Charisma Carpenter opens up about mistreatment from Joss Whedon

[WebLurker]

Someone is saying it here. Me.

I think, just like with J.K. Rowling, it's going to be up to the individual to what extent they can, in good conscience, engage with the art, whether that be enjoying what they have or buying new materials from it. I also think that it's up to the rest of us not judge other people's decisions on the the matter. I myself will probably be considering if I still want to buy new Firefly stuff, but I don't see any reason to look down on anyone who doesn't find the idea of continuing to consume the franchise problematic.

[Castle]

I think, just like with J.K. Rowling, it's going to be up to the individual to what extent they can, in good conscience, engage with the art, whether that be enjoying what they have or buying new materials from it. I also think that it's up to the rest of us not judge other people's decisions on the the matter. I myself will probably be considering if I still want to buy new Firefly stuff, but I don't see any reason to look down on anyone who doesn't find the idea of continuing to consume the franchise problematic.

Comparing the JK issue with Joss is far fetched. I think Joss is now a bit more comparable to Bryan Singer but which more lower crimes.

No one has made any serious allegations that JK harassed or assaulted them.

JK will still have a career. Joss career is finished.

[Cyke]

Someone is saying it here. Me.

Sorry, I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but your posts have steered from "Joss is the real victim here" to "*I'm* the real victim here."

We still have to center it on Charisma Carpenter, Ray Fischer, and the ones impacted by Joss Whedon. At the end of the day, we have to focus on the needs and wants of those most hurt at the center. This isn't to demand perfection, nor is it an "All Men Are Evil" type attack (I mean, shout out to all the men who've stood up against the likes of Whedon here), but accountability is something that still isn't practiced well in Hollywood. To pretend it's not a big deal or to post in his defense is to perpetuate the lack of accountability that lets that harmful behavior continue on, and sets the example that keeps Hollywood thinking that it's okay. Accountability is a process, and this is part of that process -- removing someone's platform isn't the same as canceling or causing more harm.

I'd also be quick to point out James Gunn, who was also accused of problematic behavior both over Twitter and on various sets. But he wasn't just apologetic, he took it upon himself to restore the relationships of those when hurt, or those on the periphery like the Guardians of the Galaxy cast who would also be impacted by that harm. Those restorative steps helped redeem him to the larger Hollywood community, which is what got him back to work and caused the ones in his circles to rally around him.

[AndrewCrossett]

Rowling is too big to cancel, like Michael Jackson.

I'm not sure Whedon still had a career anyway. He hasn't made a movie since 2015 or a TV episode since 2013.

You know why people can be made to believe the most implausible conspiracy theories? Because someone as prominent as Joss Whedon could apparently be Satan incarnate on the set, and have that be a complete secret from his woke, feminist, hyper-social, hyper-online fan base for 20 years.

So when someone says "Do you know how many people would have to keep their mouths shut for so long to pull off a conspiracy like that?" you can tell them to go ask Bill Cosby or Jimmy Savile.

[BlackClaw]

It's funny how the guy who claimed to be this staunch feminist has mostly women speaking out against him.

It’s almost as if his feminism was just performative this entire time.

[AndrewCrossett]

Sorry, I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but your posts have steered from "Joss is the real victim here" to "*I'm* the real victim here."

I don't think Joss is a victim. When it was just Fisher saying it you could say it was just one butthurt actor and we had decades of evidence showing that Whedon was not an abusive person. This kind of changes that view, I'd say.

As for me, in the past few months I have had THREE of the creators I whose work I most enjoyed and admired (Rowling, Warren Ellis and Whedon) revealed to be people I wouldn't want to be in the same room with. At a time when I am particularly looking for any little thing I can take joy from... to say it's frustrating just doesn't capture it at all.

[SiegePerilous02]

Add Amber Benson to the list of people claiming it was a toxic work environment.

I always felt at the time that Joss must have remained friendly with his actors, as he could usually call on them to come back for small cameos. I suppose in hindsight it's telling that the one person he didn't get back was Amber, who he had wanted to have play a Tara version of The First in Season 7 to taunt Willow before that character got changed to the goth chick who killed herself.

This does speak volumes. As well as Gellar not being at the wrap party.

All these years, when Gellar said she wouldn't be up for returning to the character...it makes you wonder what the real reason for that was. Because she clearly loves Buffy.

[ZeroBG82]

Ultimately, this doesn't impact in any way how I enjoy the shows and films Whedon made. Unlike the Rowling comparison, all of Whedon's projects are works of a multitude of people. He may have been the creator or the driving creative force behind the story, but you still have all the other people involved in making shows and movies, not least of which are the other writers and the actors. When I watch Buffy or Angel, it may now make me sad knowing that the environment that created them was such a mess, but I can still easily enjoy them.

That said, it absolutely sucks to hear that some of these people, particularly the very young at the time like Michelle Trachtenberg, had to deal with such an environment. Nobody deserves treatment like what is being described by Fisher or Carpenter, particularly when they are just trying to make a living and do a job and aren't huge mega stars.

[Mark Trail]

Someone is saying it here. Me.

You're saying you will "stop watching or reading any TV shows, movies, books, comics, etc. because the creator will eventually be revealed to be a scumbag in some way shape or form (because everyone is... some just never get caught)"?

What will you do for entertainment?

[WebLurker]

Comparing the JK issue with Joss is far fetched. I think Joss is now a bit more comparable to Bryan Singer but which more lower crimes.

No one has made any serious allegations that JK harassed or assaulted them.

JK will still have a career. Joss career is finished.

I brought up Rowling not because her transphobia is a one-for-one to what Whedon is accused of, but because she's the other notable example of the question of what you when you like the work of someone who's a terrible person and they're still alive, so they'll continue to profit if you keep buying stuff from the franchise they created. I think that's a trickier question then something like Lovecraft, where financial support of their work no longer directly goes to supporting them. Make sense?

Frankly, I think Rowling is a case study on how Whedon's career could survive (although I will concede that the popularity of Harry Potter does offer another layer of protection), but I guess we'll see.

[Castle]

I brought up Rowling not because her transphobia is a one-for-one to what Whedon is accused of, but because she's the other notable example of the question of what you when you like the work of someone who's a terrible person and they're still alive, so they'll continue to profit if you keep buying stuff from the franchise they created. I think that's a trickier question then something like Lovecraft, where financial support of their work no longer directly goes to supporting them. Make sense?

Frankly, I think Rowling is a case study on how Whedon's career could survive (although I will concede that the popularity of Harry Potter does offer another layer of protection), but I guess we'll see.

the narrative that JK is transphobic is not concrete or facts. some of her fans think she is, others think she isnt. she made a comment that started a complex topic about gender and biological science. JK is what I will call controversial


I dont see JK taking of Fantastic Beast 3 script, fans still want HBO MAX Potter stuff. Joss's career is over at this point.

[SiegePerilous02]

Boreanaz apparently liked both Carpenter and Gellar's statements. Caulfield has been dishing out likes too.

[Mark Trail]

Frankly, I think Rowling is a case study on how Whedon's career could survive (although I will concede that the popularity of Harry Potter does offer another layer of protection), but I guess we'll see.

Rowling is probably more "cancel-proof" than Whedon simply because Whedon's career is more dependent on personally interacting with other persons (whereas Rowling is going to be just sitting at a word processor) and, further, upon working for corporate entities who tend to be more risk adverse and, therefore, less likely to hire someone whose accused of actions which, if repeated, could create liability for that those entitles.

[Thezmage]

the narrative that JK is transphobic is not concrete or facts. some of her fans think she is, others think she isnt. she made a comment that started a complex topic about gender and biological science. JK is what I will call controversial

She posted an essay full of ahistoric, antiscientific, transphobic arguments. The only "complex topic about gender and biological science" she started was all of the people exposing how ignorant her arguments were

[Powerboy]

Michelle Trachtenberg reposted Sarah's message with a caption of her own:

So it's Carpenter, Benson, Gellar and Trachtenberg now and those are just the ones I know about for sure. With Trachtenberg, she was fifteen at the time and labels his behavior not just inappropriate but very inappropriate. So I'm guessing this is more than something that could be a little questionable or misunderstood.

Whedon has his own production company but it will be very interesting to see if he suddenly no longer gets directing jobs from major studios.