Do you think the CW shows have done more good or harm?

[Frontier]

Like what? They back-pedaled on trying to make Ollie like the TV version and African-descent Wally West was book first even if Iris and her dad were casted with African-American actors in the show. Did they pull something from Black Lightning and Stargirl that I missed?

And everything from Kreisberg's New 52 run vanished off the face of the Earth.

[Jewel Runner]

Like what? They back-pedaled on trying to make Ollie like the TV version and African-descent Wally West was book first even if Iris and her dad were casted with African-American actors in the show. Did they pull something from Black Lightning and Stargirl that I missed?

So just gonna ignore how when the Suicide Squad movie came out the exact same month DC released a new Suicide Squad book that had the movie line up?
Or how Wonder Woman carrying a sword and shield around became more prominent after the movie?
Like you can't say DC doesn't change things for synergy, they do, you can argue Marvel does it more but not that they don't do it at all, from your own examples they do it, just because they back-peddled later doesn't change facts.

[The Darknight Detective]

Flash having a TV show did not impact him getting a movie at all. The only thing holding Flash back movie-wise is DC not knowing what to do with him and Ezra Miller.

And I think Grant Gustin is a better Barry.

Miller is a good actor, but does anybody like him over Gustin? I'm in agreement with you, Frontier.

[SiegePerilous02]

They're not for me, but I don't think they're doing any harm. It's not like there is a shortage of dumb cheapo entertainment outside of the superhero genre that still get lots of viewers, and it does allow some lesser name characters (or anybody not named Batman) more appearances in outside media.

Miller is a good actor, but does anybody like him over Gustin? I'm in agreement with you, Frontier.

I don't think anyone liked him over Gustin even before the incident with that woman. After that, he doesn't have a prayer of being as liked as much as Gustin.

[Multiverse]

The CW Arrowverse has been an very mixed bag to me. One one hand, it's been great seeing B-List Heroes/Villains get a chance (like Firestorm, Commander Steel, Captain Cold, Merlyn etc) to shine and there are plenty of made-for-TV characters that have made it to the main comics (Diggle and Felicity) and I wouldn't mind seeing Sara Lance and the Council of Wells appear. Personal favourites being Arrow S1/2 + 5, Flash S1, LoT S2, and Supergirl S4.

However, it doesn't detract from typical CW tropes, bad characterization moments, killing off certain characters for no reason at all (Earth 1 Laurel and Leonard Snart being my main issue), and wishing for less "Tom Cavanagh" Thawne and more "Matt Letscher" Thawne (he's the true Reverse Flash).

NOTE: I have no quarrels with no "Arrow and the Canaries" (just have them guest star in Legends of Tomorrow, simple enough)

[Lightning Rider]

It's hard to say.

On one hand, it has definitely made characters like Oliver Queen and Barry Allen household names for mainstream audiences in a way they weren't before those shows were created. Same with Kate Kane and Batwoman, Kara Danvers/Supergirl, and Jefferson Pierece/Black Lightning. So in terms of "awareness", the shows have definitely boosted those characters. I'd say their formula has also normalized superheroes and made them accessible to normies.

On the other hand, the shows (particularly Arrow and Flash) have taken such liberties with the characters and storylines that I actually feel like the public is misinformed about what makes the character special. Oliver Queen is simply reduced to a grim Bruce Wayne clone, stripped of the boisterous humor or radical politics. Barry Allen was in perpetual sadness due to his dead mother/jailed father, had a weird foster-brother role with Iris, and the OG Wally West is nowhere to be found. It also relies disproportionately on endless versions of Harrison Wells. Supergirl suffers from transparent wokeness, as does Black Lightning at times (in season 2 particularly), and they reinvented Jimmy Olsen (not just racially) in ways that don't really serve his character.

And in the end, the shows often lack the writing quality & production value that Daredevil/Punisher/etc. got, and this new wave of MCU TV is set to have. It turns off a lot of otherwise willing viewers from investing the time and effort.

I'd probably agree that it's 60/40. Maybe even 70/30. It's just frustrating to me that if I want to make a fan of the shows take that leap into the comic book, I'll have to come up with a thousand excuses and reasons explaining key differences - as if comics weren't confusing enough already. I'm curious how many teenage kids introduced to CW Flash, for example, picked up a comic and went "where the hell is Cisco, Caitlyn, and Joe?"

[stargazer01]

It's hard to say.

On one hand, it has definitely made characters like Oliver Queen and Barry Allen household names for mainstream audiences in a way they weren't before those shows were created. Same with Kate Kane and Batwoman, Kara Danvers/Supergirl, and Jefferson Pierece/Black Lightning. So in terms of "awareness", the shows have definitely boosted those characters. I'd say their formula has also normalized superheroes and made them accessible to normies.

On the other hand, the shows (particularly Arrow and Flash) have taken such liberties with the characters and storylines that I actually feel like the public is misinformed about what makes the character special. Oliver Queen is simply reduced to a grim Bruce Wayne clone, stripped of the boisterous humor or radical politics. Barry Allen was in perpetual sadness due to his dead mother/jailed father, had a weird foster-brother role with Iris, and the OG Wally West is nowhere to be found. It also relies disproportionately on endless versions of Harrison Wells. Supergirl suffers from transparent wokeness, as does Black Lightning at times (in season 2 particularly), and they reinvented Jimmy Olsen (not just racially) in ways that don't really serve his character.

And in the end, the shows often lack the writing quality & production value that Daredevil/Punisher/etc. got, and this new wave of MCU TV is set to have. It turns off a lot of otherwise willing viewers from investing the time and effort.

I'd probably agree that it's 60/40. Maybe even 70/30. It's just frustrating to me that if I want to make a fan of the shows take that leap into the comic book, I'll have to come up with a thousand excuses and reasons explaining key differences - as if comics weren't confusing enough already. I'm curious how many teenage kids introduced to CW Flash, for example, picked up a comic and went "where the hell is Cisco, Caitlyn, and Joe?"

Just tell them that these are different adaptations. The movies also take some liberties sometimes.

[Holt]

So just gonna ignore how when the Suicide Squad movie came out the exact same month DC released a new Suicide Squad book that had the movie line up?
Or how Wonder Woman carrying a sword and shield around became more prominent after the movie?
Like you can't say DC doesn't change things for synergy, they do, you can argue Marvel does it more but not that they don't do it at all, from your own examples they do it, just because they back-peddled later doesn't change facts.

We're also getting a Suicide Squad relaunch with Peacemaker and Bloodsport in the cast because of the new film, and one of the big things they've been teasing about Infinite Frontier is the introduction of Red X into the mainstream continuity. And Aquaman recently got tribal tattoos and the return of his bearded long haired look because of the movie as well.

If we're talking historically, however, there's a ton of shit in DC canon that came from adaptations. Mr. Freeze's tragic backstory and frozen wife, John Stewart's Marine background and his current costume, the entire characters of Harley Quinn, Aqualad II and Jimmy Olsen all come to mind. Even Batman's grappling hook gun.

[The Darknight Detective]

Just tell them that these are different adaptations. The movies also take some liberties sometimes.

Almost all of time regarding the latter.

[The no face guy]

Good all round.

Admitably I am not a fan of live action superhero shows (I much prefer animation) but...

with the death of Saturday morning cartoons, it's become the primary medium in which youths are consistently exposed to DC superheroes on a weekly basis, (That, and video games)

[Comic-Reader Lad]

The shows don't do any harm or prevent the characters from being adapted elsewhere.

We've seen that with the simultaneous Flash TV show and movies and Superman TV show and movies.

In general, I think we're in an amazing time for comic book adaptations to other media. We've never had so many at the same time, and the CW shows were a big part of that.

Whether you like the shows or not, the CW will always get credit for jumpstarting the current boom of comic book shows on TV.

When it's all over, I think the Arrowverse will be fondly remembered by its fans for decades to come.

[Powerboy]

Way more good than bad. Green Arrow in particular, despite all the criticisms, had an origin that really catapulted him into being a major DC player.

[9th.]

It's hard to say.

On one hand, it has definitely made characters like Oliver Queen and Barry Allen household names for mainstream audiences in a way they weren't before those shows were created. Same with Kate Kane and Batwoman, Kara Danvers/Supergirl, and Jefferson Pierece/Black Lightning. So in terms of "awareness", the shows have definitely boosted those characters. I'd say their formula has also normalized superheroes and made them accessible to normies.

On the other hand, the shows (particularly Arrow and Flash) have taken such liberties with the characters and storylines that I actually feel like the public is misinformed about what makes the character special. Oliver Queen is simply reduced to a grim Bruce Wayne clone, stripped of the boisterous humor or radical politics. Barry Allen was in perpetual sadness due to his dead mother/jailed father, had a weird foster-brother role with Iris, and the OG Wally West is nowhere to be found. It also relies disproportionately on endless versions of Harrison Wells. Supergirl suffers from transparent wokeness, as does Black Lightning at times (in season 2 particularly), and they reinvented Jimmy Olsen (not just racially) in ways that don't really serve his character.

And in the end, the shows often lack the writing quality & production value that Daredevil/Punisher/etc. got, and this new wave of MCU TV is set to have. It turns off a lot of otherwise willing viewers from investing the time and effort.

I'd probably agree that it's 60/40. Maybe even 70/30. It's just frustrating to me that if I want to make a fan of the shows take that leap into the comic book, I'll have to come up with a thousand excuses and reasons explaining key differences - as if comics weren't confusing enough already. I'm curious how many teenage kids introduced to CW Flash, for example, picked up a comic and went "where the hell is Cisco, Caitlyn, and Joe?"

You really don't the continuity in comics would potentially turn them off way before that does. If they really wanted the characters to act the same they could just read the comic tie in's and be done with it.

[9th.]

Good all round.

Admitably I am not a fan of live action superhero shows (I much prefer animation) but...

with the death of Saturday morning cartoons, it's become the primary medium in which youths are consistently exposed to DC superheroes on a weekly basis, (That, and video games)

I really wish we got more animation, there are some shows coming but it's not nearly enough. The superhero boom happened and it's almost all live action.

[Lightning Rider]

Just tell them that these are different adaptations. The movies also take some liberties sometimes.

Since movies are condensed, I think the liberties they take are smaller and more easily explained. There's less an audience would be attached to that theyd have to emotionally amputate while reading a celebrated run.

You really don't the continuity in comics would potentially turn them off way before that does

At times, but someone who likes MOS or TDK can be given runs where 90% of the elements in the film are present in the story. Arrow and Flash have extended casts with significantly altered relationship dynamics. It's not impossible, just a harder sell IMO. My girlfriend has a hard enough time already looking at a blond Barry on the page and conceptualizing him as the same guy.