Are Batman and Superman good fathers?

[Restingvoice]

But we're not criticizing the authors here, we're criticizing the characters.

Yes, but the authors and office politics affect/informed how the character is portrayed. Since the characters are written differently by different writers, I have to categorize it first. It's like this: people ask is Batman a good father, I ask back first, which Batman?

Like I feel silly when people say Batman's not a good father because he's taking kids fighting criminals if the story is intended to be an inspiring/empowering superhero story for kids/teens. I know what's the purpose of why these characters act this way in this genre, so why are we questioning this?

Different answer if the story's meant to be more realistic, or a deconstruction of the superhero genre, but basically I can't separate the background/intent with the story/character.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think Superman is, back in the 70s he seemed like a disappointed Father but now I think so, just like he's a good husband. Batman, I think that's more questionable. Especially when he use to be brooding over his parents death all the time. It really made it feel like none of the other orphans around him could mourn their parents. So, Superman yes, Batman's too crazy.

[Will Evans]

They’re better than Ollie

[Robanker]

They’re better than Ollie

I'd say "low bar to clear" but that's accomplished by walking.

[The Darknight Detective]

Like I feel silly when people say Batman's not a good father because he's taking kids fighting criminals if the story is intended to be an inspiring/empowering superhero story for kids/teens. I know what's the purpose of why these characters act this way in this genre, so why are we questioning this?

Some people just don't like Batman? Seriously, nobody in-universe had a problem with Batman fighting crime with a kid for decades. In reality, this is beyond silly, of course, but in the comics, it has been perfectly acceptable. Therefore, he can't get dinged for it.

[Robanker]

Some people just don't like Batman? Seriously, nobody in-universe had a problem with Batman fighting crime with a kid for decades. In reality, this is beyond silly, of course, but in the comics, it has been perfectly acceptable. Therefore, he can't get dinged for it.

Yeah I don't think it's fair to hold the concept of Robin against Bruce, but I do think the trajectory of those people after his influence is.

If we're calling out Bruce for Robin, literally every kid hero is a poor reflection on anyone else. Even Jon "invulnerable" Kent because the threats he and his dad go up against are to goddamn scale. I do understand the idea that GLs shouldn't be children, but that's more because I don't see children being directed by the Guardians as a good idea.

[The Darknight Detective]

Yeah I don't think it's fair to hold the concept of Robin against Bruce, but I do think the trajectory of those people after his influence is.

If we're calling out Bruce for Robin, literally every kid hero is a poor reflection on anyone else. Even Jon "invulnerable" Kent because the threats he and his dad go up against are to goddamn scale. I do understand the idea that GLs shouldn't be children, but that's more because I don't see children being directed by the Guardians as a good idea.

I agree the idea that superhero kids, with powers or not, are just to hard to swallow today.

[Nite-Wing]

The idea of kid heroes is bad for everyone
Bruce has taken heat for this concept in the comics and it continues to this day
Every time a Robin is hurt he looks like an irresponsible adult everytime a Robin is killed he looks worse
It just seems unfair to make Bruce seem immune to the consequences of his bad decisions
The whole child soldier concept of Robin isn't going away. Batman and to a lesser case GA are the only non powered heroes who teach kids how to kill


The character of Leslie Thompkins literally exists because Robin and co in Gotham are the heights of irresponsible behaviors from all adults around them.

[Robanker]

I agree the idea that superhero kids, with powers or not, are just to hard to swallow today.

Only for adults with rigid imaginations. Kids never had trouble with it. They know it's not real.

Adults are the ones who see an alien flying and lifting a planet with his hands but not asking "why doesn't he shoot through like a bullet since he's not exerting that force over a wide area?"

Kids can absolutely be pedantic, but I think on some level they know it's all make-believe. They have logic issues with stuff (Clark Kent's glasses, for example) but on some level they know Robin's fictional and in a world where career criminals simply cannot aim and somehow the Batmobile operates in the most populated city in America but never gets stuck in traffic. In many ways, they're smarter than we are.

Adults? We want our superheroes to be unassailable because if I like something silly it means I'm not a growed-up!!!!!1!

[The Darknight Detective]

Only for adults with rigid imaginations. Kids never had trouble with it. They know it's not real.

Adults are the ones who see an alien flying and lifting a planet with his hands but not asking "why doesn't he shoot through like a bullet since he's not exerting that force over a wide area?"

Kids can absolutely be pedantic, but I think on some level they know it's all make-believe. They have logic issues with stuff (Clark Kent's glasses, for example) but on some level they know Robin's fictional and in a world where career criminals simply cannot aim and somehow the Batmobile operates in the most populated city in America but never gets stuck in traffic.

Adults? We want our superheroes to be unassailable because if I like something silly it means I'm not a growed-up!!!!!1!

Yeah, if you start tallying up all of the things that wouldn't work in the real world, it would be a very long list.

[Robanker]

Yeah, if you start tallying up all of the things that wouldn't work in the real world, it would be a very long list.

Exactly. Revel in the world as it asks to be received and call foul when it doesn't obey its own rules, certainly, but NONE of these characters were meant to hold up to scrutiny and honestly cannot. At most, you get a shoulder shrug of "I guess that works" and have to move on. No solution is air-tight. Bruce bleeds on crime scenes? He actually has fake blood in every database on Earth to redirect his actual blood samples left as Batman to other people! Huzzah! That's a big "I mean okay dude, whatever you say, but that sounds very stupid." There's no satisfying answer if you keep climbing up those grapevines so why bother?

They're big, colorful expressions of action and morality plays that can be used as ciphers for human experiences and lend themselves VERY well to cross-genre experimentation. Revel in it. Embrace it. Don't apologize for it.

[married guy]

IMO:

Post crisis Bruce is a terrible father.

As others have mentioned, Dick & Tim brought stability to Bruce. That should not be the case with parent/child relationships.

Special consideration should to Alfred for helping out as much he could. Bless his heart.

Also special consideration should go to Dick for helping out with Tim, and Damian. After Bruce returned, Damian should have stayed with Dick.


I want to say: Oliver Queen sucks at being a parental figure, too.

I will give Hal Jordan points for being a great uncle, even in the afterlife, lol.

This. On all counts.
DC really leaned into the damaged psyche version of Bruce Wayne to the detriment of his family.
I can't think of a ward he HASN'T **** on post-Crisis.
Dick
Jason
Tim
Steph
and to a lesser extent Damian have all been abused, berated or abandoned by him.

[SiegePerilous02]

Bruce used to be a good father figure/mentor. Yeah realistically not, but this isn't real life and never will be. His adoption of Dick and training him to be Robin was originally meant to be a good thing and it was. The appeal of the Robin concept was a kid suffering a kid's worst nightmare (death of their parents) and immediately getting the coolest new dad as a consolation to take the sting out. This doesn't work if Batman is terrible as a father. From the original comics up through COIE, Bruce lived up to being a positive influence on Dick despite some flaws. He was never any more of a jerk than anyone else considering the standards of the time (everybody was written like an ******* periodically because of the standards of what was acceptable back then). There was conflict between them towards the end but that was mostly resolved by the time Dick became Nightwing.

The break in eras with COIE and retconning in more tension between Bruce and Dick, plus they keep adding more kids while also making Bruce unstable and cold. It's a sign of how they have seriously mismanaged the character over the past few decades. So Old School Bruce = The Best Dad. Modern Bruce = overall a dumpster fire.

Clark, despite being good at pretending he's an extrovert, is even more introverted than Bruce. He has a friendly relationship with Dick, sort of like a "cool uncle" but didn't have the responsibility of taking care of a kid regularly like that. When presented with Kara, who is only around 15-16 with nowhere else to go with no other extended family or even members of her species around, he (in)famously told her to go live in an orphanage. But not to get adopted. So he fumbled that opportunity pretty badly, and never felt the need to take on a sidekick. All the modern kids and spin offs that show up later have the excuse of maybe not needing him anyway, but he doesn't try either. I think it makes sense for Clark not to be comfortable with fatherhood/mentorship and only really getting the opportunity when he and Lois have Jon.

Ideally they'd both even out and be good dads: Bruce would be a positive influence on Dick and if we have to add more kids he'd have similar dynamics with them. Clark would be bad at it and resistant to trying until he matures, gets married and has Jon.

[Gaius]

Well, I mean neither would be if they existed in real life on the basis of bringing kids into vigilantism but allowing for that as the mulligan.

Superman: Hasn't been an actual parent or parental figure as long as Bruce has, so less chance to build up bad stuff but the Jor-El thing is pretty bad.

Batman: lol, no.

[dornwolf]

Before the forced age up I'd of said yes for Superman for sure and Batman depends entirely on whose writing him at that moment.