Who is the 4th pillar of the DCU?

[prepmaster]

On the Marvel side, Captain Marvel got 1 billion dollars movie as well but that doesnt save her comics.

[MadFacedKid]

On the Marvel side, Captain Marvel got 1 billion dollars movie as well but that doesnt save her comics.

She’s been consistently selling better than Flash if you look at the numbers. Again what do comic sales represent in the grand scheme of having more brand recognition? A couple users at this point told you Aquaman didn’t get cancelled due to poor comic sales which I question myself honestly but it seems to fly out both your ears nonetheless despite a writer from your preferred character saying it out of his mouth

[prepmaster]

She’s been consistently selling better than Flash if you look at the numbers. Again what do comic sales represent in the grand scheme of having more brand recognition? A couple users at this point told you Aquaman didn’t get cancelled due to poor comic sales which I question myself honestly but it seems to fly out both your ears nonetheless despite a writer from your preferred character saying it out of his mouth

but the only arguement is box office sucess then Captain Marvel should be one of Marvel's biggest sellers. She should be at least in the top 5. She would be considered a more profitable character/franchise than Hulk, Venom, Black Widow, F4, X-Men, etc...

The average sale of Aquama comics has been worse than the average sales of all DC comics. I dont think Aquaman got cancelled purely due to DC wanting to take the character more seriously. DC sees it simple: Batman sells therefore put all their efforts on more Batman spin offs. Those at the bottom got cut off.

[MoneySpider]

But WW doesnt have her comics cancelled. Comics sale wise she is still in the top 4-6 franchise or standalone character in DC. On her good days her sales is in top 3 franchise, on other days her sales would lose out to Flash/GL/Robin.

Aquaman has been doing worse. His spin off is the worst selling comics.

I might be wrong about this, but doesn't DC Comics have some sort of contract agreement with the Marston estate where they HAVE to keep publishing a Wonder Woman book in order to keep the rights to the character?

[prepmaster]

I might be wrong about this, but doesn't DC Comics have some sort of contract agreement with the Marston estate where they HAVE to keep publishing a Wonder Woman book in order to keep the rights to the character?

The Ownership of Wonder Woman

The following was posted by comics writer Kurt Busiek to the DC Comics Message Boards on 25 January 2005:

Q: For years there have been rumors that if DC were to quit publishing Wonder Woman for a certain length of time, that ownership of the character would revert back to the Martson estate. A few years ago some people on the old DC boards were stating that you had refuted those claims in a post.

So are the rumors true? Were they ever true? Or, do you just not know, one way or the other?

A: They are no longer true, but they were true for a long time — as I understand it, the terms were that DC had to publish at least four issues with "Wonder Woman" as the banner lead feature or rights would revert. That's why DC did the LEGEND OF WONDER WOMAN mini-series that I wrote and Trina Robbins drew — the Perez revamp was in development, but coming along slowly, and they had to publish something to fulfil the contract terms.

They specifically didn't want something that would be attention-getting, because they didn't want to undercut the revamp. So they wanted something gentle and nostalgic, and we had fun doing it.

In the intervening years, though, I'm given to understand that at some point DC bought the character outright, and thus those contract terms are no longer in force.

https://www.cosmicteams.com/profiles/wonderwoman.html

[caj]

As much as I love Aquaman, Flash, and Green Lantern, it has to be Dick Grayson as Robin.

As a small child, my first super heroes I ever knew about were Superman, Batman, and Robin. It wasn't until Super Friends that I had even heard of Wonder Woman or Aquaman (although I liked them immediately). It wasn't until I started reading Justice League of America that I discovered the rest of the DC universe.

[MadFacedKid]

but the only arguement is box office sucess then Captain Marvel should be one of Marvel's biggest sellers. She should be at least in the top 5. She would be considered a more profitable character/franchise than Hulk, Venom, Black Widow, F4, X-Men, etc...

The average sale of Aquama comics has been worse than the average sales of all DC comics. I dont think Aquaman got cancelled purely due to DC wanting to take the character more seriously. DC sees it simple: Batman sells therefore put all their efforts on more Batman spin offs. Those at the bottom got cut off.

No one has just been going off of cinematic success of
A movie though...

You don’t think low sales are more a sign of quality of the book then the character not being able to sell. We could bring up instances where Aquaman sold more then a lot of DC Comics and outsold a lot of more popular Marvel comics. Low sales tend to be more reflective on the state of the book. I’d agree Flash is more marketable and seems to have more importance in regards to the actual comics though and so does GL and that’s due to DC often times sidelining Aquaman. Look at what happened when Johns made him a focal point of the universe

[Aahz]

On the Marvel side, Captain Marvel got 1 billion dollars movie as well but that doesnt save her comics.

Her sales actually increased when the movie was announced, I think her comic wen from selling somewhere arroung 20K to selling above 30K. Question is just how long this boost will last.

Black Panther had iirc also increased sales when he first appeared in the MCU, but the current sales of his book where afiak pretty low.


To answer the question I think DC has only two true pillars, Batman and Superman. Who of the other 4 big six are the number 3 and 4 is really dependent on who currently has the best material out there.

[Triniking1234]

I'm not sure why Harley Quinn is being brought into this since the original thread most likely referred to full hero characters.

[bat39]

I think its the Flash.

No offence to the OP, but I just don't see Harley Quinn as a serious suggestion The Trinity comprises of characters who have shaped the legacy of DC and are pop-cultural icons with decades of standing. Harley Quinn was a popular Batman character who, through a couple of films and a cartoon, has now become a breakout hit among wider audiences. But in the larger scheme of things, you just can't put her in the same league (pun intended!) as the likes of Batman or Wonder Woman. Plus, she is ultimately a part of the Batman brand, a factor which IMO also disqualifies Robin from being the fourth pillar - even though he has a much better claim to that title.

That apart, I think its always been a toss-up between Flash, Green Lantern and Aquaman. GL was probably unofficially anointed the fourth pillar around the time his movie came out, and coming off Geoff Johns' run, but I just don't think the character has kept that momentum.

Aquaman can make the claim, being another 'survivor' of the Golden Age along with the Trinity. Plus, he's been a consistent presence in pop-culture across the decades, even if its mostly been as a meme. And off-late of course, you've had Johns' run in the comics and the movie.

But I think ultimately, and from a purely subjective viewpoint, the title belongs to the Flash. The reinvention of the Flash heralded the beginning of the Silver Age, the era which serves as the foundation for the modern DCU across media. Flash has been at the center of virtually every major DCU shakeup - discovery of the Multiverse, COIE, Flashpoint, Rebirth etc. He's had two successful TV shows that have guaranteed him a wider life in pop-culture even before his movie's out.

Now as for which Flash - honestly, for the purposes of this discussion, I think they're the same. Its the suit that really matters when it comes to the larger pop-cultural consciousness around the Flash. But if I had to pick, I'd say Barry, simply because he's the character who they reinvented the Flash with back at the dawn of the Silver Age. Wally is Barry's legacy. Also, today, Barry is THE Flash across media, so there's that too.

[Celgress]

So 4 and 5 or just tied for fourth?

Tied, but I'd give Barry a slight edge due to seniority and thus having more iconic stories under his belt.

[Jim Kelly]

It's a sad thing. When you say pillars, I think of what supports the publisher. And it used to be more than just super-heroes. In the 1950s and 1960s, it would have been characters from other genres like western, war, science fiction, romance, humour, funny animal--and even celebrities such as Bob Hope. Even in the 1970s, the horror and war anthologies accounted for a lot of the sales. Heck in the 1990s, they had Vertigo--and Morpheus was a huge character for them.

Now it's just guys running around in multi-coloured spandex.

[Lightning Rider]

I think its the Flash.

No offence to the OP, but I just don't see Harley Quinn as a serious suggestion The Trinity comprises of characters who have shaped the legacy of DC and are pop-cultural icons with decades of standing. Harley Quinn was a popular Batman character who, through a couple of films and a cartoon, has now become a breakout hit among wider audiences. But in the larger scheme of things, you just can't put her in the same league (pun intended!) as the likes of Batman or Wonder Woman. Plus, she is ultimately a part of the Batman brand, a factor which IMO also disqualifies Robin from being the fourth pillar - even though he has a much better claim to that title.

That apart, I think its always been a toss-up between Flash, Green Lantern and Aquaman. GL was probably unofficially anointed the fourth pillar around the time his movie came out, and coming off Geoff Johns' run, but I just don't think the character has kept that momentum.

Aquaman can make the claim, being another 'survivor' of the Golden Age along with the Trinity. Plus, he's been a consistent presence in pop-culture across the decades, even if its mostly been as a meme. And off-late of course, you've had Johns' run in the comics and the movie.

But I think ultimately, and from a purely subjective viewpoint, the title belongs to the Flash. The reinvention of the Flash heralded the beginning of the Silver Age, the era which serves as the foundation for the modern DCU across media. Flash has been at the center of virtually every major DCU shakeup - discovery of the Multiverse, COIE, Flashpoint, Rebirth etc. He's had two successful TV shows that have guaranteed him a wider life in pop-culture even before his movie's out.

Now as for which Flash - honestly, for the purposes of this discussion, I think they're the same. Its the suit that really matters when it comes to the larger pop-cultural consciousness around the Flash. But if I had to pick, I'd say Barry, simply because he's the character who they reinvented the Flash with back at the dawn of the Silver Age. Wally is Barry's legacy. Also, today, Barry is THE Flash across media, so there's that too.

Excellent points.

[stargazer01]

Sales wise? Definitely Harley Quinn.

I like Flash being the fourth member. Not only does he have a long line of legacy characters like the Trinity, but he also fills a more unique role in the trinity in that he has superpowers, but they're a type of man made power created by science.

I know people like Aquaman, but the Trinity are all distinctly separate in their own ways. Aquaman inhabits that same mythic sphere that Wonder Woman does, so adding him feels crowded with magical/mystical/legendary characters.

Aquaman feels very different to Wonder Woman to me. Magic has many variations, and Aquaman is the King of the seas. He controls a very different area than Diana. He can communicate with sea animals and in the ocean is probably more powerful than Diana. His mythos is well developed too and his movie was a big hit.

I know the Flash is getting very popular, and remember he is also about speed, but Superman can also fly very fast haha. It doesn't mean their powers are the same.

Sales wise, I vote for the Joker. His movie did better than BvS and Batman Begins. I think the Suicide Squad movie did as well at the Box Office, not for Harley, but for Joker, Will Smith and Batman. Harley's own movie wasn't a bit hit. And she was front and center.

[Cap808]

I voted for Aquaman. If people have to ask, "Which one?" when you list Flash and Green Lantern, then it's harder to put them in front of Aquaman.