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  1. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Wasn't Falcon at the party in Stark Tower in Age of Ultron???
    Two things- there were a lot of vets there (drunk Stan Lee), so this party could have been a thank you for the troops. And Sam wasn't an Avenger at that time; he was helping Steve track down Bucky. So it's more likely that Sam was at the part at the invitation of Steve. Plus, Pepper wasn't even at that party, so it's possible that the very first time they met was at Tony's funeral.

    As for Sam killing, the very first fight we see him in (the freeway scene in Captain America: The Winter Soldier), the first thing he does is use a knife to slit a Hydra terrorist's throat, kick him off the overpass, then take his AR-15 and help Cap by taking out other terrorists below. Sam is a soldier, so he can accept killing in the line of duty.

  2. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I think you're missing the point of the scene. We're not meant to cheer on Bucky for avoiding talking about his feelings. I think we're supposed to see how damaged he is. Yes, there's a bit of levity there, but it's clear he's in a bad place. He's not celebrated for being closed off. It's a disservice to the nuanced writing of the show to dismiss it as celebrating toxic masculinity. From what I'm watching, the characters are more complicated than that. It presents characters who act the role of traditional masculinity, but usually finds a way to undermine it as unhealthy and that most of these characters are broken in some way.
    This. You're not supposed to side with Bucky in that scene, you're supposed to feel like he's doing himself a disservice by being closed off. But also recognize that trauma of the kind he's dealing with isn't something you just power through and get over in a quick minute. Frankly, the fact that some people expect him to just be fine with everything that's happened to him without some kind of struggle or growth is kind of sad.

  3. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Well, considering this show is somewhat political, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Sam to question whether what he's doing is right.
    If we are still talking about the first scene, when Sam encounters the plane he finds that the pilot has been killed, his contact has been taken hostage and the plane taken over by the bad guys.

    So his foes are already murderers, kidnappers and hijackers when he arrived.

    How is lethal force NOT justified in a hostage rescue situation let alone a self defense one? Remember, they have no problem with killing thier hostage.

    They kinda blatantly had it coming.

  4. #934
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    It's based on a comic book and comic books always have unrealistic standards for heroes. It makes it completely believable that they could have resolved the issue without killing anyone.

  5. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    If we are still talking about the first scene, when Sam encounters the plane he finds that the pilot has been killed, his contact has been taken hostage and the plane taken over by the bad guys.

    So his foes are already murderers, kidnappers and hijackers when he arrived.

    How is lethal force NOT justified in a hostage rescue situation let alone a self defense one? Remember, they have no problem with killing thier hostage.

    They kinda blatantly had it coming.
    Not so much that, because he did have to save those hostages. It's more like, if the government has been willing to do all these shady things to people like Isaiah, or even with Ross and the Accords and how Cap didn't want to be Ross' strike force, maybe Sam might become less comfortable with being part of the whole machine. Maybe even more so seeing how events with Walker and zemo will turn out. Can he still trust his superiors to send him after the right people?

  6. #936
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Wait people didn't see Falcon with guns in the previous movies


    I did comment on Falcon killing people but mostly because it is a Disney property and having so many clear deaths was surprising(plus I was a little surprised that more people didn't complain but I guess that is happening now) BUT Falcon has guns, Falcon was an actual solider the killing people wasn't something strange for him unless we are pretending he is shooting rubber bullets at people.

    They literally took away his guns for this show so when he transition to Captain America people won't say anything, They are going to pretend he wasn't dude running around with twin uzi in the other movies.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 04-12-2021 at 10:08 PM.

  7. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Wait people didn't see Falcon with guns in the previous movies


    I did comment on Falcon killing people but mostly because it is a Disney property and having so many clear deaths was surprising(plus I was a little surprised that more people didn't complain but I guess that is happening now) BUT Falcon has guns, Falcon was an actual solider the killing people wasn't something strange for him unless we are pretending he is shooting rubber bullets at people.

    They literally took away his guns for this show so when he transition to Captain America people won't say anything, They are going to pretend he wasn't dude running around with twin uzi in the other movies.
    Well I mean you are not wrong. But lets be honest how many people did Cap Fridge in winter soldier. No one even knows. I don't know if they were all Hydra or not. Many had to be just shield agents not knowing wtf was going on.

  8. #938
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Wasn't Falcon at the party in Stark Tower in Age of Ultron???
    A party that Pepper wasn't at. And even if she had been there, it wouldn't mean he knew her. It's not like it was his party and he invited everyone lol.


    They had just tried to replace Cap a day ago.. with Falcon. It's not out of the realm of possibility to say if they wanted a new Cap, they weren't gonna stop asking guys just because Falcon said no. And even then... he turned it down, as cliffhangers go finding out the thing you turned down got given to someone else... is a weak ass cliffhanger. What happens next episode, Falcon says he doesn't like lettuce in his bacon sandwich and then is handed a bacon sandwich without lettuce? CUE SHOCKING MUSIC!!!!! Where's the lettuce I specifically said I didn't want???? (I'm being sarcastic and over-exaggerating, but come on... what a rubbish cliffhanger)
    You must've watched a different show than I did lol. At no point was he offered a job. That scene was a dedication to Steve at a museum where Sam spoke and gave them the shield to put in the Captain America exhibit. That's why they had a case ready for it. And obviously that's why he was shocked when they suddenly decided there was going to be a new Cap, and inserted some random dude in. In fact they must've been prepping for a while to do the replacement Cap thing (since they had already had a candidate and a uniform), with Sam having no clue about it.
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  9. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    They had just tried to replace Cap a day ago.. with Falcon. It's not out of the realm of possibility to say if they wanted a new Cap, they weren't gonna stop asking guys just because Falcon said no. And even then... he turned it down, as cliffhangers go finding out the thing you turned down got given to someone else... is a weak ass cliffhanger. What happens next episode, Falcon says he doesn't like lettuce in his bacon sandwich and then is handed a bacon sandwich without lettuce? CUE SHOCKING MUSIC!!!!! Where's the lettuce I specifically said I didn't want???? (I'm being sarcastic and over-exaggerating, but come on... what a rubbish cliffhanger)
    No they took the shield put it on display and after everone left they gave it to Walker waiting in the next room.
    At no time was there any indication that they even considered for a second to give the shield to Sam.
    And seeing that choosing and preparing Walker would take some time this was decided on some time ago.
    They just needed to get the shield.

  10. #940
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    A party that Pepper wasn't at. And even if she had been there, it wouldn't mean he knew her. It's not like it was his party and he invited everyone lol.
    In defense of the bad point, Falcon is clearly a celebrity and not a low reality star level celebrity, People worldwide was recognizing him so he had some options based on what understand for our world. The scene worked for me but if you are over analyzing it which is the nature of the internet it is hard to imagine Falcon not being to hire agent and get endorsement deals and doing appearances for money OR Falcon being to lean on military benefits to help him out OR his private contractor work with military which should pay him very well.

    It is fair complaint to go Falcon could some how get that money even if that bank turned him down. I mean the Avengers have their own Ben & Jerry Ice cream flavors. The banks scene works for me it could be easily explained to make sense if need to be that detailed, I mean real life Vets get screwed like that but I am not blaming anyone for doubting it some even the Pepper thing has a base, It is hard to imagine pepper not knowing who these people are even if they aren't close, She was around them in the final battle in Endgame, They showed up to his private funeral. It hard to imagine Pepper pulling the funding for the Avengers.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 04-13-2021 at 04:03 AM.

  11. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post


    It's not that he killed, it's the blasť way he killed. BIG difference. There are other ways to show someone is a bad-ass than having them display a contempt for human life.
    Sam and other MCU heroes have been doing that since the MCU started. The only MCU hero who has expressed any remorse over killing someone is Dr Strange and even that was for about four minutes. Sam didn't express any emotion over killing people in Winter Soldier, Infinity War and Endgame so I don't get where this complaining about him killing people in the first episode is coming from. Especially when he's only done it in the first episode thus far.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 04-13-2021 at 12:07 AM.

  12. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Exactly how is he supposed to accomplish anything, if in every fight he's flying close enough to punch out his enemy?

    He's a soldier, soldiers use guns. He's not killed anyone without tactical need, so that puts him above most DC heroes :P
    Most DC heroes haven't killed without tactical need either.

  13. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Most DC heroes haven't killed without tactical need either.
    Wonder Woman nuked a terrorist, and though it wasn't killing, Superman mutilated Steppenwolf in their fight. Plus, are we sure Batman didn't kill anyone in Batman vs. Superman?

  14. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Plus, are we sure Batman didn't kill anyone in Batman vs. Superman?
    lol batman killed a ton of people in that movie.

  15. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercover View Post
    lol batman killed a ton of people in that movie.
    When he stole the kryptonite from Luthor, he left enough shell casings on the ground for the NRA to call him excessive.

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