Who is the 4th pillar of the DCU?

[Alpha]

how about google trends, comics websites views? They all line up quite nicely to make an argument for the Flash being the 4th.

The Flash simply has a more devoted fanbase than Aquaman.

If you're going by comics sales I don't know why you would put Wonder Woman in n3. If you're going by google trends, Barry Allen and Wally West are both far behind Arthur Curry. Flash has a bunch of different meanings including an app.

[prepmaster]

If you're going by comics sales I don't know why you would put Wonder Woman in n3. If you're going by google trends, Barry Allen and Wally West are both far behind Arthur Curry. Flash has a bunch of different meanings including an app.

But WW doesnt have her comics cancelled. Comics sale wise she is still in the top 4-6 franchise or standalone character in DC. On her good days her sales is in top 3 franchise, on other days her sales would lose out to Flash/GL/Robin.

Aquaman has been doing worse. His spin off is the worst selling comics.

[the COMET]

Green Lantern Hal Jordan. In the Johns era he was as big as Batman and Superman, but then the movie came out...
Now the damage seems to have finally passed, Hal can be the focus of attention again.

[Vordan]

I voted for Harley because she’s the star of a cartoon, an upcoming movie (TSS), two video game franchises (Suicide Squad and Injustice). It should be either Flash or Aquaman but DC has screwed them both up. Still that BoP flopped means that her position is no more secure than Hal’s was. Would love to see Aquaman take the spot since he’s got another movie and cartoon series coming so maybe he can unseat Harley.

[Celgress]

The Flash (Barry or Wally), IMO.

[MadFacedKid]

The Flash (Barry or Wally), IMO.

So 4 and 5 or just tied for fourth?

[MadFacedKid]

I see you split the vote to favor aquaman.

Why wouldn’t different characters be split up? If your going to argue Flash, GL or Robin were the fourth pillar up there with The Trinity wouldn’t you hold them to the same standard and pick the character with that alias to stand next to them. Cause Wally and Barry are two different characters are they not?

None of the Trinity have that issue of having to have 3 or 4 characters to dispute on who holds the name sake. There’s no doubt in anyone’s mind that Bruce Wayne is The Batman and the most popular one. Or that Diana prince is the most iconic take on Wonder Woman.

[Samm]

I see you split the vote to favor aquaman.

Of course I split the vote. Barry Allen and Wally West are two completely different characters, likewise for Hal Jordan and John Stewart. Why would I list them all together?

[married guy]

For me, this one is pretty easy.
Barry Allen.
The character ushered in the Silver Age of DC and his death saw the end of the Bronze Age.
The Flash is the fourth pillar.

[lemonpeace]

I feel like "The Trinity" or the three pillar thing is kinda an artificial thing spour out of them being the first ones; realistically it's been more of a two man "pillar" system, and it's more so "crutches" than pillars. however, let's not get too bogged down into that, I think when looking at brand reverence, the supposed "fourth" pillar usually is whoever is on the hottest streak at the time. it was Barry for a time, then it was Hal, it was sorta Harley fir a bit, but I think right now we're in a golden era of Aquaman content. his brand has been spotty but his iconic status is undeniable plus he's had like a decade of all hits no misses; and the movie alleyed that perfectly. Aquaman has been DC's dark horse for a while.

[Killerbee911]

There is no actual 4th pillar of DC, but currently, Aquaman has the best chance at potentially filling that position.

Best Potential?

Comics. Flash has run nearly uncancelled since inception, Aquaman has been canceled couple times with decent breaks, It is currently canceled even after a Billion dollar movie. Flash is the model of consistency in comics sales, It might not be a top ten book but it consistent a 25 book doesn't get canceled. Flash and Wonder Woman are what I used as a median to judge successful books outside of the top ten.

Media: Flash has had 2 tv shows, And has longest current running tv superhero show right now. Flash is also getting a movie. Aquaman has 1 billion dollar movie.(apparently upcoming cartoon) Aquaman was taken off roster for the Justice League cartoon

Merchandise: I have zero proof, I tend to believe Flash stuff does better than Aquaman, And given that Flash has more media appearances, I am guessing he has more stuff.

Pop Culture: Aquaman was a long running joke for being lame, Flash is associated with speed to point he is regular reference for a fast athlete

Last thoughts Aquaman is flawed concept design. Arthur is just not built to be successful on land which hurts him in the long run. Barry had a problem where the Wally was kinda as popular than him but DC pick Barry as "The flash" and finally is working Wally out as his own independent entity so he is really a threat to Barry anymore. Futhermore Aquaman struggles to breakout of the shadow of Superman, Wonder Woman while on Justice League. The current Justice League has him with Hippolyta, Black Adam, Superman and Naomi. Flash firmly has a role that doesn't mess with the Bricks types and two of the biggest Icons in comics. That is problem for Aquaman because it hurts his ability to shine and stick around.

I don't see Aquaman with more potential to me he will have nice little modern run then cool off when his general issue in design show up. Aquaman is white luke cage with a magic trident, that can control sea creatures which is actually lot more amazing than I make it sound but until they find place of usefulness among his peers he won't have long term success because other heroes make his niche feel inadequate. Barry Allen feels do or die with up coming movie this movie will either cement his status or leave him as middle tier guy. His potential is DC Spiderman but with speed. I tend to be optimistic about flash on the big screen because visual super speed has been done well with the two quicksilver scenes in the X-men and Superman vs Justice League showing off superspeed. I don't see optimism people have Aquaman with his track record.

[Johnny]

But which Flash? There’s Barry, Wally and Jay? All three replaced the other for a given time period unlike say the Trinity or Aquaman where Bruce has always been Batman, Clark has always been Superman and Diana has always been Wonder Woman, there are no competing versions. The same is true for Aquaman, Arthur is Aquaman. Can’t say the same for Flash, Robin or Green Lantern.

I voted Aquaman. He’s iconic, he has the most successful DC film of all time, he has popular spin-offs (Mera, Kaldur...etc) and his own mythology he doesn’t share with anyone else.

Same. Currently Harley may be more promoted than anyone else on the poll, but all things considered it's undoubtedly Aquaman.

[M L A]

Like are we talking just comics or just pop culture? Or both?

Because Harley blows just about everybody out of the water, not just in comics but in other media and the general public going by how many statues, cosplays, merch etc she's had. And how her show did better than expected. She's especially popular among younger women who like her for being funny/zany and for her relationships with Ivy and Joker. Speaking of Joker, pop culture wise he knocks Harley down to 5 and comics wise probably could too if they didn't just trot him out every other month to murder an entire city and run away giggling.

Green Lantern's momentum as a franchise was ruined in comics AND other media when the movie so his time as a fourth pillar was gone the second that movie came out and was solidified comics wise when Johns stepped off the title.

Flash is probably right behind or on par with Harley now with how well the show does and how well his comic did. Merch/cosplay wise don't know how well it does compared to Harley but I do see people walking around with the logo on a shirt, even if some of them may think it's from big bang theory.

And Aquaman... oof, poor Arthur. At least he got rid of the "lame and talks to fish" stigma. One movie that did well doesn't make Aquaman a "fourth pillar" especially how it didn't really impact pop culture.. once the movie's run was done it seemed like everybody just forgot about it beyond getting pointed at to prove others wrong when they say "DC only makes grim movies". And then comics wise he does the worst out of all the big 6 (I bet he's glad MMH and Cyborg exist). Even when Dick isn't himself he managed to sell on par with or better than poor Arthur lol. Really I'd put even the cartoon lineup of Titans and Nightwing/Robin-as-an-idea above Aquaman tbh, both comics wise and in pop culture.

[Killerbee911]

Like are we talking just comics or just pop culture? Or both?

I think it is collective all things we are talking about here. If Joker could be antihero he would be number 3 at DC easy but the fact that he is villain and has to be rested at times or else people get tired of him which is keeps him out of list for me. Also there is a question with Robin, Joker and Catwoman how much success is their own how much belongs to batman and how well could they stand completely on their own . If those characters could never have Batman or Batman connected stuff in their content how well would do they do?

Anyways it is fun topic that creates discussion but if I wasn't play along that there had to be 4th would l do it like this

Tier 1 Batman
Tier 2 Superman & Wonder Woman
Tier 3 Harley Quinn, Joker, Robin, Aquaman, Barry Allen, Shazam, Hal Jordan, Catwoman
Tier 4 Supergirl, Batgirl, Green Arrow, Lex Luthor, Superboy, Deathstroke, Lois Lane, Black Lighting, Swamp Thing, John Constantine, John Stewart, Wally West
Tier 5 Blue Beetle, Hawkman, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Stargirl ,Beast Boy

Being real these character fit better in loose tiers than some hard listing, We know they aren't 3 pillars right now, It is foundation built on built on Batman. And we know after Superman and Wonder Woman everyone has flawed case with positives and negatives. There is really a group for next spot where everyone has a legit case.

[Robotman]

Depends on your definition of pillar. If it’s a character who sells the most merchandise and is one of the most marketable, I’d go with Harley. That would be a pillar in the sense that she supports a lot of the DC brand weight.