"Superman" is a Mantle

[Superboy-Prime]

I think where it gets subjective is that people view can view Terry as a stand in or "a" Batman, but not "the" Batman. And it's not as if saying he's a stand in/'"a" Batman needs to be inherently a bad thing.

Yes, we are in agreement on the main Batman thing. I think Batman's mantle sharing is in a weird place compared to the Flashes. You can't say there is only one Flash or even one main Flash since they've all had lengthy and impactful runs in the comics. That's why there is more nuance in the discussion with Batman. He's too big compared to any of the Flashes, but the stand ins have popular stories and fans even among people whose default opinion is Batman = Bruce

Even saying Terry is a stand-in for Bruce is false. He's not a stand-in, he's his successor. Bruce isn't going back to the role of Batman. Terry is Batman. He doesn't have to be your personal favorite, but the series leaves no room for doubt that the mantle of the Batman is his.

[NaVi]

The answer is obvious, but that doesn't mean it's a valid point. You think the general population knew who Miles Morales was before Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse?

Pretty sure they'd know who Batman Beyond is, though.

Bruce being the most popular Batman ≠ Bruce being the only Batman

When you talk about Flash you have to explain what Flash you talk about, but when you talk about Superman, Batman or WW you don't have to explain anything, the reason is that they are seen and treated (by the public and by DC) as the originals and the rest as alternative versions, they are very personal characters, what defines them are not the powers / abilities but their way of seeing and understanding the world, Jon can wear the suit called Superman and everything he wants, but he is not Superman, he is a cosplayer.

[Superboy-Prime]

When you talk about Flash you have to explain what Flash you talk about, but when you talk about Superman, Batman or WW you don't have to explain anything, the reason is that they are seen and treated (by the public and by DC) as the originals and the rest as alternative versions, they are very personal characters, what defines them are not the powers / abilities but their way of seeing and understanding the world, Jon can wear the suit called Superman and everything he wants, but he is not Superman, he is a cosplayer.

If DC says Jon is Superman, he's Superman.

[The Frog Bros]

I will relish the day this will inevitably fail to the point even DC has to acknowledge it and rectify it. And this idea that Superman is a title just any pet character can use outside of alternate realities is squashed. I just hope the damage done to Superman himself is something he can bounce back from. I imagine he will, he's bounced back from plenty before. This may be be a little unique, the disrespectful push to replace him in an intended long-term scenario, but if any fictional character has that staying power to overcome its Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El. He's been overcoming meandering and blasé management for decades now after all. But as it stands its really the only thing left for a Superman fan to look forward to at this point, that inevitable moment where he swoops in to save the day and the statement is made that he is the one and only Superman. Its just a waiting game to get to that point.

Kinda like that scene in Kingdom Come

[Kuwagaton]

We can end the series right now if anyone likes.

After all, the true Superman died alongside Siegel and Shuster. Everyone after is just a copy.

This sounds nice but what does it mean? Was it a copy years after creation, when Shuster wasn't drawing? Was it not really Superman decades after creation, when Siegel was writing in the same vein as writers like Hamilton? Siegel himself didn't see it this way, and I'm sure both men understood pretty early on that the character wouldn't end with them. Both men passed within a few years of each other, how does one decide the invalidation of the character?

[SiegePerilous02]

True. But copies based off the original concept--i.e utilizing that character just molding him and evolving him in somewhat differing ways--and doing what they're doing now creating a cheaply developed new character to take the role, I consider two very different things.

Yeah, there is a clear difference between Clark getting a new writer but still being Clark (albeit with tweaks and additions) and Barry Allen replacing Jay Garrick and in turn being replaced by Wally West.

Even saying Terry is a stand-in for Bruce is false. He's not a stand-in, he's his successor. Bruce isn't going back to the role of Batman. Terry is Batman. He doesn't have to be your personal favorite, but the series leaves no room for doubt that the mantle of the Batman is his.

A successor in a future timeline for one version of Batman, in a show that ended in 2001, and didn't replace Bruce across all forms of media. So he's "a" Batman, but certainly not "the."

So we can call him a successor in the context of his series, but saying there are multiple Batmen will never be the same as saying there are multiple Flashes or GLs. Same with Superman

If DC says Jon is Superman, he's Superman.

Well he can be "A" Superman, but won't be "the"

[Superboy-Prime]

A successor in a future timeline for one version of Batman, in a show that ended in 2001, and didn't replace Bruce across all forms of media. So he's "a" Batman, but certainly not "the."

So we can call him a successor in the context of his series, but saying there are multiple Batmen will never be the same as saying there are multiple Flashes or GLs. Same with Superman



Well he can be "A" Superman, but won't be "the"

I never claimed that either of them would be "the" Batman or "the" Superman. They're just proof that there's not only one Batman or Superman.

But, uh, in the case of Batman, I wouldn't be so sure of "they'll never be like the Flashes" if I were you.

[SiegePerilous02]

But, uh, in the case of Batman, I wouldn't be so sure of "they'll never be like the Flashes" if I were you.

Why is that? Because Bruce has gone from 1939 until now cemented as Batman, I don't see anything gaining traction to overturn that much history. At least not soon.

"The Batman" coming out and likely getting sequels if its successful, and reaching a far wider audience than just comic readers, is just going to compound this

[Superboy-Prime]

Why is that? Because Bruce has gone from 1939 until now cemented as Batman, I don't see anything gaining traction to overturn that much history. At least not soon.

"The Batman" coming out and likely getting sequels if its successful, and reaching a far wider audience than just comic readers, is just going to compound this

Because Jace is joining Bruce as Batman in main continuity. It'll pretty much be like Barry and Wally. Peter and Miles. Or, like... Logan and X-23 (I dunno, people seem to like her as Wolverine). And Conner and Jon (Though neither of them will ever be the real Superboy).

[Celgress]

Agreed. Reign of the Supermen did the same thing waaaay back in 1993.

Now that I think about it, wasn't the whole point of that story to basically refute the OP's assertion...?

Yeah, it was also great (it is one of my favorite modern Superman stories) although Superior Spider-Man was more epic, IMO, likely because it was longer.

[Celgress]

Manga is a different beast that yields different expectations. Like you'd expect a manga to dry up and tumble away pretty quickly without a guiding hand or the general association with the original creator. Nevermind decades later.....

I don't completely agree. Many of my favorite Manga/Anime are decades old and still going strong (Lupin, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, Naruto, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, One Piece).

Edit - Take Dragon Ball's Goku and Future Trunks. Goku is the GOAT of the main series but Future Trunks is the GOAT of the spin-off material Xenoverse & Heroes. Unlike with Jon and The Legion, Trunks wasn't given Goku's leftovers but rather his own unique set of allies and villains as a Time Patroller. North American comics want to make new characters without putting in the work is why I think they fail nine times out of ten. A character can't ride on another character's coattails forever. Miles worked because he had his own unique setting free of Peter when he started he was also given many of his own allies and villains or new spins were put on Peter's supporting cast, the same goes for Spider-Gwen early in her career.

[SiegePerilous02]

Because Jace is joining Bruce as Batman in main continuity. It'll pretty much be like Barry and Wally. Peter and Miles. Or, like... Logan and X-23 (I dunno, people seem to like her as Wolverine). And Conner and Jon (Though neither of them will ever be the real Superboy).

Eh, we'll see how long it lasts. We shouldn't count the chickens before they hatch yet on the Future Slate stuff. At most it would be comparable to Peter and Miles if it takes off.

But we've got a loooooooong ass way to go before the Batman mantle will ever be comparable to the Flash. In which Jay, Barry and Wally all have near equal claim to the mantle, and Batman is clearly Bruce > everyone else. Even with Spider-Man, Peter is still #1.

And while I respect the creation of Miles and how important it is he took off, I don't like the idea of multiple Spider-Men. I think a new teenage solo superhero who is filling the niche Peter is too old to fill, and Peter being an inspirational figure and mentor figure for him, would be neat. But literally making him Spider-Man is kind of boring. The appeal to me of superhero comics is seeing all these different characters in colorful costumes with flashy names, each standing out from each other. Multiple Spider-Men, multiple Batmen, multiple Wolverines, multiple Supermen, each with costumes only being slightly different from each other...it's boring. But the almighty brand is everything and comic fans don't like full blown new things anymore, so we get no creative new costumed identities.

[Celgress]

Eh, we'll see how long it lasts. We shouldn't count the chickens before they hatch yet on the Future Slate stuff. At most it would be comparable to Peter and Miles if it takes off.

But we've got a loooooooong ass way to go before the Batman mantle will ever be comparable to the Flash. In which Jay, Barry and Wally all have near equal claim to the mantle, and Batman is clearly Bruce > everyone else. Even with Spider-Man, Peter is still #1.

And while I respect the creation of Miles and how important it is he took off, I don't like the idea of multiple Spider-Men. I think a new teenage solo superhero who is filling the niche Peter is too old to fill, and Peter being an inspirational figure and mentor figure for him, would be neat. But literally making him Spider-Man is kind of boring. The appeal to me of superhero comics is seeing all these different characters in colorful costumes with flashy names, each standing out from each other. Multiple Spider-Men, multiple Batmen, multiple Wolverines, multiple Supermen, each with costumes only being slightly different from each other...it's boring. But the almighty brand is everything and comic fans don't like full blown new things anymore, so we get no creative new costumed identities.

I agree with you completely. In such a scenario you could use Peter to tell stories you couldn't with Miles and the other way around. Sadly, that said, Papa Disney will NEVER allow such a status quo while the current version of Peter Parker is still so insanely popular. This is why Miles would probably continue to work best in his own universe, ideally.

[manwhohaseverything]

Nah, they are all named "Clark Kent". Less copies/legacies than just reimaginings of the same guy

It's why Earth-1 Clark isn't considered a legacy of Earth-2 Clark. How can he be a legacy of himself?

They all pretty much legacies for me.I mean,in my family there is two guy with same name(it's a family tradition).they are father-son.They have similarites.But,i wouldn't call them same just cause they have the same name.The two earth concept is basically legacy outside the universe to the readers.It might not be inside.Even then the goldenage dude had been treated as the old counter part to the silverage dude.which is what clark is.He's an oldman in spirit,now.

[MadFacedKid]

When multiversity first came out I thought it would be like a Superman of different worlds type book. I liked that storyline with the various Supermen combatting Prophecy and definitely would like to see stuff like that with characters from different universes or rather Superman from different universes kind of like a council of Reed’s