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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    That was the criticism Bill Cosby had of Archie Bunker, that a lot of racists didn't get that it was parody and thought, since he's the main character, that the show was saying this is right.
    Exactly the same **** happened over here with Alf Garnett. The worse he got the more some people unironically saw Alf as a hero.

  2. #92
    Ultimate Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Not a show, but an SNL sketch.

    I wonder how ppl would react to the “It’s Pat” character/sketches if they were introduced today.
    Well, not today; starting this Saturday.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Not a show, but an SNL sketch.

    I wonder how ppl would react to the “It’s Pat” character/sketches if they were introduced today.
    Well, not today; starting this Saturday.
    I'm not sure Belushi's samauri sketches would fly today either.

  4. #94
    Ultimate Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I'm not sure Belushi's samauri sketches would fly today either.
    I think (some very vocal) ppl don’t understand comedy any more.

  5. #95
    Sailing the seas Chris Lang's Avatar
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    Would Howdy Doody fly today? Well, some characters would fit in better than others.

    Phineas T. Bluster would be just fine. This world has no shortage of egotistical, self-serving politicians.

    John J. Fadoozle, the self-proclaimed greatest private eye, would be okay. A boastful but not very competent detective is good comedy fodder.

    Clarabell the clown, however, might have some problems. The image of clowns has taken quite a beating the past several decades. While Clarabell was always a Non Ironic Clown, and the pranks he pulled on the cast (including, but not limited to, squirting them with his water bottles) were played for laughs, these days media is full of clowns who are either sad or scary.

    And Chief Thunderthud ... no, just no. He may have originated the word 'Cowabunga' (made popular with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and surfers), but there are a lot of Native American stereotypes that just wouldn't fly today. Also, any Native American in a kid's show would have to be played by an actor who is Native American in real life.

    It's worth noting that Thunderthud was nowhere to be found in the 1976 revival, The New Howdy Doody Show, and the actor who played him was playing a different character, the fictitious producer character Nicholson Muir. Possibly they knew even back then that Thunderthud was best left behind back in the 1950s.

  6. #96
    Sailing the seas Chris Lang's Avatar
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    TCM is doing a series titled 'Reframed Classics', where they discuss the more problematic aspects of movies that are regarded as classics. They start off with the most obvious choice, Gone With The Wind.

  7. #97
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    I think (some very vocal) ppl don’t understand comedy any more.
    That and when people cannot comprehend parody or social commentary.

    I remember reading Huck Finn when I was in Junior High and thinking it was such a parody and social commentary on the racism and social attitudes of the time it was written. But then, much later, I hear black and white kids saying things like, "I can't believe they can make us read that racist s**t in school". Even my own father could not comprehend that "Brave New World" was a parody of certain sexual practices and attitudes, not a promotion of them.

    Racism or lack of it, like all other human social constructs, is whatever people define it as. Or, today, whatever loudly is proclaimed and everyone feels they have to officially adhere to that definition. And I'm fine with that except when it starts meaning that old stuff has to be treated as it would be were it made today as if our definitions are the be and end all final word. the objective moral and ethical stance. There may well be a future in which our most enlightened attitudes are considered hopelessly racist and barbaric. But that would likely be a future similar to Demolition Man.
    Power with Girl is better.

  8. #98
    Ultimate Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    That and when people cannot comprehend parody or social commentary.

    I remember reading Huck Finn when I was in Junior High and thinking it was such a parody and social commentary on the racism and social attitudes of the time it was written. But then, much later, I hear black and white kids saying things like, "I can't believe they can make us read that racist s**t in school". Even my own father could not comprehend that "Brave New World" was a parody of certain sexual practices and attitudes, not a promotion of them.

    Racism or lack of it, like all other human social constructs, is whatever people define it as. Or, today, whatever loudly is proclaimed and everyone feels they have to officially adhere to that definition. And I'm fine with that except when it starts meaning that old stuff has to be treated as it would be were it made today as if our definitions are the be and end all final word. the objective moral and ethical stance. There may well be a future in which our most enlightened attitudes are considered hopelessly racist and barbaric. But that would likely be a future similar to Demolition Man.
    Sometimes I think I’m the only person who feels this. Nice to know I’m not.
    Demolition Man is a good example of a society that neuters itself, actually.

  9. #99
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Sometimes I think I’m the only person who feels this. Nice to know I’m not.
    Demolition Man is a good example of a society that neuters itself, actually.
    Yeah, but they save a ton of money not having to buy toilet paper

  10. #100
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    That gets me thinking of other things that would offend people today even while getting a big laugh.

    Ed Ames, a Native American, appearing on the Tonight Show, throwing a tomahawk (which would set off the racial stereotype offense) and accidentally hitting the crotch of a target. Not the intended target but Johnny Carson instantly reacting with, "And I didn't even know you were Jewish".

    Then again, the alleged Julie Newmar incident which I can't find and possibly was not aired, would have no problems today as a joke.

    Newmar walks in and puts a cat on her lap.

    Newmar: Would you like to stroke my *****?

    Carson: I'd love to. Would you mind moving that damn cat out of the way?
    Actually, I remember seeing a clip of that, but it wasn't Newmar. I want to say it was Zsa Zsa Gabor.

    EDIT: I was wrong. It was a show where Jane Fonda was talking to Johnny, where she said her son had heard that cat story and asked Johnny if it was true. Johnny said "No, I think I'd remember that."

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=wRR1aKBOCOQ&feature=share
    Last edited by AnakinFlair; 03-06-2021 at 11:11 AM.

  11. #101
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    No offense, but I feel like people in this thread are the sensitive ones. People do understand comedy, they just don't care for outdated stereotypes. Some people take it too far, but it's not as "OMG White people are oppressed" as others make it out to be.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    No offense, but I feel like people in this thread are the sensitive ones. People do understand comedy, they just don't care for outdated stereotypes. Some people take it too far, but it's not as "OMG White people are oppressed" as others make it out to be.
    Yes, there was a time when blackface was considered parody, social commentary, and comedy. Recognition of that sort of injustice is how we grow. Some are quicker to accept growth than others. Some fail forever to accept it, and insist prejudices shouldn't be taken seriously.

  13. #103
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    Yes, there was a time when blackface was considered parody, social commentary, and comedy. Recognition of that sort of injustice is how we grow. Some are quicker to accept growth than others. Some fail forever to accept it, and insist prejudices shouldn't be taken seriously.
    True but there's a feeling that nothing can be joked about. Yes, blackface is way too far. But, to give an example, in the first Avengers movie, there's the scene where Natasha is criticizing what Loki has done. Thor says, "Have a care. That's my brother you're talking about". She says, "You're brother just murdered x number of people". He says, "Um, he was adopted".

    There was a young woman who wrote an article saying she felt as if she had been kicked in the stomach when he said that because here's this character she read in the comics since she was a kid- and she was adopted- making a joke that implies that adopted children are less loved and less truly part of the family than biological children.

    And I get that and I sympathize. On the other hand, it got one of the biggest laughs in the movie. Is it really because people think adopted children are less loved? Or is it a joke?

    I'm fat. I sometimes wince at a fat joke and I sometimes think it's funny. I'm bi-sexual. I sometimes wince at a gay joke. I do remember a comedian making a joke and following it by saying, please don't send me letters. I'm 100% for gay rights. It was a f***ing joke. That made me feel a lot better about it.

    But the thing is, I'd rather hear fat jokes than have the implied censorship or social pressure where everyone feels they're on eggshells that someone might be offended by every little thing and there might be dire consequences for every little comment some professionally offended person might not like.

    And nobody said white people are oppressed. There's all kinds of jokes about white people as there should be.

    Ultimate Spider-Man to the Kingpin: "You so fat you got your own zip code". [Fat jokes].

    Ultimate Jean Grey to Ultimate Spider-Man: "Will you please stop picturing me naked?"

    Spider-Man: "Okay. Okay, now. Okay, really now. Okay this time I really absolutely totally am going to stop. Okay, now. Okay, this time..." [OOPs, Spidey's a teenager and they're making jokes about it. Must be sexist].

    I think, a lot of the time, almost all of the time, really, what matters is who is telling the joke and what you feel about their attitude. I never really remember anyone being offencdd by Don Rickles because they knew he didn't believe the things he joked about. He was doing a parody of a bigot.

    https://www.salon.com/2015/06/10/10_...eing_offended/
    Power with Girl is better.

  14. #104
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    No one's censoring anything. It's just people being more aware of things.

    Besides, it's not like we never had over sensitive people in the past.

  15. #105
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    In The Replacement Killers, the edited out the romance between Chow Yun Fat and Scorvino because it made test audiences uncomfortable. I would rather people uncomfortable with racism than an attractive Asian man kissing a white woman.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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