Falcon and The Winter Soldier

[80sbaby]

Also, a couple goons survived, including Batroc. Snyder's Falcon would've shot a missile at him lol

[Frontier]

One of the things I am most happy about is I am seeing nobody complaining about the number of people Falcon killed, That had to be a good 15 to 20 people he killed in that open sequence. When you contrast that with people complaining about Wonder Woman roughing up dudes (not even killing) who threatened to kill kids and blow up 4 blocks it is interesting.

Uh...I actually brought it up? I didn't really mean it as a criticism but I didn't love it either (and didn't Wonder Woman kill some of them?).

[Killerbee911]

Lol stop. Nobody complained that she killed in the heat of battle, like Falcon. Let me know what other options he had as Diana did... I'll wait.

What does that have to do with what I said? I said this

when you contrast that with people complaining about Wonder Woman roughing up dudes

People were complaining about Wonder Woman bouncing dudes off walls not even kill them. It is just interesting to see nobody caring that Falcon murking terrorists and not going into heroes don't kill stuff.

Uh...I actually brought it up? I didn't really mean it as a criticism but I didn't love it either (and didn't Wonder Woman kill some of them?).

The last guy Wonder Woman probably killed, everybody else she dealt with probably is going to be eating through a straw the rest of their life.

[CosmiComic]

For me the question is, does the hero have the right to kill the villain in this instance

[Frontier]

People were complaining about Wonder Woman bouncing dudes off walls not even kill them. It is just interesting to see nobody caring that Falcon murking terrorists and not going into heroes don't kill stuff.

I mean, again, I did .

The last guy Wonder Woman probably killed, everybody else she dealt with probably is going to be eating through a straw the rest of their life.

So basically she's DCEU Batman. Lovely .

For me the question is, does the hero have the right to kill the villain in this instance

Then you go down into the rabbit hole of whether any killing is justified, are soldiers justified to kill, how our culture has become desensitized to that kind of stuff, etc.

[CosmiComic]

Then you go down into the rabbit hole of whether any killing is justified, are soldiers justified to kill, how our culture has become desensitized to that kind of stuff, etc.

Exactly. Isn't that what this show could be addressing?

[inisideguy]

One of the things I am most happy about is I am seeing nobody complaining about the number of people Falcon killed, That had to be a good 15 to 20 people he killed in that open sequence. When you contrast that with people complaining about Wonder Woman roughing up dudes (not even killing) who threatened to kill kids and blow up 4 blocks it is interesting.

Its a weird debate. Iron man and captain America have been killing people in these movie since 2008. I am sure there are others in the MCU. The thing about the MCU is they never dwell on it. I would love to see a interview with the creative people behind this universe and see how they just managed to avoid all of this controversy. Because they sure as heck have.

[Killerbee911]

For me the question is, does the hero have the right to kill the villain in this instance

Any time the life of hero is in danger "they have the right to kill the villain". That is real world rules on use force, trying to bring someone alive who is trying to kill often ends with the good guy dying. So lethal force is instantly option once they are shooting at you.

Wonder Woman is slightly different given their ability to harm her is non existent but that doesn't extend to people around, an innocent could be harmed by a person being left alive, so lethal force is general fine in that situation as well but it is toss up.

The "moral" comics always play with the idea there is always option that be done with out killing by creating situation where they are outs but real life more than often there is no out, Shooting a guy in his leg often has him shooting your partner or yourself. It is matter if you want wish fulfillment of there is always an out or real world realism that which lets to understand bad guy will use an small chance to inflict damage and leaving them alive might get you or friends killed.

Its a weird debate. Iron man and captain America have been killing people in these movie since 2008. I am sure there are others in the MCU. The thing about the MCU is they never dwell on it. I would love to see a interview with the creative people behind this universe and see how they just managed to avoid all of this controversy. Because they sure as heck have.

Its is the PG13 rating the deaths are always ambiguous enough to where you are pretty sure they are dead but you can't confirm it and it is most nameless henchmen. I am pretty sure Marvel could in Falcon& Winter Solider do a scene with Falcon where the person he killed has family and you get reflect that these bad guys are real people. It is just a matter of what you want the story to do but yeah henchmen are meat puppets die in these things.

[CosmiComic]

Any time the life of hero is in danger "they have the right to kill the villain". That is real world rules on use force, trying to bring someone alive who is trying to kill often ends with the good guy dying. So lethal force is instantly option once they are shooting at you.

Wonder Woman is slightly different given their ability to harm her is non existent but that doesn't extend to people around, an innocent could be harmed by a person being left alive, so lethal force is general fine in that situation as well but it is toss up.

The "moral" comics always play with the idea there is always option that be done with out killing by creating situation where they are outs but real life more than often there is no out, Shooting a guy in his leg often has him shooting your partner or yourself. It is matter if you want wish fulfillment of there is always an out or real world realism that which lets to understand bad guy will use an small chance to inflict damage and leaving them alive might get you or friends killed.

True. If they're trying to kill you or others, then you can kill them.

However, if the hero can avoid killing and still save the day, I think they should choose to avoid it.

I can't help but think recent conversations about excessive use of force in the real world are playing into this

[Jcogginsa]

Diana's a paragon for who killing goes directly against the things she was created to stand for. The Falcon's just a good guy whose never had a thematic drive to not kill.

[inisideguy]

Diana's a paragon for who killing goes directly against the things she was created to stand for. The Falcon's just a good guy whose never had a thematic drive to not kill.

From what I have seen in the MCU is killing is just what they do to achieve their goals. I guess. Well actually no. Iron man does not have to kill a ton of soldiers in his first movie he just does. Its a natural progression of what he is doing. The only one they seem to keep clear of this is Spider-man

[80sbaby]

People were complaining about Wonder Woman bouncing dudes off walls not even kill them. It is just interesting to see nobody caring that Falcon murking terrorists and not going into heroes don't kill stuff.

The issues with Diana was about excessive force. And that was due to the character.

[chamber-music]

MCU Falcon uses submachine guns and tried to kill Ant-Man in his movie. Sam obviously has no qualms with killing people.

Outside of Netflix Daredevil and Spider-Man, Marvel's film heroes have no issue with killing people. Daredevil eventually relented and was willing to kill. Spidey went kill mode on the outriders in his Iron Spider suit in Endgame (mostly out of desperation).

Superhero comics are a fantasy so they often create an option of not killing (for supposed moral reasons and because they don't want to get rid of popular foes).

In a more relatable world superheroes aren't going to incapacitate every villain trying to kill them or innocent civilians which why most live action superheroes kill.

[Username taken]

Diana's a paragon for who killing goes directly against the things she was created to stand for. The Falcon's just a good guy whose never had a thematic drive to not kill.

Not to mention that Sam was literally in a fight for his life. He doesn’t have powers so practically every serious fight he gets into (against armed goons) turns desperate.

Wonder Woman is super duper fast and could easily neutralize a couple of mooks without lethal force. Besides the guy she vaporized with her bracelets, that guy that got his smashed against the wall and was bleeding out is probably dead too. That’s not to say I have a problem with Diana killing those guys, those guys were murderous clowns that were ready to kill children, their deaths were well deserved. I actually had more of a problem with the way Steppenwolf was mutilated and decapitated, with the portal open I don’t think lethal force was necessary anymore except that Snyder likes that sort of brutality.

But I noticed that with Snyder, a lot of his superhero fight scenes end up with people smashed into or through walls violently.

[inisideguy]

MCU Falcon uses submachine guns and tried to kill Ant-Man in his movie. Sam obviously has no qualms with killing people.

Outside of Netflix Daredevil and Spider-Man, Marvel's film heroes have no issue with killing people. Daredevil eventually relented and was willing to kill. Spidey went kill mode on the outriders in his Iron Spider suit in Endgame (mostly out of desperation).

Superhero comics are a fantasy so they often create an option of not killing (for supposed moral reasons and because they don't want to get rid of popular foes).


In a more relatable world superheroes aren't going to incapacitate every villain trying to kill them or innocent civilians which why most live action superheroes kill.

From what I have seen outside of the punisher is they kill when( they think they have to?) But that is probably debatable. Because guys like Iron man just kill. They don't go looking to kill. The MCU sort of treats its heroes like soldiers in a war.