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  1. #1876
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    It fairness, his family died in a situation the Avengers instigated. Even after all the harm Ultron did, they were still regarded as heroes
    Interesting question here: are the Avengers (the group) responsible for Ultron's acts?

    Yeah, Stark created him ( without telling the team). But Ultron decided all on his own that his hard coded programmed task of protecting Humanity was futile and pointless given how warlike Humanity is.

    So Ultron decided he was going fufill his duty by bombing Humanity back to the stone age and leading whatever post-apocolyptic cave folk were left. In Vision's body so he could look like a God to those cave folk. When this plan fails, Ultron then gets even crazier ideas and decides that he is going blow everything up completely and start from scratch.

    Is Scarlet Witch responsible for activating Tony's paranoias? Is Tony responsible for building an A.I. without consulting his team or considering the implications of it? Are the Avengers responsible for not watching Stark closer for symptoms of mad scientist syndrome?

    Or is Ultron a Cyber @$$hole who is responsible for himself? After all, Vision is an AI also and HE turned out ok.

  2. #1877
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    Interesting question

  3. #1878
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    Yeah, all the outrage directed at Tony for making an AI seemed to slide right past how Jarvis was an actual AI who was an okay guy

  4. #1879
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    The Mind stone is supposedly partially culpable, but idk how much. AoU wasn't really clear enough

  5. #1880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Interesting question here: are the Avengers (the group) responsible for Ultron's acts?

    Yeah, Stark created him ( without telling the team). But Ultron decided all on his own that his hard coded programmed task of protecting Humanity was futile and pointless given how warlike Humanity is.

    So Ultron decided he was going fufill his duty by bombing Humanity back to the stone age and leading whatever post-apocolyptic cave folk were left. In Vision's body so he could look like a God to those cave folk. When this plan fails, Ultron then gets even crazier ideas and decides that he is going blow everything up completely and start from scratch.

    Is Scarlet Witch responsible for activating Tony's paranoias? Is Tony responsible for building an A.I. without consulting his team or considering the implications of it? Are the Avengers responsible for not watching Stark closer for symptoms of mad scientist syndrome?

    Or is Ultron a Cyber @$$hole who is responsible for himself? After all, Vision is an AI also and HE turned out ok.
    The old Hank Pym debate...

  6. #1881
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    even if ultron is responsible for himself, its a fact that his creation was able to happen due to the avengers becoming a powerful and resourceful group to make him without anyone to stop them. there's a reason he also compared them to the nazis even though only red skull was technically their only superpowered individual, he sees a group that has amassed a lot of power that can do anything they want.

  7. #1882
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    I am probably being a little to harsh in asking that Zemos motivations be really clear. That isn't really reality regarding people who do bad things. They are not 100% consistent for the things they do and the reasons they do them. So I think I am probably asking to many questions as far as that goes. Really all that matters is how he justifies his actions toward whomever in his mind. Its his mind after all.

  8. #1883
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    well do remember that he was executing hydra remnants prior to going against the avengers and also killed the guy who remade the SSS even though he was just a normal human. so its not like he's only against people powered by SSS or have super powers, its just that in the context of the situation and circumstances he was focused on people who were committing terrorist acts and took the SSS. im sure if he was busted out to help in something like armor wars against people with powered suits he'd help take out them and the inventors.

  9. #1884
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercover View Post
    well do remember that he was executing hydra remnants prior to going against the avengers and also killed the guy who remade the SSS even though he was just a normal human. so its not like he's only against people powered by SSS or have super powers, its just that in the context of the situation and circumstances he was focused on people who were committing terrorist acts and took the SSS. im sure if he was busted out to help in something like armor wars against people with powered suits he'd help take out them and the inventors.
    I don't think that there was any indication that Zemo was going after Hydra before Age of Ultron. Hating them isn't the same as hunting them.

  10. #1885
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I don't think that there was any indication that Zemo was going after Hydra before Age of Ultron. Hating them isn't the same as hunting them.
    Agreed. He hunted down one particular Hydra guy, because said guy had the tool Zemo needed for triggering The Winter Soldier. He wasn't a Hydra fan, but Zemo wasn't out to burn their remnants to the ground.
    Last edited by DrNewGod; 05-04-2021 at 01:18 PM.

  11. #1886
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    The whole Zemo becoming a Baron thing amuses me.

    Technically, he's only a Baron because Ultron dropped a city on his dad (and wife and son), and he inherited the job. But he doesn't seem inclined to be grateful.

    And now he says that Sokovia has been swallowed up by surrounding countries and no longer exists. (One of those surrounding countries *IS* going to be revealed to be Latveria. Fight me.) So he's not really much of a Baron anyway, since I'm pretty sure noble titles conferred by countries that don't exist are worth exactly bupkiss.

    I wonder if it could be that we never saw his murder-butler back in the day because the murder-butler was off doing other stuff. The MCU has been good at digging back into it's own past, using Chitauri tech in the first Spider-Man movie, using Tony's 'BARF' holographic stuff in the second Spider-Man movie, etc. so it could be funny to find out that Zemo's flunky was active behind the scenes in the Civil War days, setting stuff up or gathering intel or whatever.

    Perhaps it'd make more sense if Zemo married into wealth.

  12. #1887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou_Kayge View Post
    Perhaps it'd make more sense if Zemo married into wealth.
    I think him being wealthy makes a certain amount of sense. Reviewing Hydra files, buying/building an EMP devise, scoping out who would be used to evaluate Barnes after capture, those things take time, effort and patience. And as Zemo said during Civil War, he had plenty of those.

    Bob off the street still needs to cover the rent. But if Zemo's not worried about essentials, he can focus on more important matters

  13. #1888
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    I figure Zemo belonged to a nationalistic right wing faction of Sokovia’s civil wars, one that may have begun as a monarchist group, and that chances are his family may have been exiled a few times and probably officially stripped of the family title some time ago... but they insisted on being addressed by the title, and either through liquidating their assets before Somovia collapsed or through blunder, became “robber barons” for a time.

    Zemo feels like someone who grew mildly disenchanted with whatever cause he had in Somovia’s history; he still enjoys the privileges of his family’s former nobility, and may even have insisted on it enough for “Baron” to become an alias in the underworld, but he’s fairly unconcerned otherwise.
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  14. #1889
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    Odd tangent that I don't know if it's been brought up before- but did anyone else notice that Rhodey wasn't wearing his leg braces in Episode 1? He was in his dress uniform, but the braces he's worn since the end of Civil War were gone. I wonder if that was supposed to imply he had somehow gotten his spine fixed, or if that was a continuity error.

  15. #1890
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Odd tangent that I don't know if it's been brought up before- but did anyone else notice that Rhodey wasn't wearing his leg braces in Episode 1? He was in his dress uniform, but the braces he's worn since the end of Civil War were gone. I wonder if that was supposed to imply he had somehow gotten his spine fixed, or if that was a continuity error.
    I just figured he had bigger pants to hide them

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