Excalibur [18]: Mad Women Spoilers

[Jwyatt]

it's very easy to understand when you read the whole book, but many a people here have admited not to read it all just scans and second hand opinions to continue in their established hatred of the title, soooooooo..

I've read every page of every issue and Tini does not explain much on-panel in a straightforward way. The issue with the non-British Captains Britain was similar, in that it wasn't clear that everything was happening in an alternate reality until the last couple page. Even then, it didn't feel like a twist, but more of a muddy oh-yeah reveal. Let's not even mourn Captain Jubilee.

Since very little is explained in the text, the well-thought-out explanations on these boards are hard to distinguish from No-Prize winners who explain away mistakes.

[Rnap22]

I've read every page of every issue and Tini does not explain much on-panel in a straightforward way. The issue with the non-British Captains Britain was similar, in that it wasn't clear that everything was happening in an alternate reality until the last couple page. Even then, it didn't feel like a twist, but more of a muddy oh-yeah reveal. Let's not even mourn Captain Jubilee.

Since very little is explained in the text, the well-thought-out explanations on these boards are hard to distinguish from No-Prize winners who explain away mistakes.

Yeah it’s not clear. You must have a PhD in rpg magic. It’s just another jab at people that “aren’t reading the book” or “haters”
No. The book is poorly written and so is the premise of mutant magic.
I’ve read every issue and still have no idea of what any of it actually means or where we’re getting that the magic is coming from in between the gates.

I guess I’m not smart enough to understand since it’s all there.

[warlockofgreed]

Wouldn't it be simpler to say that the mutant magic energy that the mutants are using through the gates is coming from Krakoa taking that energy from mutants in the first place?

We know that Krakoa is stealing psychic energy from all mutants on the island. Maybe it isn't just taking that energy but also their magic energy and putting it in the gates. Krakoa taking and storing magic energy from the mutants could be related to how Moria might finally turn the tables on the humans and have mutants "win".

The thing is, this has never been stated in Excalibur so we cannot say for certain, but your explanation makes the most sense. All mutants live off Krakoa and Krakoa lives off them, so a by-product of mutant energy which Krakoa feeds off could be converted into magic only mutants can access.

Is Krakoa stealing psychic energy or just feeding off it in agreement with the deal he made with Xavier?

No idea what Moira’s plan is but it would be interesting to see her use every piece of Krakoa against the black hole empires.

It reminds me a bit to the RPG system Phoenix Command, where the creator had put a lot of thought into the rules for a particular part of an RPG experience, but forgot or was unable to create everything else that is required for an enjoyable experience. Which isn't an uncommon occurence. There have been several writers in the past who thought if they create something elaborate or complex it equals to being interesting, but failing to make it engaging.

100% agree with this statement, could not say it better.

I really enjoy reading your posts they make sense to me and fill in some of the blanks in the issues as it gives me some sort of perimeter to begin to put pieces in to place that make sense to me. I really wish the book did that. It's like even though we may not be 100% on the same page you frame things in a way that gives my mind access to the ability to actually go somewhere with mutant magic and begin to conceptualize how mutant abilities can be translated into equivalent of magic in the principle of type of magic. Makes me kind of think of the Charmed ones and the power of three. The original charmed ones.

That is great to hear, and it is funny you referenced Charmed because I used the tv show “The Originals” as my reference point to figure out what I think mutant magic is in Excalibur.

If you do not mind me asking, which bits are you not on the same page with?

[CGAR]

Where did you get mutant magic comes from the gates? Was that a data page?

Mutant magic is when mutants use their powers together in tandem (synergy), right? Is that not what it is?

[Rnap22]

Where did you get mutant magic comes from the gates? Was that a data page?

Mutant magic is when mutants use their powers together in tandem (synergy), right? Is that not what it is?

I’m with you.

[Outburstz]

Where did you get mutant magic comes from the gates? Was that a data page?

Mutant magic is when mutants use their powers together in tandem (synergy), right? Is that not what it is?

No that's mutant technology

Mutant magic is magic but it hasn't been fully laid out and explained yet to a level that most people would like in Excalibur series.

[dragon1440]

No that's mutant technology

Mutant magic is magic but it hasn't been fully laid out and explained yet to a level that most people would like in Excalibur series.

Theres a famous fantasy/scifi quote that fits in here..... Magic is just science we dont understand yet. Whos to say mutant magic and mutant technology are not two sides of the same coin?

[Rang10]

Yeah it’s not clear. You must have a PhD in rpg magic. It’s just another jab at people that “aren’t reading the book” or “haters”
No. The book is poorly written and so is the premise of mutant magic.
I’ve read every issue and still have no idea of what any of it actually means or where we’re getting that the magic is coming from in between the gates.

I guess I’m not smart enough to understand since it’s all there.

Well Tini says it is one way andthen sow another thing completely different. I think Ewing explained it a lot better on Sword

[CGAR]

No that's mutant technology

Mutant magic is magic but it hasn't been fully laid out and explained yet to a level that most people would like in Excalibur series.

Didn't one of the issues basically make it seem like mutant technology and mutant magic are the same thing?

[warlockofgreed]

Didn't one of the issues basically make it seem like mutant technology and mutant magic are the same thing?

It is not confirmed but what I took from the data page in#1, the opening of the gates is what lead to an energetic surge that became a source of power only mutants can access. My evidence that this currently exists within the gates is #11 when Rictor entered the incomplete gate. Rictor was lost, so if you enter a gate where the otherside is closed, where would you end up if not the place between the gates i.e. a corridor between the path? Then, when Apocalypse rescued Rictor, he came back mystically-empowered and strong enough to take on the Externals. It was never explained how Rictor became so strong. This suggests when Rictor used his mutant abilities to anchor himself, he siphoned magic power with his mutant abilities from this "corridor".

When mutants stand in an X formation, they channel the mystical power which was created by the gates opening to further empower a mutant spell.

I would say mutant magic is how mutant powers interact with magical forces, which would include mutant synergy (which could also be the same as a mutant spell).

In relation to mutant technology, the main difference is that mutant magic utilises mutant abilities/synergy to manipulate magical forces.

I think of science and magic as being two sides of the same coin if that helps. They can both accomplish the same thing but take different paths.

[Rnap22]

It is not confirmed but what I took from the data page in#1, the opening of the gates is what lead to an energetic surge that became a source of power only mutants can access. My evidence that this currently exists within the gates is #11 when Rictor entered the incomplete gate. Rictor was lost, so if you enter a gate where the otherside is closed, where would you end up if not the place between the gates i.e. a corridor between the path? Then, when Apocalypse rescued Rictor, he came back mystically-empowered and strong enough to take on the Externals. It was never explained how Rictor became so strong. This suggests when Rictor used his mutant abilities to anchor himself, he siphoned magic power with his mutant abilities from this "corridor".

When mutants stand in an X formation, they channel the mystical power which was created by the gates opening to further empower a mutant spell.

I would say mutant magic is how mutant powers interact with magical forces, which would include mutant synergy (which could also be the same as a mutant spell).

In relation to mutant technology, the main difference is that mutant magic utilises mutant abilities/synergy to manipulate magical forces.

I think of science and magic as being two sides of the same coin if that helps. They can both accomplish the same thing but take different paths.

I read that as well, but I didn’t take it literally where the magic is coming from. I took it as Krakoa and the rise of mutants was turn the sense of magic upside down.

I was just under the impression that Rictor was able to travel the space between gates because he was able to anchor himself to Krakoa. He was able to do the “spell” because his powers are now earth related, but Selene was the one who changed them to crystals, no?

You’ve clearly thought this out more than Tini (also when I said I was still confused, that wasn’t a jab at you.. you’ve given this a lot thought). It’s frustrating that everyone has their own idea of what mutant magic is. I think it should have been defined from the start and the start of the series was not good or clear of what was happening.

[ARkadelphia]

Chimera = mutant magic on steroids

[Grunty]

Chimera = mutant magic on steroids

Chimera = Homo Novissima prototypes.
Nothing magic about them. Just lab grown mass produced amalgamations in order to cram as many parts of different super powers into one body.

Or in case of Rasputin. Female Collosus plus additional popular powers and Magik's sword.

[BroHomo]

Chimera = Homo Novissima prototypes.
Nothing magic about them. Just lab grown mass produced amalgamations in order to cram as many parts of different super powers into one body.

Or in case of Rasputin. Female Collosus plus additional popular powers and Magik's sword.

Life itself is maaaagik

[warlockofgreed]

I read that as well, but I didn’t take it literally where the magic is coming from. I took it as Krakoa and the rise of mutants was turn the sense of magic upside down.

I was just under the impression that Rictor was able to travel the space between gates because he was able to anchor himself to Krakoa. He was able to do the “spell” because his powers are now earth related, but Selene was the one who changed them to crystals, no?

You’ve clearly thought this out more than Tini (also when I said I was still confused, that wasn’t a jab at you.. you’ve given this a lot thought). It’s frustrating that everyone has their own idea of what mutant magic is. I think it should have been defined from the start and the start of the series was not good or clear of what was happening.

I was under the same impression but at the back of my mind that did not make sense to me. One of the biggest problems I faced with this comic is the more mutant magic was used in spells, the less sense it made and left me more and more confused until I would scream into a pillow.

If we refer back to the issue when the external gate was made, I remember being interested in its creation but at the same time had no idea how it was made. Rictor appeared with power over magma (implied this was magic but was not explained how) and then he was able to turn the dead Externals into magic crystals which he then used with the other Externals in a spell to create the External Gate. Apparently, what they did was similar to the spell that extracted Candra’s power into a gem but even in the flashback of this, all we saw was Apocalypse stab Candra with a blade while everyone else stood there and poof the spell was complete. Then, when we have the data pages of spells, only the bare basics are given, and I end up scratching my head. I remember around this time Tini was on the Battle of the Atom podcast where the host said how good this issue was and magic was making sense and Tini said how the pieces were coming together (I am paraphrasing their words) but all I could think was “if it makes sense, can someone please do a public service and explain right now how it makes sense instead of just stating it?”. The final straw for me was #15 when they summoned Betsy and were in a O formation instead of an X. So much emphasis was made on the X and how the O was abolished as a weakness but they were clearly using it for their spell! After that, I was determined to re-read all of Excalibur and piece together what I think happened because apparently the clues were all there and by 15 issues, the concepts must have been explained in the comic even if not done in an efficient manner.

The whole reason I wrote these posts was because I realised I cannot solve this by myself and wanted other people’s opinion. I legitimately want to understand this concept and be able to have some fun exploring how this could work with other mutants not in the book e.g. Pixie and her family, Magik, Madelyne Pryor, Pyro or Toad.

There is a good chance everything I wrote is incorrect but got fed up with screaming into a pillow because I did not understand. Much rather take a leap and see where that takes me.

What I am trying to say is, I understand your confusion and frustration with the concept of mutant magic and that your jabs are not aimed at me.

A strong foundation for what mutant magic is should have been given at the beginning so people can at least understand the basics instead of throwing us in the deep end and none of it making sense. Part of me wonders if they waited because it ties into mutant synergy and the start of Reign of X highlights the importance of this.