Falcon and The Winter Soldier

[Frontier]

That stuff isn't on the character, That is bad writing the Flag smashers have had clear consistent code . Karli killing the people is to clearly make her "bad guy" and writers don't have deal with her being right anymore. You can't do a superhero show where you heroes are all the way wrong. And it is hard as hell to write a big hero vs bad guy conflict ending where they fight flag smashers without making them "bad". Bombing that building with people tied inside and going "This is the only language they understand" that is only time in this show they have acted like that. Flash smasher have shown they will only hurt people who directly confront them and their actions in bombing is trope where the sympathetic antagonist has to do something bad so the show can have plain ole bad guy.

Well, Wanda was basically in the wrong for most of WandaVision, it really just depended on how sympathetic you were towards her motivations and circumstances.

Erskein said explicitly that was an unperfected prototype of what he used on Steve.

Which might be why Red Skull's transformation was as dramatic as it was to the point where his face is unrecognizable.

Granted that could also be because Schmidt was evil incarnate down to his very bones, but still.

I don't think Karli is from Madripoor.

But she was there to work for Power Broker before she and her group got the serum and bolted.

[thwhtGuardian]

This episode pretty much confirmed that Bucky did in fact get some form of the serum as well.

[Immortal Weapon]

This episode pretty much confirmed that Bucky did in fact get some form of the serum as well.

That was confirmed as far back as when Bucky introduced Sam to Isaiah. He did say to him super soldiers like us.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Not saying this is what's going on, but just a thought: out of everybody we've seen get the SSS, Cap was the only one who was treated with vita-rays and the only one (with the possible exception of Isaiah), who didn't go a bit loopy. For a while, the comics held that Nomad Jack Monroe, and Crazy 50s Cap, went 'round the bend because they took the SSS without vita-ray.

There's that, plus Steve was under the microscope, literally, by the creator. One presumes that they knew his blood type, weight, etc.

Measure twice, cut once

[The Cool Thatguy]

This episode pretty much confirmed that Bucky did in fact get some form of the serum as well.

They explicitly established that back in Winter Soldier. It was what allowed him to survive his fall.

What's been implicitly established though, is that he's on the low end of being a super soldier. Steve, T'Challa and Isaiah have all overpowered him when push comes to shove.

[DrNewGod]

One thing I've got to say for F+WS and WandaVision: they both served the "MCU is too jokey" crowd an enormous spoonful of STFU.

[Immortal Weapon]

One thing I've got to say for F+WS and WandaVision: they both served the "MCU is too jokey" crowd an enormous spoonful of STFU.

They deviate from the MCU movie formula by a big margin. The stories are still straight forward but they are not shying away from exploring some serious issues.

[Frontier]

Yeah, I don't think they could pepper in as many jokes as they include in a movie on a satisfying basis for a weekly TV show without people turning off.

That being said, She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel will probably be a little more humorous depending on the approach. Loki could go either way although the stuff shown in the trailer has humor in it.

[thwhtGuardian]

That was confirmed as far back as when Bucky introduced Sam to Isaiah. He did say to him super soldiers like us.

They explicitly established that back in Winter Soldier. It was what allowed him to survive his fall.

What's been implicitly established though, is that he's on the low end of being a super soldier. Steve, T'Challa and Isaiah have all overpowered him when push comes to shove.

I rewatched them recently and it wasn't explicit what was done to him in the films though it was certainly my understanding that he was given some form of the serum, but there were several people here and elsewhere that seemed to believe that Bucky was just peak human, and that chasing cars and surviving falls and jumps from improbable heights were just things that peak humans can do in the Marvel world and the line here that flat out mentions that he has the serum puts that all to bed.

Whether he's on the low end or he's just jobbing to the heroes though, I'm not so sure.

[CosmiComic]

One thing I've got to say for F+WS and WandaVision: they both served the "MCU is too jokey" crowd an enormous spoonful of STFU.

After watching the Snyder Cut, too jokey isn't a problem I have too much anymore!

I think sometimes the humor is more misplaced, so it can undercut the drama. However, generally it works for me

[Frontier]

After watching the Snyder Cut, too jokey isn't a problem I have too much anymore!

I think sometimes the humor is more misplaced, so it can undercut the drama. However, generally it works for me

It depends on the production.

I don't think something like, say, Wonder Woman needed more jokes and it's humor, while present, was fairly subdued.

Stuff like the Waititi style of humor just comes off more like a parody to me at times and just a bit too much.

[CosmiComic]

It depends on the production.

I don't think something like, say, Wonder Woman needed more jokes and it's humor, while present, was fairly subdued.

Stuff like the Waititi style of humor just comes off more like a parody to me at times and just a bit too much.

I liked Waititi's style, I just thought jokes during the serious moments in Ragnarok were sometimes inappropriate

[Hypestyle]

spoilers:

at this point I wonder if Walker simply just mainlined the dose of serum that he palmed. But what if the other modern recipients of the serum were treated with it in another manner, perhaps more slowly or diluted? There are all sorts of risks to however he did this on his own. Did he even save any for the Pentagon scientists? It’s tough to read into this because so far Walker’s wartime service tragedies have only been glossed over so far. We don’t see where he earned those medals or what he regrets having done or not accomplished. All we know is that Walker is an America Firster and Semi-MAGA guy. I actually think the murder incident would enhance his image in the MCU United States and with the right-leaning government there. My guess is that General Thaddeus Ross wants to give him a promotion. I am severely resentful at the apparent (for now?) death of Sgt. Hoskins, Battlestar. From his first action appearance, it was apparent that the Pentagon higher ups didn’t think enough of him to provide him with his own shield (even if vibranium was not an option) or even a helmet of his own. Seriously, no helmet? To me, this is the type of grave oversight that easily falls into the implicit racial bias that goes on in these institutions. I wonder what the hell Walker’s wife is going to think about all this, she hasn’t been glimpsed since that second episode. Zemo doesn’t deserve to stay out of prison, he really needs to go back to jail. He will explicitly betray Sam and Bucky sooner not later, and he likely has no problem with murdering either of them. He’s no hero. I don’t care about his dancing. I also don’t trust that he’s not a supremacist sympathizer himself. In the comics, his father (perhaps his MCU grandfather) was a Nazi collaborator. It remains to be explained just what his family wealth comes from, and how it was maintained during the World War I and II eras, when several monarchies in Europe were overthrown.

end of spoilers

[The Cool Thatguy]

I rewatched them recently and it wasn't explicit what was done to him in the films though it was certainly my understanding that he was given some form of the serum, but there were several people here and elsewhere that seemed to believe that Bucky was just peak human, and that chasing cars and surviving falls and jumps from improbable heights were just things that peak humans can do in the Marvel world and the line here that flat out mentions that he has the serum puts that all to bed.

Whether he's on the low end or he's just jobbing to the heroes though, I'm not so sure.

Marvel's been pretty good with logical narrative, IMO. Bucky's overpowered human characters like Nat and Sam as the Winter Soldier, but has been outmatched by Steve, T'Challa and Isaiah. Cap lifted him up by the neck, T'Challa bent back his robot arm and Isaiah tore it off. They've been pretty consistent

Plus, Bucky still doesn't have any real strength feats to his name like Steve

[ZeroBG82]

Marvel's been pretty good with logical narrative, IMO. Bucky's overpowered human characters like Nat and Sam as the Winter Soldier, but has been outmatched by Steve, T'Challa and Isaiah. Cap lifted him up by the neck, T'Challa bent back his robot arm and Isaiah tore it off. They've been pretty consistent

Plus, Bucky still doesn't have any real strength feats to his name like Steve

I mean, in Winter Soldier he kicked a dude 20 feet into a Quinjet engine, which directly called back to Steve on the Lumerian Star deck early in the film. In Civil War he Matrix jumps between buildings. They haven't exactly been shy about it, even if they only alluded to it rather than explicitly talking about it. Hell, he keeps pace with both T'Challa and Steve during the CW chase, and explicitly outruns speeding cars.

Now, the only times we explicitly see him outmuscle Steve is via his cybernetic, so it's possible that he's not quite as strong as Steve. But there are other explanations for the way he's fought everyone else (he's holding back because he fears what he can do in almost every fight since the end of TWS). He beats Stark pretty soundly when he cuts loose, for example.

If Bucky is weaker than other super soldiers, which does seem to be the case (the other Winter Soldier candidate appears stronger than him after being given Stark's serum), it isn't by much and can probably be accounted for by being Zola's experimental prototype. (Which was never replicated, either.)