Are Batman and Superman good fathers?

[Jabare]

Thoughts? They both have biological sons and you could argue they have adoptive children as well.


I thought about making this a poll, but I'm more interested in people's opinions and reasonings than taking a tally.

[Robanker]

They try to be, and succeed to varying results. I'd argue that Bruce should be a better father given how much experience he has mentoring troubled young people, but he's still written to be emotionally distant and generally not great at it. His track record as a result is very mixed:

Dick turned out pretty well!
Jason is a hot mess.
Tim... Is complicated, but emotionally he generally seems okay.
Damian's factory setting was "abomination" so Bruce really had his work cut out for him, but given how often they are at odds and Damian backslides to being an ******* (and yes, this is just cyclical writing from editorial not knowing what to do with Damian so they enforce his holding pattern)... Not great.

Clark historically had trouble as a mentor but does his best by Jon. People are going to **** on him for the whole Jor-El and time skip Jon thing, but his parenting to that point did give his son the tools to become a decent young man. Giving your kid the emotional and mental tools to overcome adversity and be a good, happy and successful person is pretty much the job of a parent so by that metric, Lois and Clark are successes despite some admittedly major hiccups.

Even if you hate Jon, I don't think it's fair to argue that he's anything short of a good person. Boring? Up to you. Clone of his father? Almost certainly, sadly, but he is kind and does his best to help others.

But he could have been a better father figure to Conner, though the cloning thing does make that very awkward given his genetic material was stolen from him by his arch enemy and given life without his consent.

Bruce is a much more damaged man and had a harder task. Yeah, his son's pretty awful, but you can't pin Damian on him entirely even if they avoid each other as much as they can. Like Clark, Bruce has made many monumental mistakes with Damian and sadly one of them is trusting his son won't backslide to murder when he's proven that's something he does.

Clark raised his son with his wife in a happy home until a very poor decision (born of Clark most likely needing to believe his father wasn't a complete dick and therefor trusting him naively as he has been shown to do a lot over the course of his history) robbed him of several years of his son's time.

In summation, I think both of them genuinely try and if we're going by just the end results of their biological children, Clark's been the better father, but to be fair he didn't have the curveball Bruce did in Damian's upbringing. Because of that it doesn't feel entirely fair to judge them against one another.

[Agent Z]

They try to be, and succeed to varying results. I'd argue that Bruce should be a better father given how much experience he has mentoring troubled young people, but he's still written to be emotionally distant and generally not great at it. His track record as a result is very mixed:

Dick turned out pretty well!
Jason is a hot mess.
Tim... Is complicated, but emotionally he generally seems okay.
Damian's factory setting was "abomination" so Bruce really had his work cut out for him, but given how often they are at odds and Damian backslides to being an ******* (and yes, this is just cyclical writing from editorial not knowing what to do with Damian so they enforce his holding pattern)... Not great.

Clark historically had trouble as a mentor but does his best by Jon. People are going to **** on him for the whole Jor-El and time skip Jon thing, but his parenting to that point did give his son the tools to become a decent young man. Giving your kid the emotional and mental tools to overcome adversity and be a good, happy and successful person is pretty much the job of a parent so by that metric, Lois and Clark are successes despite some admittedly major hiccups.

Even if you hate Jon, I don't think it's fair to argue that he's anything short of a good person. Boring? Up to you. Clone of his father? Almost certainly, sadly, but he is kind and does his best to help others.

But he could have been a better father figure to Conner, though the cloning thing does make that very awkward given his genetic material was stolen from him by his arch enemy and given life without his consent.

Bruce is a much more damaged man and had a harder task. Yeah, his son's pretty awful, but you can't pin Damian on him entirely even if they avoid each other as much as they can. Like Clark, Bruce has made many monumental mistakes with Damian and sadly one of them is trusting his son won't backslide to murder when he's proven that's something he does.

Clark raised his son with his wife in a happy home until a very poor decision (born of Clark most likely needing to believe his father wasn't a complete dick and therefor trusting him naively as he has been shown to do a lot over the course of his history) robbed him of several years of his son's time.

In summation, I think both of them genuinely try and if we're going by just the end results of their biological children, Clark's been the better father, but to be fair he didn't have the curveball Bruce did in Damian's upbringing. Because of that it doesn't feel entirely fair to judge them against one another.

I wouldn't even say Clark had trouble as a mentor so much as he's had little reason to be one. The other members of the Super family where either too old to be mentored by him or too independent.

[Alpha]

If we're being serious, Bruce is a terrible father. What kind of father would let their biological kids and adopted ones run around at night to fight thugs with guns and supervillains with flamethrowers, coldguns, superstrength that can snap your neck with one hand, etc.

Jon at least has super strength and invulnerability.

[king81992]

Superman was a good father. We can debate his skills as a mentor, but DC doesn't seem interested in doing more with the Super family.

Batman is a terrible father and mentor. He was a good mentor to Dick and Tim until a certain point, then the relationships degraded.

[Vordan]

Batman is not. The only one you can say is better off for having Bruce in his life is Dick. He horribly messed up with Jason, Tim’s life went to hell after he joined up with Bruce, and while Damian has benefitted from his father’s influence, he’s also suffered in his father’s name. Also literally every single one of Bruce’s Robins have died at some point, so he’s pretty terrible by that standard alone.

Superman... is alright. Not quite a failure on the same level as Bruce but still not great. Clark has always been eager to pawn off members of his “Family” on other people to deal with. He was pretty cold towards Kon at first, very controlling of Kara when he first met her, and he’s had some failures raising Jon.

[Restingvoice]

Uhh... define "good"

[Drako]

The moment Clark let his child go in a space adventure with his psycho father, that no long ago was doing some weird sh*t, he became a bad father.

[CaptCleghorn]

It's been said here that Bruce is damaged and Clark is relatively undamaged. Dealing with the iconic characters as opposed to more recent or writer-flavored personalities, I'd agree. So, to use a baseball analogy, Tommy Lasorda once said the best coaches are those that were necessarily good at the game because they knew how to work at it more. Bruce also fits into the trope of trying to give your child a better upbringing than you had. Clark, on the other hand, was raised by Jonathan, who was considered pretty darn good.

I haven't read much Superman or Batman recently and my biggest experience with Damian has been when her was Dick's sidekick. So, I do not speak from examples, but from generalities. I do, however, have extensive knowledge of Reed Richards who has rightly been criticized for his role as a father, but has also been showing growth and positive qualities as well. Like Reed, both Bruce and Clark spend a lot of time at work and all three costume their kids up to work with them in supposed hopes of taking over the family business. I'm not really sure if I would do differently in those circumstances.

I am the father of a now married 30 year old son, so I do have personal experience with this fathering thing.

Uhh... define "good"

A) This
B) QFT
C) What they said
D) All of the above

[seismic-2]

Remember the Super Sons issue (I don't remember which one, and I don't plan to go back and find the exact quote) wherein Jon is complaining to Clark that his 10 PM curfew is unfair, because Damien's dad lets him stay out all night. Clark response was something like, "Damien's dad dresses like a bat and gets hit in the head 28 times every night. So maybe not the best argument."

[Aramis]

Clark, yes, in general. Like, "regular good father" good. Of course he's messed up (Bendis "brilliant" idea with Jor-El taking his kid away being the worst one), but in general he does well, and he always tries to be better for his son. Conner was a complicated scenario, so I don't blame Clark if it was difficult for him.

Bruce is both a terrible father and a mentor. Of course I can understand why, he has more traumas than gadgets in his belt, but that doesn't mean he's not a bad father. Some emotional moments here and there with them (some of which happen after beating his kids down mind you) don't compare with his more negative traits. He did seem to treat Cass well though...

[Restingvoice]

The moment Clark let his child go in a space adventure with his psycho father, that no long ago was doing some weird sh*t, he became a bad father.

No for that one I'm blaming Bendis because Jor-El was supposed to poofed out by Dr. Man Dong

[Agent Z]

Batman is not. The only one you can say is better off for having Bruce in his life is Dick. He horribly messed up with Jason, Tim’s life went to hell after he joined up with Bruce, and while Damian has benefitted from his father’s influence, he’s also suffered in his father’s name. Also literally every single one of Bruce’s Robins have died at some point, so he’s pretty terrible by that standard alone.

Superman... is alright. Not quite a failure on the same level as Bruce but still not great. Clark has always been eager to pawn off members of his “Family” on other people to deal with. He was pretty cold towards Kon at first, very controlling of Kara when he first met her, and he’s had some failures raising Jon.

From what I recall, Kon wanted nothing to do with him when they first met and it wasn't until Kon was retconned into being a clone of his that Clark took a role in mentoring him.

His overprotectiveness of seems pretty understandable if not justified given what happened to her later.

[Frontier]

It depends on what you're reading/your own opinion of the character.

Damian's factory setting was "abomination" so Bruce really had his work cut out for him, but given how often they are at odds and Damian backslides to being an ******* (and yes, this is just cyclical writing from editorial not knowing what to do with Damian so they enforce his holding pattern)... Not great.

I know Damian's not your favorite character but it seems pretty clear to me that he's come leagues away from what he was like in his introductory arc, and I think part of that is Dick and Bruce's influence.

Batman is not. The only one you can say is better off for having Bruce in his life is Dick. He horribly messed up with Jason, Tim’s life went to hell after he joined up with Bruce, and while Damian has benefitted from his father’s influence, he’s also suffered in his father’s name. Also literally every single one of Bruce’s Robins have died at some point, so he’s pretty terrible by that standard alone.

I guess if you believe they were only in the position to die because Bruce made them Superheroes, yeah, even if he would've moved heaven and Earth to save them...but he's still just a man at the end of the day.

I mean, Tim went to Bruce and there was good to his life as Robin, so ultimately I think it evens out like with the other Robins.

[Restingvoice]

I can't separate the context that Robin was created to be marketed for kids in a more simplistic fictional world and the later reinterpretation of Batman world to be more realistic while also keeping the kid appeal character alive for corporate branding and merchandising.

So I have to discount any argument that say Batman is endangering a kid by making him fight criminals. We're way pass that and there's no point arguing that. The more they/we try to keep things realistic, by danger or death, while also having to follow company branding, and we have to, because it's mandated, the sillier it sounds. So there's no point.

Taking Dick and teaching him to be a child soldier - discounted
Accepting Tim who is not his son to follow up after Jason's death - discounted
Neglecting Damian after going to hell and back to revive him after death - HEAVILY DISCOUNTED. That doesn't even make sense in narrative. Heck all of those doesn't make sense, that's why they're discounted.