Falcon and The Winter Soldier

[Immortal Weapon]

Which is the whole problem.

I can argue that Widow role in those films should have been hers but there's nothing we can do about that.

[Frontier]

I can argue that Widow role in those films should have been hers but there's nothing we can do about that.

Yeah, but this was their chance to redeem that, and instead...they just turn her evil.

[josai21]

Thought's on Bucky's "power level."

I can respect the argument that he's just not fighting with the same bloodthirst, but that still shouldn't effect his skill. Maybe his ability to win, but his movements and ability should be much more powerful even then.

So...my take is not that he's been "jobbed" but that the choreography of this show just isn't that great. Like it's not "bad" but I definitely wouldn't put it in top tier. This is a huge contrast to CA: The Winter Soldier which had amazing choreography from top to bottom.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Thought's on Bucky's "power level."

I can respect the argument that he's just not fighting with the same bloodthirst, but that still shouldn't effect his skill. Maybe his ability to win, but his movements and ability should be much more powerful even then.

So...my take is not that he's been "jobbed" but that the choreography of this show just isn't that great. Like it's not "bad" but I definitely wouldn't put it in top tier. This is a huge contrast to CA: The Winter Soldier which had amazing choreography from top to bottom.

The Winter Soldier used guns or weapons against Cap. When they went hand to hand, Cap was the clear winner. I think Bucky did alright, all things considered.

[Vic Vega]

Which is the whole problem.

IS it though?

Sharon Carter was introduced in the comics as a love interest/agent supporting character for Steve Rogers.

They tried to do that in the MCU but people weren't having the idea of Steve moving on from Peggy and would of rather had anyone else be Steve's love interest (Natasha, Bucky, friggin Tony Stark). So she doesn't show up in Infinity Gauntlet.

The idea that 2+ years of exile made her heel turn is legit the most interesting thing that's been done with her. At least now
people will want to see what she does next.

[Frontier]

IS it though?

Sharon Carter was introduced in the comics as a love interest/agent supporting character for Steve Rogers.

They tried to do that in the MCU but people weren't having the idea of Steve moving on from Peggy and would of rather had anyone else be Steve's love interest (Natasha, Bucky, friggin Tony Stark). So she doesn't show up in Infinity Gauntlet.

The idea that 2+ years of exile made her heel turn is legit the most interesting thing that's been done with her. At least now
people will want to see what she does next.

I don't think it was so much that people weren't having it but the Russo's just did the bare minimum with her that they could fit into a movie. If they had spent the amount of time with her and Steve that Steve had with Natasha in that movie, I don't think that kiss in Civil War would've been received as badly.

Of course, Steve apparently didn't care about her enough to bother trying to get her pardoned or do anything for her during the time-skip, which about sums up audience apathy to Sharon in the MCU.

It's one thing to have people interested in her, but the character they're interested in isn't really Sharon Carter.

And they do this whole song and dance about her aunt who, in the comics, is more of a footnote in Steve's life while Peggy gets to basically eclipse Sharon in the MCU. It just rubs me the wrong way.

[CosmiComic]

I can argue that Widow role in those films should have been hers but there's nothing we can do about that.

Couldn't both have been there? Why's it only one female character at a time?

I don't think it was so much that people weren't having it but the Russo's just did the bare minimum with her that they could fit into a movie. If they had spent the amount of time with her and Steve that Steve had with Natasha in that movie, I don't think that kiss in Civil War would've been received as badly.

Of course, Steve apparently didn't care about her enough to bother trying to get her pardoned or do anything for her during the time-skip, which about sums up audience apathy to Sharon in the MCU.

It's one thing to have people interested in her, but the character they're interested in isn't really Sharon Carter.

And they do this whole song and dance about her aunt who, in the comics, is more of a footnote in Steve's life while Peggy gets to basically eclipse Sharon in the MCU. It just rubs me the wrong way.

Making him lovesick for a woman he left in the past was the wrong move IMO

[chicago_bastard]

I can argue that Widow role in those films should have been hers but there's nothing we can do about that.

And then the only female founding member of the Avengers would end up with even less character development. Why should a bigger focus on one female character always come at the expense of another female character? It should be possible to give two female heroes enough space in one movie, it's no problem for male heroes.

[CosmiComic]

And then the only female founding member of the Avengers would end up with even less character development. Why should a bigger focus on one female character always come at the expense of another female character? It should be possible to give two female heroes enough space in one movie, it's no problem for male heroes.

Especially considering that female character already came "at the expense" of the founding female member in the comics. As if the Avengers couldn't handle more than one female hero in the beginning

[j9ac9k]

It was pretty obvious when you paid attention to the context of every situation he was in. Ya'll just hated him to him.

There was nothing obvious about it. If he had been shown as angry and murderous in the last ep, one could just as easily say that was evident in all the scenes he was in as well. Yes, some people hated him the second he appeared, but the show gave us plenty of reasons to think of him as a heel as he was clearly going down a dark path last episode. Just because you were in his favor doesn't make you more observant or that other people were blinded by hate, it just means the ending met with your satisfaction as it really could have gone either way.(though I didn't think the show would let him off so easily)

It did bug me though that while the show did a great job showing characters in the grey, when the chips fell, Karli was a "misguided" murderer who lost the faith of her own people and had to die so that Sam could properly convey her message and Sharon became a power-hungry villain due to being "hurt by the world" (not being given the credit of being a mastermind, she's just being emotional) and is now all set to commit treason, while Walker stains Cap's legacy only to fail sideways into another job and even Zemo gets to complete his mission from jail. Not a great tally for the ladies at the end of the day.

[Username taken]

Couldn't both have been there? Why's it only one female character at a time?



Making him lovesick for a woman he left in the past was the wrong move IMO

Exactly.

It's not even romantic to me, it's regressive.

Peggy had moved on, a more mature ending would be Steve accepting of this and moving on too.

[CosmiComic]

Exactly.

It's not even romantic to me, it's regressive.

Peggy had moved on, a more mature ending would be Steve accepting of this and moving on too.

He moved on too by AoU from what he said to Tony at the end. I like Peggy, but she and Steve should've been finished by the team he fell into the sea. That's why I didn't like his ending in Endgame

[marvelprince]

Thought's on Bucky's "power level."

I can respect the argument that he's just not fighting with the same bloodthirst, but that still shouldn't effect his skill. Maybe his ability to win, but his movements and ability should be much more powerful even then.

So...my take is not that he's been "jobbed" but that the choreography of this show just isn't that great. Like it's not "bad" but I definitely wouldn't put it in top tier. This is a huge contrast to CA: The Winter Soldier which had amazing choreography from top to bottom.

He used a ton of different weapons while out to just end Cap and crew. It’s not about a lack of skill, he’s just not an understoppable murder machine anymore. Still very capable as we saw him handling that knife and delivering the beats. I don’t think we ever really saw him struggle at all so can’t say he seems any less skilled to me, just not as murderous.

[Frontier]

And then the only female founding member of the Avengers would end up with even less character development. Why should a bigger focus on one female character always come at the expense of another female character? It should be possible to give two female heroes enough space in one movie, it's no problem for male heroes.

Even in this series the two most prominent women in this were basically villains. The jury's still out on the Contessa.

I guess there's Sam's sister...

[CliffHanger2]

Thought's on Bucky's "power level."

I can respect the argument that he's just not fighting with the same bloodthirst, but that still shouldn't effect his skill. Maybe his ability to win, but his movements and ability should be much more powerful even then.

So...my take is not that he's been "jobbed" but that the choreography of this show just isn't that great. Like it's not "bad" but I definitely wouldn't put it in top tier. This is a huge contrast to CA: The Winter Soldier which had amazing choreography from top to bottom.

Disagree lots of choppy/ sped up editing in TWS. Fights here are much clearer. Falcon's intro was top notch.