Falcon and The Winter Soldier

[PCN24454]

Is it possible Walker was simply meant to be a symbol to help with despair post-blip, but he took it too seriously? As in, minus the SS he was never meant to really replace Steve but somehow he's the only one that wasn't in on that fact? Or at least deluded himself to think he could prove folks wrong, that he could be as good as Steve or even better.

Why wouldn't you take being Captain America seriously?

[Nate Grey]

Why wouldn't you take being Captain America seriously?

Cause he's not Steve Rogers? Or someone affiliated with Steve Rogers (Sam)? This isn't the same as considering them a joke, by the way, like I theorized the idea is to have a symbol to get people through tough times (post-blip).

Had Sam kept the shield when Steve gave it to him, there's no telling what he could have turned it into. Since he didn't, the government got involved and they turned it into...whatever they felt was best, good or bad.

[AnakinFlair]

Is it possible Walker was simply meant to be a symbol to help with despair post-blip, but he took it too seriously? As in, minus the SS he was never meant to really replace Steve but somehow he's the only one that wasn't in on that fact? Or at least deluded himself to think he could prove folks wrong, that he could be as good as Steve or even better.

That would actually track with what happened to Steve after he got the serum. He was under the impression he'd be sent to the front lines immediately; instead, he was sent on a publicity tour to drum up support for the war and to sell war bonds. It wasn't until he finally put himself in the field that he started being an actual soldier fighting the war.

That same story is playing out with Walker. He's introduced in a media blitz, and seems to be more of a PR stunt than anything else. Even going after the Flag Smashers probably sounded like an easy gig for those in charge- they didn't know they were Super Soldiers until they faced them the first time. And Walker, like Steve, thought that becoming Captain America would mean he could be a force for good in the world. It's just that, despite all his accomplishments and commendations, Walker just doesn't have the same heart as Steve Rodgers.

[Frontier]

This kind of reminds me that we saw Rhodey as Iron Patriot going on terrorist raids in IM3. Is Rhodey still on-call like that? He was the only Avenger, outside the SHIELD ones, who was basically working for the government.

[godisawesome]

This kind of reminds me that we saw Rhodey as Iron Patriot going on terrorist raids in IM3. Is Rhodey still on-call like that? He was the only Avenger, outside the SHIELD ones, who was basically working for the government.

He was apparently still susceptible to a court martial in Infinity War, and unlike Sam, showed up to the shield ceremony at the Smithsonian wearing his dress uniform. But we haven’t seen him operating under clear military command unless we take his arrest of the boys in Civil War as an example. He could have been an official “military liaison.”

[Scott Taylor]

That would actually track with what happened to Steve after he got the serum. He was under the impression he'd be sent to the front lines immediately; instead, he was sent on a publicity tour to drum up support for the war and to sell war bonds. It wasn't until he finally put himself in the field that he started being an actual soldier fighting the war.

That same story is playing out with Walker. He's introduced in a media blitz, and seems to be more of a PR stunt than anything else. Even going after the Flag Smashers probably sounded like an easy gig for those in charge- they didn't know they were Super Soldiers until they faced them the first time. And Walker, like Steve, thought that becoming Captain America would mean he could be a force for good in the world. It's just that, despite all his accomplishments and commendations, Walker just doesn't have the same heart as Steve Rodgers.

Well, and Steve Rogers never saw war prior to becoming a super soldier. Walker came into the role a seasoned veteran, with PTSD, traumatized and morally conflicted over his service. Steve started out as Captain America as an innocent, idealistic young teenager and pretty much stayed that way. People forget that he was only 18-20 in TFA because he looks much older. He's just a kid. Walker is, what, in his 30s? Steve had been bullied, but thats not quite the same as going to war!

Rogers acted like he could relate to guys like Sam or Walker, but he couldn't possibly relate to all of it. Thats not a knock on Steve, but its part of why he was the way he was.

[Midvillian1322]

Another hyped cameo and I'm a little underwhelmed.

spoilers:

Love her as an actress but iono if her playing the Contessa does anything for me. Maybe the implications are either Hydra is back or She's a skrull. Don't really know. Anyway epsidoe was great though and can't wait to see Sam in that suit.

end of spoilers

[Killerbee911]

I didn't expect this I am presently surprised with this episode I thought that "the thing" wouldn't happen in this show but it looks like we are going to get a large dose of it. This obviously was an all set-up episode leaving the last episode to be nothing but payoff which is good.

[Dzetoun]

Another hyped cameo and I'm a little underwhelmed.

spoilers:

Love her as an actress but iono if her playing the Contessa does anything for me. Maybe the implications are either Hydra is back or She's a skrull. Don't really know. Anyway epsidoe was great though and can't wait to see Sam in that suit.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I thought Julia Louis-Dreyfus was a very interesting choice as the Contessa, and with her 13 Emmys we can’t say Marvel was lying about it being a well-known and celebrated actor. With the character’s *complicated* history she could be anything from hero to villain to any point in-between. I do wonder if they will make mention of her role as Nick Fury’s longtime love interest.

end of spoilers

[j9ac9k]

I didn't expect this I am presently surprised with this episode I thought that "the thing" wouldn't happen in this show but it looks like we are going to get a large dose of it. This obviously was an all set-up episode leaving the last episode to be nothing but payoff which is good.

They did give us a big fight scene at the beginning.

[Killerbee911]

They did give us a big fight scene at the beginning.

I am in no way disappointed with that fight( or the episode itself) but even that was to set up everything that happens after. In hindsight previous episode needed to be more over the top and big if they were going to slow it down and build like this but that is nitpicking. But this episode was clearly them taking a breath closing up some of the small stuff plotlines and building everything up for the finale. Obvious they are people who are going to complain about the lack of action but the meat of the episode with Sam and Bradley hit home for me. The walker stuff was pretty interesting too.

[lowfyr]

Great episode. Esp. the Sam and Bucky moments or the training(even if Sam nearly lost his head during this^^).
Can't wait for the last one.

And seeing Daniel Brühl as Zemo I always think he would have made a great Doom.

[The Gold Stream]

was ok, def in the camp that thinks it was too slow

great choreography in opening fight, the isaiah schmaltz + sam's family dragged on a bit. if they try and wrap up buckey's personal stuff (like with the asian dad in the first episode) i hope they knock it out more quickly

that said it had some good setups at least

also sam's training montage was cool, unlike that boat montage

spoilers:

i liked the mention of "The Raft". maybe john will wind up the warden there like in the thunderbolts

end of spoilers

[Besouro]

What a SUPERB ep....I was COMPELLED to watch it twice back-to-back.

But what is this left wing vs right wing shenaningan complaints about Falcon & WS.

[godisawesome]

Either Sharon is the Power Broker, or who the Power Broker is really won’t matter. Having her be the Power Broker feels a bit too “We don’t know what to do with her, maybe make her a super villain?” to me, but if they role that way, whatever.

The Walker vs Sam and Bucky fight was pretty good, though I’ll bet we’re going to see Sam handle him one-on-one in the finale when it all comes down to it.

Isaiah’s debriefing of Sam was powerful acting, that used enough real world precedent to justify what to others may seem like melodrama - the Tuskegee Experiments were a real atrocity, and not only took place in the real world, but in Marvel, would take place with Hydra in the background.

Walker... I’m feeling they may be setting him up for a full villainous turn as Captain America, but I think it’ll come down to how Sam subdues him and what form his USAgent ID will take... as well as what symbol or storyline the Contessa’s card reveals.

It’s blank now, but that’s obviously because it’s going to reveal it’s sigil at a later date. Now, I don’t think they’d have something like “Dark Avengers” on the card, because that’s just a bit too on the nose. However, I could see either a Thunderbolts symbol, or a HAMMER logo.

I’d still use both Thunderbolts and Dark Avengers at the same time: have on the one hand ex-villains seeking redemption in the ‘Bolts and more outright villains masquerading as the heroes as the Dark Avengers... partially so you could have the ‘Bolts taken out by the DAs in a wonderfully useful example of in-universe propaganda and out-of-universe loathsomeness.