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  1. #1486
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou_Kayge View Post
    I think Bucky is still consciously holding back.
    i think it is less holding back vs WS has no morals and is blood lusted. His "conscious" is turned off. only thing that matters is the mission . So there would be no hesitation or thinking whenever he is doing sometng
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  2. #1487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou_Kayge View Post
    I think Bucky is still consciously holding back.
    I don't think Bucky is holding back. It's just that his MO as the Winter Soldier is completely different from how Bucky works now.

    The Winter Soldier shot first, second, third and fourth. He never offered anyone a fair fight, always attacked from an ambush, etc. Hell, when he first attacked Cap and the others, he had a backup team who carried a gatling gun and rocket launcher.

    With an actual conscience, no guns and no backup, Bucky isn't going to be as bad ass as he was.

  3. #1488
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I don't think Bucky is holding back. It's just that his MO as the Winter Soldier is completely different from how Bucky works now.

    The Winter Soldier shot first, second, third and fourth. He never offered anyone a fair fight, always attacked from an ambush, etc. Hell, when he first attacked Cap and the others, he had a backup team who carried a gatling gun and rocket launcher.

    With an actual conscience, no guns and no backup, Bucky isn't going to be as bad ass as he was.
    That's what they meant by "holding back." As in Bucky doesn't go for the kill, so doesn't hit as hard/fast as Winter Soldier does.

  4. #1489

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    spoilers:
    ~It was Sharon all along.~
    end of spoilers

  5. #1490
    Mighty Member Vworp Vworp's Avatar
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    Big Meh from me.

    spoilers:
    After teasing Karli as a more layered villain, the last two eps just reverted her to outright generic baddie who's eventual fate was a bland and easy cop out, using another disappointingly developed female character - following Sharon's pointless heel turn. And it's all rushed out in the first half of the episode, presumably so the rest of it can be be speeches and redemption and even John getting his happy ending cos murdering people in broad daylight is fine.

    Essentially, the main message of this finale was that men are manly heroes (regardless of what they do) and women are misguided at best, and manipulative, borderline evil at worst. For all the good in the episode (and there was some), the treatment of Karli and Sharon's characters just left me cold... A feeling which was then escalated by John's literal get-out-jail-and-get-a-shiny-new-suit card. And to think people thought Sam's "That little girl kicked your ass" line would be the worst thing this show did.
    end of spoilers

    Actually, after typing this out, it's just reminded me how annoyed I was. I'm taking back my meh. And raising it to an "I hated it."
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  6. #1491
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    I was bothered by the Sharon twist. She was completely disillusioned by Cap and his allies abandoned her in Civil War. Not like they had her join them when they become fugitives post Civil War. I can buy into her turn to evil. Comic Sharon always been a morally ambiguous character so I don't see the problem here.
    end of spoilers

  7. #1492
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Just watched the final episode, It was hit and miss. It really missed on the action stuff how it was organized, to me, it felt a little rushed. But it real hit on the emotional stuff for me I was dam in near tears at certain stuff. I will give a rewatch and see how feel about it after.

    spoilers:
    I was dead wrong on Walker, They set us up to him hate so they can give him a redemption arc, I thought he was going to full villain but apparently, that is the job of Sharon Carter
    end of spoilers
    It was pretty obvious when you paid attention to the context of every situation he was in. Ya'll just hated him to him.

  8. #1493
    Wayward Member GSman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    spoilers:
    I was bothered by the Sharon twist. She was completely disillusioned by Cap and his allies abandoned her in Civil War. Not like they had her join them when they become fugitives post Civil War. I can buy into her turn to evil. Comic Sharon always been a morally ambiguous character so I don't see the problem here.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    When you actually think about it, she wasn't snapped, so she's been living like this for 7 years now. Almost an entire decade, so it is believable at least that she would be pissed at everyone, Steve included. Considering he was there for all of it and didn't do anything to help her situation.
    end of spoilers

  9. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    spoilers:
    I think Sharon is a skrull. I don't by her evil turn. I think she might play the role Jessica did in the comics during secret invasions. Veranke will end up hiding as Sharon and will be played by either Emilia Clarke or the other lady that was cast. That's my guess. And The Contessa is setting up either Thunderbolts or Dark Avengers.
    end of spoilers
    I 100% agree with this about Sharon. I think it was almost telegraphed this is the case.

    spoilers:
    When she removed her "false face" infront of Bucky...I was like this bitch is a Skrull. It is the only way I buy this character change and her nefarious actions. Her being so happy she got access to government secrets now falls right in line with a Secret Invasion storyline.
    end of spoilers

  10. #1495
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    Captain America Reborn! Seeing Sam fly in their with a comic-accurate FalCap suit straight from the comics was absolutely glorious. I'm amazed how well that suit looks in live-action. And then he's swinging that shield around, busting down bad guy, like Captain America. Sam sure knows how to make his debut like it's the climax of a Superhero movie. He even got to start off fighting Batroc, a classic Cap villain.

    Oh hey, the Wakandans rebuilt Redwing too! And they gave Sam double.

    Karli...is kind of the worst. Like, endangering and kidnapping all those people is one thing, the innocent people she's killed, claiming a soldier who fought in WW2 and was brainwashed by a terrorist organization doesn't know about causes to believe in, basically saying the guy she killed didn't matter to his best friend, and then about to shoot Sam when he was constantly trying to de-escalate the fight. Like, it is really hard for me to feel pity for her by the end.

    I gotta admit, I thought Walker was actually going to abandon the truck to get to Karli, but he saves the people and then teams-up with Sam and Bucky. He managed to redeem himself and prove he's not that far gone.

    So, yeah, Sharon Carter is the Power Broker. Of all the indignities I've seen of the MCU's treatment of Sharon Carter, a storied, historic, and iconic member of the Captain America mythos, turning her into a villain is absolutely the worst. And she also gets away with it, get her pardon, and gets her in with the government to do her Power Broker job even further. Gah, I hate this. Can this Sharon just be a Skrull?

    (Also kind of ticked she killed Batroc off, but c'est la vie).

    I can't believe Bucky and Walker stopped the rest of the Flag-Smashers by calling a SWAT team on them. Talk about mundane. And Walker may not be Steve Rogers, but he's still pretty hokey.

    I think Sam gave the Flag-Smashers too much credit, but that was a Cap level speech to the gathered people about the struggle and how important it is to work together and do right by the people whose fates you hold in your hand and may not be as privileged as you are. I think he was kind of stretching it comparing them to Thanos, but I at least got where he was coming from.

    Just in case you thought the world would still have a bunch of Super Soldiers, Zemo's butler proves to be the hidden MVP and blows them up, Zemo finally accomplishing what he set out to do and sitting pretty comfortably in his cell at The Raft. So much for the Flag-Smashers.

    Bucky finally reveals to Yori what happened to his son and finally seems at peace with himself, even if it means completely moving on. But at least he and Sam are proper buddies now.

    I'm glad Isaiah got to see Sam as a black Captain America and give him some credit, and it was terrific of Sam to make sure Isaiah got his own wing of the Captain America museum, so everyone will now always know and remember who he is and what he did for that country.

    So the Contessa turns Walker into US Agent, which is literally just a pallete swap of Walker into his US Agent colors, but I guess I'm glad things worked out for Walker. I just hope he's up to whatever is in store for him as US Agent. Will he keep his shield with the medal?

    "Captain America and the Winter Soldier" You know it.
    end of spoilers

  11. #1496
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    I 100% agree with this about Sharon. I think it was almost telegraphed this is the case.

    spoilers:
    When she removed her "false face" infront of Bucky...I was like this bitch is a Skrull. It is the only way I buy this character change and her nefarious actions. Her being so happy she got access to government secrets now falls right in line with a Secret Invasion storyline.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Or it can be just like she said. She's about to get access to a bunch of classified info that can be just as good or better than SSS. She's an arms dealer who can operate out in the open
    end of spoilers

  12. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    spoilers:
    Or it can be just like she said. She's about to get access to a bunch of classified info that can be just as good or better than SSS. She's an arms dealer who can operate out in the open
    end of spoilers
    If that is the case I don't buy it and its bad writing. You cannot just have that little line from Episode 3 of her being "hurt" that the Avengers forgot about her be the ONLY premise for the character shift. For a change that big into arms dealing, and super soldier serum brokering and hiring kidnappers and murderers. I need to SEE more than that to buy it. They would have to show me how the hell Steve was alive and going to blip support meetings in Endgame and it never occurred to him to see where Sharon was.

    And IF they believe she was gone in the blip, and she wasn't. WHY didn't she herself reach out to Steve hey I'm over here in Madripoor help me out before I have to turn evil and build an empire and ****. Her just being evil has way too many plot holes in a show that developed most of the other characters beautifully.

  13. #1498
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    If that is the case I don't buy it and its bad writing. You cannot just have that little line from Episode 3 of her being "hurt" that the Avengers forgot about her be the ONLY premise for the character shift. For a change that big into arms dealing, and super soldier serum brokering and hiring kidnappers and murderers. I need to SEE more than that to buy it. They would have to show me how the hell Steve was alive and going to blip support meetings in Endgame and it never occurred to him to see where Sharon was.

    And IF they believe she was gone in the blip, and she wasn't. WHY didn't she herself reach out to Steve hey I'm over here in Madripoor help me out before I have to turn evil and build an empire and ****. Her just being evil has way too many plot holes in a show that developed most of the other characters beautifully.
    I don't see plotholes as she's always been an underutilized character in the captain America films. We know what's she willing to do but we don't know who she is. How is her working with kidnappers and murderers a surprise. She worked for the CIA before being a fugitive. There plenty of those in that agency.

  14. #1499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I don't see plotholes as she's always been an underutilized character in the captain America films. We know what's she willing to do but we don't know who she is. How is her working with kidnappers and murderers a surprise. She worked for the CIA before being a fugitive. There plenty of those in that agency.
    We will just disagree but I respect the perspective.

  15. #1500
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I don't see plotholes as she's always been an underutilized character in the captain America films. We know what's she willing to do but we don't know who she is. How is her working with kidnappers and murderers a surprise. She worked for the CIA before being a fugitive. There plenty of those in that agency.
    Which is the whole problem.

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