"Superman" is a Mantle

[Jon Clark]

The problem with a mantle is that it is always comparing itself to itself.

Every Robin is judged based on the best qualities of all the other Robins. Jason was defined as either a "Grayson wannabe" Pre-Crisis or as someone totally different from Dick from Crisis until his death. Tim was originally "the Robin with living parents" and a reaction to Jason's bad-boy image. someone putting on the Robin mantle in 2222 will be defined in terms of what he shares with all the prior Robins and what he brings to the role.

Very few people are going to call out Green Arrow for not living up to the standard of Bruce Wayne despite the "Batman with a bow" description, but if Oliver had actually called himself "Batman" ....

Impulse had his own identity that got lost when he was turned into "Kid Flash" or worse yet "Flash 4.0".

And for good or ill anyone calling themselves "Superman"- be it Jon, Conner, Kenan, or Craig King- is going to draw more comparisons to Clark than someone calling themselves Mon-El, "Iron" Munro, or Hyperion.

[Superboy-Prime]

The problem with a mantle is that it is always comparing itself to itself.

Every Robin is judged based on the best qualities of all the other Robins. Jason was defined as either a "Grayson wannabe" Pre-Crisis or as someone totally different from Dick from Crisis until his death. Tim was originally "the Robin with living parents" and a reaction to Jason's bad-boy image. someone putting on the Robin mantle in 2222 will be defined in terms of what he shares with all the prior Robins and what he brings to the role.

Very few people are going to call out Green Arrow for not living up to the standard of Bruce Wayne despite the "Batman with a bow" description, but if Oliver had actually called himself "Batman" ....

Impulse had his own identity that got lost when he was turned into "Kid Flash" or worse yet "Flash 4.0".

And for good or ill anyone calling themselves "Superman"- be it Jon, Conner, Kenan, or Craig King- is going to draw more comparisons to Clark than someone calling themselves Mon-El, "Iron" Munro, or Hyperion.

That's also what makes mantles intriguing from a storytelling perspective.

[Jim Kelly]

Whatever floats your boat, I guess. If you like a story a whole lot then you want to see it used everywhere all the time--no matter the franchise. Like how every T.V. show, no matter what type, has to have a black and white fantasy episode (often with a film noir angle).

I don't want Superman to become a turnstyle, but I do like Elseworlds, stories set on other Earths or other planets, and stories set in the far distant future. If there's enough distance from the Superman of today, then I'm willing to go on that speculative journey.

Back in 1956 there was a Superman of 2956. And in 1965 there was a Superman of 2965--this was curious, as it was by Edmond Hamilton, Curt Swan and George Klein--the same men that worked on many a Legion story set on the exact same date, yet in a totally different continuity. And in 1981, there was a short-lived back up series about Superman of 2021, with three generations of Superman--but that's maybe a little too close to home. Grant Morrison was smart to set his One Million Superman in the 853rd century, since that's so far in the future it doesn't impact current continuity.

[Alpha]

That's also what makes mantles intriguing from a storytelling perspective.

Not really. It's interesting when completely different characters share the same role, but it's not interesting when similar characters with subtle differences have to compare themselves to each other. That's one of the many issues with Jon.

[Alpha]

Giving similar characters clearly different roles forces them to grow in unexpected directions and creates a greatee emphasis on their insividual identities.

Both these points combined are the reasons why Damian as Batman is a good idea for Diaman, but Jon as Superman is bad for Jon.

[The Frog Bros]

The idea of a mantle is certainly okay, and frankly Clark would want to have inspired people enough to where someone would take over for him after he's gone. I think that's one of his main (if not main) goal: inspiring people by his actions. It seems that the biggest issue with doing the whole mantle thing in the truest sense of the word is that, as mentioned, the successor is inherently going to be compared to the original.

Can someone take over for Clark after he's gone? Sure. He'd want that. But it's more than just putting on the costume. And at the end of the day, whoever follows him, Clark is/was the only one true Superman, regardless of what the successors are named or what costume they wear.

[SiegePerilous02]

How would it be if we constantly have people remind Jon that he's only the second Superman. You're basically saying he's redundant by nature.

Isn't that why people complain whenever writers portray Barry as the superior Flash?

He kind of is?

There is a world of difference between the Flashes and Superman. They have been either legacies or alternate Earth revamps from the beginning. There is no reason to equate the Superman identity with something like the Flash mantle. Clark is singularly cemented as Superman in a way that none of the Flashes are with that identity. And while it has produced some good, the legacy and mantle sharing with the Flash has also made the IP insufferable in many other ways. The idea of it ever happening with Superman too sounds absolutely terrible.

That's also what makes mantles intriguing from a storytelling perspective.

I think it's YMMV on how intriguing it is though.

Or if the potential intriguing elements are worth the drawbacks to the characters (like the Robins cannibalizing each others narratives) or tedious fandom in fighting. IMO, they definitely are not more often than not

[NaVi]

Superman = Clark
Clark = Superman
Jon = to look for life, to stop living from his father.
Superman, Batman, WW, they are not simple titles they are what Clark Bruce and Diana represent. They are identities that have created with their actions, experiences and way of seeing the world, that is why there is only one Superman, one Batman, one WW.

[Superboy-Prime]

Not really. It's interesting when completely different characters share the same role, but it's not interesting when similar characters with subtle differences have to compare themselves to each other. That's one of the many issues with Jon.

Making Jon different from Clark is something PKJ is trying to do.

[Superboy-Prime]

Superman = Clark
Clark = Superman
Jon = to look for life, to stop living from his father.
Superman, Batman, WW, they are not simple titles they are what Clark Bruce and Diana represent. They are identities that have created with their actions, experiences and way of seeing the world, that is why there is only one Superman, one Batman, one WW.

Yeah, just one Batman! Batman, Inc., Batman Beyond, Batman (Dick Grayson), and Batman (Azrael) be erased from the collective consciousness! *Cough*

[Gaius]

I think stuff like the Legion of the Super-Heroes (which I'll admit I don't read) are a better example of continuing on the "legacy" of Superman than just making a myriad of derivatives.

[Sacred Knight]

I will relish the day this will inevitably fail to the point even DC has to acknowledge it and rectify it. And this idea that Superman is a title just any pet character can use outside of alternate realities is squashed. I just hope the damage done to Superman himself is something he can bounce back from. I imagine he will, he's bounced back from plenty before. This may be be a little unique, the disrespectful push to replace him in an intended long-term scenario, but if any fictional character has that staying power to overcome its Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El. He's been overcoming meandering and blasé management for decades now after all. But as it stands its really the only thing left for a Superman fan to look forward to at this point, that inevitable moment where he swoops in to save the day and the statement is made that he is the one and only Superman. Its just a waiting game to get to that point.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yeah, just one Batman! Batman, Inc., Batman Beyond, Batman (Dick Grayson), and Batman (Azrael) be erased from the collective consciousness! *Cough*

And none of those are as cemented as Bruce as Batman. 99.9% of the time when someone says Batman, they mean Bruce Wayne. Not that Terry and Dick!Bats aren't popular in their own right, but they are not definitively on equal footing as Batman= Bruce.

And lol as if anyone cares about Azbats anymore.

I will relish the day this will inevitably fail to the point even DC has to acknowledge it and rectify it. And this idea that Superman is a title just any pet character can use outside of alternate realities is squashed. I just hope the damage done to Superman himself is something he can bounce back from. I imagine he will, he's bounced back from plenty before. This may be be a little unique, the disrespectful push to replace in him a long-term scenario, but if any fictional character has that staying power to overcome its Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El. He's been overcoming meandering and blasé management for decades now after all. But as it stands its really the only thing left for a Superman fan to look forward to at this point, that inevitable moment where he swoops in to save the day and the statement is made that he is the one and only Superman.

Yeah, but the fact that this might be happening when the character isn't as low in popularity and recognition as the various Flashes and GLs were when they were replaced is a pretty bad sign of how they view him.

[Sacred Knight]

Oh I agree. Its very troubling to say the least. Its not like I trust the company with him at all even after this crashes and burns. But I gotta look for that silver-lining anywhere at this point. Although depending on how much time it takes, who knows if I'll even care as much by the time that day arrives.

[Flash Gordon]

Yeah, just one Batman! Batman, Inc., Batman Beyond, Batman (Dick Grayson), and Batman (Azrael) be erased from the collective consciousness! *Cough*

There is only one Batman, and I say this as a huge Dick Grayson fan. Dick could be Batman, also- but the "also" is hella key there.

Batman Beyond is an alt universe future. Nobody cares about Az.