Falcon and The Winter Soldier

[godisawesome]

Alright, so now we’re getting a an actual fight with Walker teased...

...Though I’m seeing lots of ways to get to those scenes of Walker in his dress uniform, and for Sam to get the shield and practice with it.

It’s possible that Sam and Bucky (...mostly Sam) manage to get Walker to stand down and report back to the United States for discipline. It’s also possible they flat out subdue him here and turn him into the GRC/US authorities themselves.

Then I’m feeling like the scene of Walker in his uniform is going to come with some kind of court martial scene or something, either here or at the end of the season. If it’s here, then I wouldn’t be surprised if this is where the Power Broker gets revealed as some functionary in the government with the GRC, who now tries to use Walker as a further tool for authority and power by “letting him off the hook.”

Maybe then Sam and Bucky steal the shield?

[BeastieRunner]

I have a hard time staying with this show, too.

I enjoy it but I'm not burning down my to-do list to get to it first thing Friday like I was with the early Netflix Marvel shows or WandaVision.

Winter Solider's toxic masculinity works for me because he's a man out of time and the internalizing of feelings and not dealing with them seems apropos of somebody that read the Hobbit when it came out. I think that is what was referenced to earlier about the toxic masculinity. I suspect Bucky dealing with with emotions and guilt will have a payoff later. I wouldn't expect either of my WWII war hero grandfathers to embrace modern mental health without some machismo resistance first. One of my grandfathers looked upon about his fellow sailors for being "shell shocked" aka what we now call PTSD. They weren't "man enough" to handle it. My other grandfather who fought in Manila, Bougainvill, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, and other Pacific Theater beach storms I think would be more like how Bucky reacted in the first 2 episodes, so that actually worked for me. I could see that grandfather coming around to it and I suspect Bucky will, too. I hope there's more of that after episode 2.

The Falcon not getting a loan worked for me, too. Sam is basically an ex-con trying to get a loan. Doesn't matter if you saved the world, banks don't care. The racial part of it seemed spot on, too. Are we gonna get more Isiah Bradley? Because that whole exchange and the fallout of never telling people about him is a nice storyline beat that I fully expect them to drop. I've been talking with my friends in the street and in a pulled over car with my friends that have had conversations like they did with the police after the house. I was expecting Sam to get arrested to turn all those cliche story beats into the drive of the rift between Sam/Bucky but was pleasantly surprised they arrested Bucky. That actually might be a moment that is important later in the show for healing their rift.

My main issue is that the plot just seems to be about moving towards the next action set piece, a gripe I had with other other Captain America sequels. After Black Panther, Captain Marvel, IW/Endgame, and especially WandaVision ... I want a little more storytelling than just "standard superhero fare". Maybe this gets better after episode 2 but like I said, I am in no hurry. There just doesn't seem to be that "oomph" that makes me rabid to watch it the second I can. I still enjoy it and want to finish it, it just feels like it is lacking some pop. IMHO.

[inisideguy]

I do think covid affected this production. Lots of scenes of them walking down street, fighting in empty buildings. I know they couldn't help it, but sometimes the production on this show doesnt seem much different than a cw show arrow show. They have had some big scenes but I do have the feeling that covid affected what they really wanted to do.

[inisideguy]

I have a hard time staying with this show, too.

I enjoy it but I'm not burning down my to-do list to get to it first thing Friday like I was with the early Netflix Marvel shows or WandaVision.

Winter Solider's toxic masculinity works for me because he's a man out of time and the internalizing of feelings and not dealing with them seems apropos of somebody that read the Hobbit when it came out. I think that is what was referenced to earlier about the toxic masculinity. I suspect Bucky dealing with with emotions and guilt will have a payoff later. I wouldn't expect either of my WWII war hero grandfathers to embrace modern mental health without some machismo resistance first. One of my grandfathers looked upon about his fellow sailors for being "shell shocked" aka what we now call PTSD. They weren't "man enough" to handle it. My other grandfather who fought in Manila, Bougainvill, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, and other Pacific Theater beach storms I think would be more like how Bucky reacted in the first 2 episodes, so that actually worked for me. I could see that grandfather coming around to it and I suspect Bucky will, too. I hope there's more of that after episode 2.

My main issue is that the plot just seems to be about moving towards the next action set piece, a gripe I had with other other Captain America sequels. After Black Panther, Captain Marvel, IW/Endgame, and especially WandaVision ... I want a little more storytelling than just "standard superhero fare". Maybe this gets better after episode 2 but like I said, I am in no hurry. There just doesn't seem to be that "oomph" that makes me rabid to watch it the second I can. I still enjoy it and want to finish it, it just feels like it is lacking some pop. IMHO.

Its a decent show. Like I said I think some of the production was affected by covid 19. It sure as heck to me doesnt have the I have to see what happens next week that say the mandalorian did. If you just watch scene to scene they don't have a lot of extras, a typical agent of shield episode has more people in it. Lots of sitting around in a room talking. Walking down the street. Fighting in a building then moving to the next fight scene 10 minutes later fighting in the same or similar building. But they had to work with what they had to work with.

[BeastieRunner]

I do think covid affected this production. Lots of scenes of them walking down street, fighting in empty buildings. I know they couldn't help it, but sometimes the production on this show doesnt seem much different than a cw show arrow show. They have had some big scenes but I do have the feeling that covid affected what they really wanted to do.

Its a decent show. Like I said I think some of the production was affected by covid 19. It sure as heck to me doesnt have the I have to see what happens next week that say the mandalorian did. If you just watch scene to scene they don't have a lot of extras, a typical agent of shield episode has more people in it. Lots of sitting around in a room talking. Walking down the street. Fighting in a building then moving to the next fight scene 10 minutes later fighting in the same or similar building. But they had to work with what they had to work with.

I edited my OG post a bit.

I can see your point yet that is not what is bugging me. On the contrary, it looks very nice and everything feels lived in. It feels like a world that is trying to get started again after something big happened. The sameness I didn't really notice till you brought it up. Now I can't unsee it, haha!

The main story just comes across as slightly contrived ways to setup action moments as apposed to setting up things that feel organic and, I hate to say it, "earned." But maybe that is a theme here?

I will let you know after I watch 3 & 4 sometime soon.

[inisideguy]

I edited my OG post a bit.

I can see your point yet that is not what is bugging me. On the contrary, it looks very nice and everything feels lived in. It feels like a world that is trying to get started again after something big happened. The sameness I didn't really notice till you brought it up. Now I can't unsee it, haha!

The main story just comes across as slightly contrived ways to setup action moments as apposed to setting up things that feel organic and, I hate to say it, "earned." But maybe that is a theme here?

I will let you know after I watch 3 & 4 sometime soon.

I like the Journey of the characters, walker, sam, Bucky ect. But I can't wrap my head around the main plot. These terrorist/ freedom fighters, have some sort of motivation that really isn't clear or I don't even know that I care what it is. They seem to be mad about something about being kicked out of their homes and others. But I am having a difficult time getting invested in their issue.

[80sbaby]

I have a hard time staying with this show, too.
Winter Solider's toxic masculinity works for me because he's a man out of time and the internalizing of feelings and not dealing with them seems apropos of somebody that read the Hobbit when it came out. I think that is what was referenced to earlier about the toxic masculinity.

I figured that may be what was meant as well. In which case, I highly disagree with using that term. Bucky isn't being closed off due feeling that showing emotion is somehow a weakness. He's holding back because said memories/feelings are VERY painful and he also feels ashamed of his past (despite it not being his fault.) His hesitation to open p stems from his being a good person and trying to come to grips with the horrors he's both seen and participated in.

Now contrast this with something like the show SEAL Team. Without posting spoilers, that show clearly portrays the casts' mental issues as stemming from "toxic masculinity." They don't open and and try to push through because they literally think emotions can be a weakness and make them less effective. They don't acknowledge any trauma, physical or mental, because of how "tough" they want to think of themselves. That's not what's going on with Bucky at all.

[ChrisIII]

So there's a rumor of another signifigant character making an MCU debut next episode. I'm guessing Rick Jones is the most likely candidate, given a solo Hulk project is still unlikely and Rick has also been heavily involved in Cap's circle when he's not with Bruce.

[Scott Taylor]

I really feel like the show has great acting and dialogue. More than Wandavision had in it. In WV I really only enjoyed Olson and Bettany. Couldn't stand any of the government people and the townfolk were just kinda there (including Agnes). In this one, there are just so much acting to enjoy. And the writing is interesting, I like the way they are dealing with PTSD issues - actually discussing them and finding that there are different answers for everyone.

Plus in light of Wandavision and the point of that show (to move Wanda to her next incarnation) - my expectations of this show were the same. And so far that has held and exceeded my expectations. Sam and Bucky will be in different places by the end. But they are also going to actually grow as characters, it feels like.

[DrNewGod]

The scene at the bank is the most realistic thing I've seen in the MCU. Financial institutions have been thrown completely out of wack since the the blip and the landscape became extremely competitive. Yea, Falcon saved half the universe but he wasn't paid a single dime the entire time he was an Avenger.

Furthermore, spoilers:

it gave an in-story event to ground Sam's empathy for Karli's motives in genuine understanding, rather than simply a cynical attempt at manipulation, as he knows what it's like to be unfairly treated

end of spoilers, and yet he's still trying to get her to turn from the worst path.

[Frontier]

Alright, so now we’re getting a an actual fight with Walker teased...

...Though I’m seeing lots of ways to get to those scenes of Walker in his dress uniform, and for Sam to get the shield and practice with it.

It’s possible that Sam and Bucky (...mostly Sam) manage to get Walker to stand down and report back to the United States for discipline. It’s also possible they flat out subdue him here and turn him into the GRC/US authorities themselves.

Then I’m feeling like the scene of Walker in his uniform is going to come with some kind of court martial scene or something, either here or at the end of the season. If it’s here, then I wouldn’t be surprised if this is where the Power Broker gets revealed as some functionary in the government with the GRC, who now tries to use Walker as a further tool for authority and power by “letting him off the hook.”

Maybe then Sam and Bucky steal the shield?

"I am Captain America!" Spoken like a villain.

So obviously the last moment is indicating a fight between Sam and Bucky vs Walker for the shield, but I assume that comes after Walker killed that dude while he still has the shield during that encounter with the Flag-Smashers in the city...but we also don't see Sam, so maybe he flies in with the FalCap suit?

[Immortal Weapon]

I figured that may be what was meant as well. In which case, I highly disagree with using that term. Bucky isn't being closed off due feeling that showing emotion is somehow a weakness. He's holding back because said memories/feelings are VERY painful and he also feels ashamed of his past (despite it not being his fault.) His hesitation to open p stems from his being a good person and trying to come to grips with the horrors he's both seen and participated in.

Now contrast this with something like the show SEAL Team. Without posting spoilers, that show clearly portrays the casts' mental issues as stemming from "toxic masculinity." They don't open and and try to push through because they literally think emotions can be a weakness and make them less effective. They don't acknowledge any trauma, physical or mental, because of how "tough" they want to think of themselves. That's not what's going on with Bucky at all.

Completely agree. I also like to add that the therapy Bucky was receiving wasn't helping him. Being forced into therapy with a aggressive psychologist isn't gonna get him to open up. Especially since his time in Wakanda did wonders for him as far as his mental health was concerned

[Frontier]

Completely agree. I also like to add that the therapy Bucky was receiving wasn't helping him. Being forced into therapy with a aggressive psychologist isn't gonna get him to open up. Especially since his time in Wakanda did wonders for him as far as his mental health was concerned

I think part of Bucky wishes he was still in Wakanda, although I guess now he's burned his bridges for helping Zemo.

[80sbaby]

I think part of Bucky wishes he was still in Wakanda, although I guess now he's burned his bridges for helping Zemo.

Speaking of which, I really want to know what was the last thing Ayo said to Bucky. Her calling him "James" was ominous.

[G. Boney]

Oh my goodness, pretty much everything. I felt both characters were completely different from who we met in the films. Falcon's entire 'we have no money' was incredibly unbelievable, both from the bank point-of-view and the fact he knows multiple billionaires. We're supposed to believe Pepper wouldn't give him $15,000 of her trillion dollar fortune? Winter Soldier was imbued with toxic masculinity meets emo teenager; that entire psychiatrist scene was... beyond lazy writing and incredibly cliche. It made me not root for such a whiney brat. In an attempt to make Falcon 'kewl' they have him murder multiple people at the start, and so much of that dialogue... basic action writing 101, ughhh. Shoving in characters we've never met then putting them in scenarios where they are in danger is NOT how you make us care for them, nor root for them. And I loath lazy exposition "like the time in Washington... ha, remember that time in New Guinea... oh yeah, like that time in Moscow." Ugh. You're Marvel, hire better writers. OH AND THE CLIFFHANGER. Big dramatic build up. Ominous music. "I don't want nor will accept this job (even though that whole moment in Endgame implied I would, so it makes it pointless, bet let's just skip over that a second)..." big dramatic music continues. Everyone watching TV. Dramatic dramatic. OH MY GOD!!! This guy we've never met took the job I turned down, CLIFFHANGERRRRRRRRRRR! No. You're not an idiot, you turned down a job, and so they gave that job to someone else. That's what happens with jobs. They don't just never fill it, because you said no. Maybe your financial situation does make more sense, since you're grasp of jobs and what is involved seems non-existent. LOL! And the fact THAT was the cliffhanger took any and all motivation from me to watch anymore.

Literally the only think I liked about it was the Winter Soldier flashback, because it felt like the MCU character.

Nothing we ever saw in the movies indicated that Falcon and Pepper know each other. Only times we've seen them anywhere near each other is during the final battle of Endgame and at Stark's funeral. And as far as we've been shown, he met Black Panther once as an antagonist and once as an ally during a battle to save the universe. He does not have a relationship with these people where he can ask them for money.

Sam didn't look at Cap as a "job", he looked at it as who his friend Steve was. Why would he think they'd replace Cap? They'd never done it before and there has been more time without a Cap than with one....dude was in the ice for 70 years.

If Winter Soldier is the only version of Bucky that you like...cool. But I mean, it should go without saying that isn't who he really is. This show is the first time since Captain America: The First Avenger that Bucky can get any real character development. He was a nearly silent, nearly mindless killing machine in Cap 2, and didn't have a huge part (as far as character development) in Cap 3 since that was really an Avengers movie plus he even spends time there in zombie killer mode.