does it matter? Its not like anybody is reading X-men books and confused about which character this is intended to be

Now that the X-Men and Fantasic Four movie rights are back, Silver Surfer and he will appear in merchandising and appearances even outside of the X-World/FF corner. Heck, out of all the X-Men, Bobby and Firestar are the mutants with the most prominent non "X-Men" related appearances (not counting the MCU twins for now as their X-Gene has been erased). So there will be bound to be confusion as to who is who.

Also, it's just good branding/marketing that two characters whom you want to be prominent don't look so similar to each other.

Iceman has an odd history with the X-franchise/Marvel. He is an original, but never used during the iconic Claremont years. He was on the B-Team of the 90s (sorry Gold fans) and only appeared in one episode of the TAS. He was replaced with Spyke as a main cast member in Evolution. He still hasn't really been on that major, popular, flagship team. However is was a lead in Amazing Friends, followed by a high supporting role in the films, followed by the Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon.

My baby sis didn't even know he was supposed to be an X-Man as she was aware of him through Amazing Friends syndicated repeats and the other X-Men from the 90's show (I guess she missed the scant crossovers both shows had).

When she watched the 2000 movie for the first time, she asked "What's he doing here?" when I told her Rogue's pal was Iceman from Amazing Friends.

[Beetle]

Bobby already looks different from Silver Surfer though. He has those jagged icicles replacing his hair. He also has different X uniforms. And you know the lack of a surfboard.

I like the translucent effect, but it might mean more work for artists

[NewMutant]

Bobby already looks different from Silver Surfer though. He has those jagged icicles replacing his hair. He also has different X uniforms. And you know the lack of a surfboard.

I like the translucent effect, but it might mean more work for artists

Probably more colorist than artist. But IDK. I really liked his Extraordinary/solo design (the only one I liked aside from Colossus underrated sexy beard/hair cut). I thought it made sense with his power, looked unique, red was a nice color choice, and had a bit of flamboyance to it. The only character who can pull off the speedo is Namor. Even Beast is better with pants, etc.

[Beetle]

Probably more colorist than artist. But IDK. I really liked his Extraordinary/solo design (the only one I liked aside from Colossus underrated sexy beard/hair cut). I thought it made sense with his power, looked unique, red was a nice color choice, and had a bit of flamboyance to it. The only character who can pull off the speedo is Namor. Even Beast is better with pants, etc.

It's probably both. If he's translucent then the artist needs to draw what's behind or beneath him every time

[Havok83]

Now that the X-Men and Fantasic Four movie rights are back, Silver Surfer and he will appear in merchandising and appearances even outside of the X-World/FF corner. Heck, out of all the X-Men, Bobby and Firestar are the mutants with the most prominent non "X-Men" related appearances (not counting the MCU twins for now as their X-Gene has been erased). So there will be bound to be confusion as to who is who.

Also, it's just good branding/marketing that two characters whom you want to be prominent don't look so similar to each other.

Youre assuming that Marvel is wanting or trying to make them more prominent fixtures in the greater MU. I see no evidence of that. Even if they did, I dont think its a big deal. How many charcters did Marvel have in a Spider costumes in recent years? An Iron suit? They arent really all that botherd with simiarities

[Confuzzled]

Youre assuming that Marvel is wanting or trying to make them more prominent fixtures in the greater MU. I see no evidence of that. Even if they did, I dont think its a big deal. How many charcters did Marvel have in a Spider costumes in recent years? An Iron suit? They arent really all that botherd with simiarities

There has been a lot of older merch where they include Silver Surfer or Iceman (only heads at times) among the general MU heroes.

And the characters whom they really want to be prominent like Miles and Spider-Gwen have totally different color schemes than Peter. Everyone else like Ben Reilly are seen as secondary/tertiary in the larger scheme of things. Riri too has a new face mask.

I think there is a high chance Kevin Feige and the MCU architects will view Bobby as the most accessible LGBT superhero to introduce on the big screen. Part of a popular ensemble franchise, still counts as representation, and is a 'known' name himself.

[Havok83]

There has been a lot of older merch where they include Silver Surfer or Iceman (only heads at times) among the general MU heroes.

And the characters whom they really want to be prominent like Miles and Spider-Gwen have totally different color schemes than Peter. Everyone else like Ben Reilly are seen as secondary/tertiary in the larger scheme of things. Riri too has a new face mask.

I think there is a high chance Kevin Feige and the MCU architects will view Bobby as the most accessible LGBT superhero to introduce on the big screen. Part of a popular ensemble franchise, still counts as representation, and is a 'known' name himself.

Is a casual reader going to automatically know that Miles is different from Peter? It’s not like Peter hasn’t worn a ton of different suits over the years. There’s not just them but Kaine, Ben Reilly , Miguel, Doc Oc, the Scarlet Spiders whom all simultaneously were active with either slightly similar suits or ones that Pete himself has worn. Marvel was unbothered by this

Bobby has a spikey form. His head is easily distinguishable from Silver Surfer, not to mention, they can give him a costume which goes over his ice form like he recently had

[Confuzzled]

Is a casual reader going to automatically know that Miles is different from Peter? It’s not like Peter hasn’t worn a ton of different suits over the years. There’s not just them but Kaine, Ben Reilly , Miguel, Doc Oc, the Scarlet Spiders whom all simultaneously were active with either slightly similar suits or ones that Pete himself has worn. Marvel was unbothered by this

Bobby has a spikey form. His head is easily distinguishable from Silver Surfer, not to mention, they can give him a costume which goes over his ice fork like he recently had

I think any casual reader would instantly recognize the red lining and black costume of Miles and differentiate it from Peter (even the Venom Spider-suit). And Reilly, Kaine etc. are literal clones of Peter. Ditto for Spider-Ock who originally inhabited Peter's actual body.

I'll be okay with it if Bobby's spiky form becomes the permanent look.

[Havok83]

I think any casual reader would instantly recognize the red lining and black costume of Miles and differentiate it from Peter (even the Venom Spider-suit). And Reilly, Kaine etc. are literal clones of Peter. Ditto for Spider-Ock who originally inhabited Peter's actual body.

I'll be okay with it if Bobby's spiky form becomes the permanent look.

That’s not my point. A casual reader who sees Miles in suit is likely to assume that’s Peter wearing a new costume bc he has a history of wearing many different ones. Clones aren’t Peter and in costume that fact isn’t apparent. They still apart of your initial concerns about problematic confusion

[Confuzzled]

That’s not my point. A casual reader who sees Miles in suit is likely to assume that’s Peter wearing a new costume bc he has a history of wearing many different ones. Clones aren’t Peter and in costume that fact isn’t apparent. They still apart of your initial concerns about problematic confusion

Casual reader =/= newbie.

Also, I don't think Kaine/Ben Reilly etc. have been used in lieu of Peter in larger MU-centric merch.

[Havok83]

Casual reader =/= newbie.

Also, I don't think Kaine/Ben Reilly etc. have been used in lieu of Peter in larger MU-centric merch.

And neither has Surfer been for Iceman and vice versa