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  1. #1936
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    So, here's a question that's been posed that I'd like to ask. Bucky in the comics has gotten the shield and been Cap for a little while. Sam became Cap too before Steve Rodgers took back the mantle. So, why doesn't he get the shield in the MCU? I feel like he should have gotten the shield, played Cap for a while then given it to Sam. That way both could play Cap. I'm not bothered at all by the way the story played out in FAWS. I liked it. But seems like articles about Bucky just want to fixate on his sexuality. Is he gay or not? He's not gay and he shouldn't be as there's been no physical evidence to suggest that. Because of his awkward date with the woman in episode 1? No, having an awkward date doesn't make him gay. I hope he hooks up with Yalena, Natasha's sister. He started out a ladies man in Cap 1. Keep him that way.

  2. #1937
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    Maybe he should just be alone. That's ok too

  3. #1938
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    So, here's a question that's been posed that I'd like to ask. Bucky in the comics has gotten the shield and been Cap for a little while. Sam became Cap too before Steve Rodgers took back the mantle. So, why doesn't he get the shield in the MCU? I feel like he should have gotten the shield, played Cap for a while then given it to Sam. That way both could play Cap. I'm not bothered at all by the way the story played out in FAWS. I liked it. But seems like articles about Bucky just want to fixate on his sexuality. Is he gay or not? He's not gay and he shouldn't be as there's been no physical evidence to suggest that. Because of his awkward date with the woman in episode 1? No, having an awkward date doesn't make him gay. I hope he hooks up with Yalena, Natasha's sister. He started out a ladies man in Cap 1. Keep him that way.
    I think they skipped Bucky having the shield for two reasons. First, it didn't fit the character's trajectory. He went from being in the Howling Commandos, to being a Hydra assassin, to being a soldier out of time desperately seeking peace, but who kept getting dragged back into one fight after another. And I think Steve realized that putting the kind of stress and obligation that comes with being Captain America on Bucky would have hurt him in the long run. So he chose Sam instead, because he believed Sam could carry the shield and weather the storm- though I don't think Steve took into consideration the fact that Sam was a black man picking up the shield. But then, Steve never struck me as someone who cared about a person's race.

    The second is more meta- the studio can only make so many projects with these actors for so long before either the actor wants to move on, or they get too expensive. If they gave the shield to Bucky first, there would have to be multiple movies (or at least a few seasons of a TV show) with him as Captain America before you could pass it onto Sam. That could take anywhere from 5-10 years. So by that time, Anthony Mackie would probably be too old to realistically portray Captain America, and that's assuming he wants to stay around for that long. So the best thing to do then is skip Bucky as Cap and go right into Sam as Cap, with Bucky as the White Wolf.

  4. #1939
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    I think MCU Bucky could've pulled off being Cap like the comic version did and made it work, but Sam is probably more relevant to use as Cap now.

  5. #1940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think MCU Bucky could've pulled off being Cap like the comic version did and made it work, but Sam is probably more relevant to use as Cap now.
    I would argue that MCU Bucky is in entirely the wrong headspace to be Cap, and he knows it. As FaWS shows.

    But there is a bigger issue in play.

    Bucky couldn't be Cap in the MCU for the same reason he had to give it up in the 616, being publicly outed as the Winter Soldier. No matter what you do with the rest of your life, being a HYDRA/Soviet assassin for 70 years makes it impossible in the public eye.

    A subset of the population is never, ever going to accept the brainwashing story. Period. He'd never not be an enemy of the state to a good chunk of people, and there would always be a question about his loyalty among those who don't know him well. Even the MCU's version being pardoned doesn't change the perception there.

    He can be Cap's partner, but the shield is off the table.

  6. #1941
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    I would argue that MCU Bucky is in entirely the wrong headspace to be Cap, and he knows it. As FaWS shows.

    But there is a bigger issue in play.

    Bucky couldn't be Cap in the MCU for the same reason he had to give it up in the 616, being publicly outed as the Winter Soldier. No matter what you do with the rest of your life, being a HYDRA/Soviet assassin for 70 years makes it impossible in the public eye.

    A subset of the population is never, ever going to accept the brainwashing story. Period. He'd never not be an enemy of the state to a good chunk of people, and there would always be a question about his loyalty among those who don't know him well. Even the MCU's version being pardoned doesn't change the perception there.

    He can be Cap's partner, but the shield is off the table.
    This is it exactly. Against his will or not he murdered countless people. Public perception is gonna be rough and he comes with too much baggage..

    Also FATWS did a great job showing why Sam was the right choice. Buckys first instinct is to solve his problems with violence. Rather then apologize or make real amends he went around getting revenge. John Walker was vain and too obsessed with the title. Sam didn't even want the title and his first instinct his to talk to people. Much like Cap physical violence wouldn't be his first choice.

  7. #1942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    This is it exactly. Against his will or not he murdered countless people. Public perception is gonna be rough and he comes with too much baggage..

    Also FATWS did a great job showing why Sam was the right choice. Buckys first instinct is to solve his problems with violence. Rather then apologize or make real amends he went around getting revenge. John Walker was vain and too obsessed with the title. Sam didn't even want the title and his first instinct his to talk to people. Much like Cap physical violence wouldn't be his first choice.
    I'd also point out, that Sam has an easier time making hard, moral choices. Bucky doesn't have much experience making his own choices, all things considered.

  8. #1943
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    Yeah Bucky has too much baggage and he's not a good communicator. Not a good fit, still good on a team tho.

  9. #1944
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    I totally get why it's not Bucky here, I just think it was still a great piece of character development for him in the comics and he had a great Cap suit .

    Maybe What If season 2 can show a world where Bucky got to be Cap instead of Sam.

  10. #1945
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    Bucky in the MCU was still recovering from all his Hydra trauma. He's only just gotten to an okay place at the end of the show but at the end of Endgame, he only just got over his programming. I don't know how much time he spent awake in Wakanda, but the only thing he had done since getting his old memories back was hide in Europe, fight the Avengers, fight Iron Man, then fight Thanos's army soon after being deprogrammed. He spent no real time being a hero and barely functioned as a person. Sam on the other hand fought alongside Steve on multiple occasions. They were on the run together and on the Avengers together. It makes sense that Steve would entrust the shield to Sam more than Bucky at that time and this show demonstrates why he was the right choice.

  11. #1946
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    But seems like articles about Bucky just want to fixate on his sexuality. Is he gay or not? He's not gay and he shouldn't be as there's been no physical evidence to suggest that. Because of his awkward date with the woman in episode 1? No, having an awkward date doesn't make him gay. I hope he hooks up with Yalena, Natasha's sister. He started out a ladies man in Cap 1. Keep him that way.
    MCU has come up short when it comes to LGBT characters but with Bucky it's more complicated since I think we need to see male characters who are close and have a strong bond without it being interpreted as something sexual.

  12. #1947
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    I would argue that MCU Bucky is in entirely the wrong headspace to be Cap, and he knows it. As FaWS shows.

    But there is a bigger issue in play.

    Bucky couldn't be Cap in the MCU for the same reason he had to give it up in the 616, being publicly outed as the Winter Soldier. No matter what you do with the rest of your life, being a HYDRA/Soviet assassin for 70 years makes it impossible in the public eye.

    A subset of the population is never, ever going to accept the brainwashing story. Period. He'd never not be an enemy of the state to a good chunk of people, and there would always be a question about his loyalty among those who don't know him well. Even the MCU's version being pardoned doesn't change the perception there.

    He can be Cap's partner, but the shield is off the table.
    Plus the Captain America mantle is an opportunity to explore what America should be vs what it is and Sam as Cap opens the doorways to more powerful and resonant stories than Bucky as Cap.

    I wonder if they were thinking about Sam as Cap since the Winter Soldier, were they influenced by Mark Waid's run which is where Falcon became Cap for the first time and whether they specifically directed the comic books to explore that angle so they can 'prepare' the audience for a black Captain America (which would also short circuit the arguments of people who would complain that 'Sam as Cap isn't comic accurate'.).

  13. #1948
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Plus the Captain America mantle is an opportunity to explore what America should be vs what it is and Sam as Cap opens the doorways to more powerful and resonant stories than Bucky as Cap.

    I wonder if they were thinking about Sam as Cap since the Winter Soldier, were they influenced by Mark Waid's run which is where Falcon became Cap for the first time and whether they specifically directed the comic books to explore that angle so they can 'prepare' the audience for a black Captain America (which would also short circuit the arguments of people who would complain that 'Sam as Cap isn't comic accurate'.).
    How is Sam as Cap not comic accurate?

  14. #1949
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    MCU has come up short when it comes to LGBT characters but with Bucky it's more complicated since I think we need to see male characters who are close and have a strong bond without it being interpreted as something sexual.
    Well, Bucky lost his one great comic romance with Natasha dead, so I'm not sure if there's much else there for him unless they give him one of Steve's.

    I wonder if they could re-introduce Misty Knight as Sam's love interest?
    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Plus the Captain America mantle is an opportunity to explore what America should be vs what it is and Sam as Cap opens the doorways to more powerful and resonant stories than Bucky as Cap.

    I wonder if they were thinking about Sam as Cap since the Winter Soldier, were they influenced by Mark Waid's run which is where Falcon became Cap for the first time and whether they specifically directed the comic books to explore that angle so they can 'prepare' the audience for a black Captain America (which would also short circuit the arguments of people who would complain that 'Sam as Cap isn't comic accurate'.).
    I don't think they probably solidified an idea of replacing Steve until IW/EG.

  15. #1950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, Bucky lost his one great comic romance with Natasha dead, so I'm not sure if there's much else there for him unless they give him one of Steve's.

    I wonder if they could re-introduce Misty Knight as Sam's love interest?

    I don't think they probably solidified an idea of replacing Steve until IW/EG.
    I don't see either Sam or Bucky getting a love interest any time soon. It seems the MCU is moving away from that (which doesn't bother me).

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