Are Batman and Superman good fathers?

[Robanker]

It depends on what you're reading/your own opinion of the character.

I know Damian's not your favorite character but it seems pretty clear to me that he's come leagues away from what he was like in his introductory arc, and I think part of that is Dick and Bruce's influence.

I guess if you believe they were only in the position to die because Bruce made them Superheroes, yeah, even if he would've moved heaven and Earth to save them...but he's still just a man at the end of the day.

I mean, Tim went to Bruce and there was good to his life as Robin, so ultimately I think it evens out like with the other Robins.

I think he's made a lot of progress and would stick but DC keeps backsliding on Damian so unfortunately it means Bruce isn't getting through to his son. This is where the industry hurts character development. Damien would be in a much better place if DC wasn't committed to keeping him Robin while also having no idea what to do with him.

[Alpha]

I can't separate the context that Robin was created to be marketed for kids in a more simplistic fictional world and the later reinterpretation of Batman world to be more realistic while also keeping the kid appeal character alive for corporate branding and merchandising.

So I have to discount any argument that say Batman is endangering a kid by making him fight criminals. We're way pass that and there's no point arguing that. The more they/we try to keep things realistic, by danger or death, while also having to follow company branding, and we have to, because it's mandated, the sillier it sounds. So there's no point.

Taking Dick and teaching him to be a child soldier - discounted
Accepting Tim who is not his son to follow up after Jason's death - discounted
Neglecting Damian after going to hell and back to revive him after death - HEAVILY DISCOUNTED. That doesn't even make sense in narrative. Heck all of those doesn't make sense, that's why they're discounted.

I mean, why give that a free pass and not all other stories? It's all for the sake of entertainment. I think it's just as justifiable or condenable as many of the other complaints about what these characters do. Someone here complainee about Clark letting Jor-el take Jon. Again, why would this be less justifiable than the whole Robin thing?

[Nite-Wing]

Bruce is the worst father in DC and it's not even close
Even someone like deathstroke has to struggle to reach the levels of inept parenting Bruce has hit

He takes these kids off the street after trauma and on its face it looks nice but then when you stop looking at it with the highly subjective "its comics" lens then you have to admit he is creating child soldiers who do what he as an adult can choose to do and giving them a choice that shouldn't be made by a child or teen.

Dick has turned out okay but that's his personality shining through more than anything. Dick's biggest issue are his feelings of jealousy and inadequacy compared to Bruce. If Bruce was a good father Dick wouldn't have these hang ups

Jason is a street kid and likely would have wound up a criminal without Bruce. Now he more or less has become an even more dangerous criminal perfect example of Bruce leading these kids to death and setting them on an even worse path.

Tim is funny because while he is smart he believes Batman who has had two partners by now needs another partner to temper his issues. This doesn't work out and Tim begins to distance himself from Bruce as well

Damian is a monster. Not much Bruce could do to salvage the damage already done to his son by his mother but the distance he's created is all the more problematic

Cass is a worse off now too

Clark could do nothing with Jon and let Lois raise him by herself and he'd be an infinitely better than Bruce has ever been as a Father/mentor

Literally every single Robin Bruce has had has been killed. He is not a good parent or guardian what he has these kids/teens doing is not what a good parent would do

[Restingvoice]

I mean, why give that a free pass and not all other stories? It's all for the sake of entertainment. I think it's just as justifiable or condenable as many of the other complaints about what these characters do. Someone here complainee about Clark letting Jor-el take Jon. Again, why would this be less justifiable than the whole Robin thing?

Coz it's mandated by outside influence instead of purely authorial intent, or in the case of Jor-El and Clark, because the next writer is ignoring what the previous writer established (Jor-El was supposed to taken off the board by Dr. Manhattan and he already met Jon before and Clark if I remember correctly already rejected him).

If they're all one writer, and there's no outside influence, or if they manage to seamlessly incorporate that outside influence in a way that is make sense to the character, if they manage to keep the character consistent despite outside influence, or if there's two writers who manage to keep the portrayal consistent between them, then I won't discount it.

That means that my answer will be mostly based on a specific writer or one specific continuity instead of all-encompassing, after accepting certain corporate superhero comic conventions, like kid superhero. I refuse to slam all of them as one character, because just from one writer to the next there can be different interpretation. Maybe we can average it... maybe.

[Alpha]

Coz it's mandated by outside influence instead of purely authorial intent, or in the case of Jor-El and Clark, because the next writer is ignoring what the previous writer established (Jor-El was supposed to taken off the board by Dr. Manhattan and he already met Jon before and Clark if I remember correctly already rejected him).

If they're all one writer, and there's no outside influence, or if they manage to seamlessly incorporate that outside influence in a way that is make sense to the character, if they manage to keep the character consistent despite outside influence, or if there's two writers who manage to keep the portrayal consistent between them, then I won't discount it.

That means that my answer will be mostly based on a specific writer or one specific continuity instead of all-encompassing, after accepting certain corporate superhero comic conventions, like kid superhero. I refuse to slam all of them as one character, because just from one writer to the next there can be different interpretation. Maybe we can average it... maybe.

But we're not criticizing the authors here, we're criticizing the characters.

[Aramis]

Bruce is the worst father in DC and it's not even close

Second worst. The title of worst father goes to Lobo lol

But, you know, you are right, even Trigon, Darkseid and Ra's have their redeeming parenting qualities over Bruce haha

[Ascended]

Thoughts? They both have biological sons and you could argue they have adoptive children as well.

I thought about making this a poll, but I'm more interested in people's opinions and reasonings than taking a tally.

Generally speaking?

No. Not really.

Bruce was a semi good father, at one point. Way back in the day he was, more or less, supportive and loving towards Dick and provided a good role model (by comic book standards). They had their problems and their arguments but if you set aside the fact that Bruce let Dick run around in those short shorts getting shot at by psychopaths (and in winter! Put on a coat!) I don't think Bruce failed as a father more than most of us do.

Then Jason came along and Bruce (retcons withstanding) struggled to connect with the kid and aim Jason's aggression in positive directions. And when Jason died, so too did Bruce the suitable father.

Since then he's been a pretty crappy friend and father. Even setting aside the moments where he's hit the various Robins and sidekicks, he pushes them away when he struggles, doesn't reach out when they're struggling, and for quite a while treated them almost more like disposable soldiers in a war than young people in need of a home.

Bruce is a guy who needs to be surrounded by family and has built quite a large one for himself, but deep down doesn't feel like he should have family and hence, he ends up treated them badly, is borderline abusive (and I'm being generous here), and pushes them away without ever actually letting them go.

Then there's Clark, who at first glance seems like he'd naturally gravitate to fatherhood, but when you actually look at his actions it turns out he's even more lost and confused by the position than Bruce is.

Clark's history of being bad with family goes way, way back. He failed Mon-El (admittedly failing to cure lead poisoning isn't totally his fault but when was the last time we saw him try?), he sent the OG Kara to a foster home and forced her to remain a secret for quite some time. In the modern era, he did basically the same thing to Matrix-Supergirl and allowed Conner to be handled by a sleazy talent agent despite the Kid's obvious need for guidance. When Matrix-Supergirl fused with a normal, mortal woman Clark barely noticed despite the obvious trauma she/they went through. When Kryptonian Kara returned, Clark once again shipped her off, letting her be Themyscria's problem. And I feel like there's other examples I'm forgetting.

Clark will let anyone raise the young people who should be his responsibility before Clark himself will lift a hand; random foster parents, the Kents (who have already done their time as parents and shouldn't be forced to deal with another hormonal super teen), random strangers interested only in cashing in on the "S" brand. The only time he really took any real interest in Matrix-Supergirl was when she started dating his arch-nemesis. And he's rarely treated Power Girl, his cousin from another universe, as anything more than a friendly acquaintance he talks to at office parties.

With Jon, Clark's a much better parent but I don't know if I'd say he's a "good" one. He did, after all, allow his inexperienced, naïve ten year old son to adventure across time and space with a little killer who had a history of attempting to murder his "brothers" and was raised by the League of Assassins. If we apply the "real life cranked up to 11" argument, then Jon's adventures with Damian are no different than when we were kids and would ride our bikes with the local "bad kid" all around town without any supervision. And today, that'll get DHS called on you and your kids will be taken away. The stuff with Jor-El, using the "cranked up to 11" argument, is just Clark letting Jon spend a summer with an aged grandparent who's getting a little senile, and they end up in a car accident. But even through this lens, Clark let his kid ride with a guy who should've had the car keys taken away from him. It's not "horrible" parenting, but it's not "good" either.

Clark's a guy who, from the very start, understood that he was a singular being. He never had blood family and had no real hopes of ever getting one. We daydream about getting super powers but know it'll never actually happen. Clark daydreamed about having blood family, knowing that was just as impossible. He doesn't revel in his uniqueness but it's a big part of his worldview; the Last Son of Krypton. So when a blood relative/child *does* show up, it rocks his world to the core and leaves him unsure of himself or how to handle it.

[Anthony Shaw]

IMO:

Post crisis Bruce is a terrible father.

As others have mentioned, Dick & Tim brought stability to Bruce. That should not be the case with parent/child relationships.

Special consideration should to Alfred for helping out as much he could. Bless his heart.

Also special consideration should go to Dick for helping out with Tim, and Damian. After Bruce returned, Damian should have stayed with Dick.


I want to say: Oliver Queen sucks at being a parental figure, too.

I will give Hal Jordan points for being a great uncle, even in the afterlife, lol.

[Celgress]

OP Question -

No, they are not, IMO. And I am a huge fan of both characters but I admit neither will win father of the year any time soon.

[Agent Z]

Generally speaking?

No. Not really.

Bruce was a semi good father, at one point. Way back in the day he was, more or less, supportive and loving towards Dick and provided a good role model (by comic book standards). They had their problems and their arguments but if you set aside the fact that Bruce let Dick run around in those short shorts getting shot at by psychopaths (and in winter! Put on a coat!) I don't think Bruce failed as a father more than most of us do.

Then Jason came along and Bruce (retcons withstanding) struggled to connect with the kid and aim Jason's aggression in positive directions. And when Jason died, so too did Bruce the suitable father.

Since then he's been a pretty crappy friend and father. Even setting aside the moments where he's hit the various Robins and sidekicks, he pushes them away when he struggles, doesn't reach out when they're struggling, and for quite a while treated them almost more like disposable soldiers in a war than young people in need of a home.

Bruce is a guy who needs to be surrounded by family and has built quite a large one for himself, but deep down doesn't feel like he should have family and hence, he ends up treated them badly, is borderline abusive (and I'm being generous here), and pushes them away without ever actually letting them go.

Then there's Clark, who at first glance seems like he'd naturally gravitate to fatherhood, but when you actually look at his actions it turns out he's even more lost and confused by the position than Bruce is.

Clark's history of being bad with family goes way, way back. He failed Mon-El (admittedly failing to cure lead poisoning isn't totally his fault but when was the last time we saw him try?), he sent the OG Kara to a foster home and forced her to remain a secret for quite some time. In the modern era, he did basically the same thing to Matrix-Supergirl and allowed Conner to be handled by a sleazy talent agent despite the Kid's obvious need for guidance. When Matrix-Supergirl fused with a normal, mortal woman Clark barely noticed despite the obvious trauma she/they went through. When Kryptonian Kara returned, Clark once again shipped her off, letting her be Themyscria's problem. And I feel like there's other examples I'm forgetting.

Clark will let anyone raise the young people who should be his responsibility before Clark himself will lift a hand; random foster parents, the Kents (who have already done their time as parents and shouldn't be forced to deal with another hormonal super teen), random strangers interested only in cashing in on the "S" brand. The only time he really took any real interest in Matrix-Supergirl was when she started dating his arch-nemesis. And he's rarely treated Power Girl, his cousin from another universe, as anything more than a friendly acquaintance he talks to at office parties.

With Jon, Clark's a much better parent but I don't know if I'd say he's a "good" one. He did, after all, allow his inexperienced, naïve ten year old son to adventure across time and space with a little killer who had a history of attempting to murder his "brothers" and was raised by the League of Assassins. If we apply the "real life cranked up to 11" argument, then Jon's adventures with Damian are no different than when we were kids and would ride our bikes with the local "bad kid" all around town without any supervision. And today, that'll get DHS called on you and your kids will be taken away. The stuff with Jor-El, using the "cranked up to 11" argument, is just Clark letting Jon spend a summer with an aged grandparent who's getting a little senile, and they end up in a car accident. But even through this lens, Clark let his kid ride with a guy who should've had the car keys taken away from him. It's not "horrible" parenting, but it's not "good" either.

Clark's a guy who, from the very start, understood that he was a singular being. He never had blood family and had no real hopes of ever getting one. We daydream about getting super powers but know it'll never actually happen. Clark daydreamed about having blood family, knowing that was just as impossible. He doesn't revel in his uniqueness but it's a big part of his worldview; the Last Son of Krypton. So when a blood relative/child *does* show up, it rocks his world to the core and leaves him unsure of himself or how to handle it.

Some of the people Clark allowed to be raised by others weren't under Clark's responsibility to begin with. Kon originally wasn't a Clark clone and Matrix wasn't his cousin. Clark also lives on a reporter's salary and doesn't have a loyal manservant to help raise a child.

[king81992]

Bruce is the worst father in DC and it's not even close
Even someone like deathstroke has to struggle to reach the levels of inept parenting Bruce has hit

He takes these kids off the street after trauma and on its face it looks nice but then when you stop looking at it with the highly subjective "its comics" lens then you have to admit he is creating child soldiers who do what he as an adult can choose to do and giving them a choice that shouldn't be made by a child or teen.

Dick has turned out okay but that's his personality shining through more than anything. Dick's biggest issue are his feelings of jealousy and inadequacy compared to Bruce. If Bruce was a good father Dick wouldn't have these hang ups

Jason is a street kid and likely would have wound up a criminal without Bruce. Now he more or less has become an even more dangerous criminal perfect example of Bruce leading these kids to death and setting them on an even worse path.

Tim is funny because while he is smart he believes Batman who has had two partners by now needs another partner to temper his issues. This doesn't work out and Tim begins to distance himself from Bruce as well

Damian is a monster. Not much Bruce could do to salvage the damage already done to his son by his mother but the distance he's created is all the more problematic

Cass is a worse off now too

Clark could do nothing with Jon and let Lois raise him by herself and he'd be an infinitely better than Bruce has ever been as a Father/mentor

Literally every single Robin Bruce has had has been killed. He is not a good parent or guardian what he has these kids/teens doing is not what a good parent would do

Bruce is a bad father, but he's not Deathstroke levels of terrible. Despite being a broken, bitter and unpleasant person to be around a lot of the time, Bruce does care about the Bat Family. Deathstrokes doesn't care about his family or anyone else, he just pretends to(its gotten to a point where Slade himself has bought into the lie, while making sure to manipulate and gaslight them into being pawns or sacrifices when it suits his agenda).

[prepmaster]

By real life standards, Batman is a terrible father. What kind of father would allow their young children to fight crime? lol

[Alpha]

I wonder if the fact that Joe Chill killed Bruce's parents but not him could be the reason why Bruce doesn't actually take Robins fighting crime that seriously. As if he unconsciously feels like thugs wouldn't hurt a child.

[Ascended]

Some of the people Clark allowed to be raised by others weren't under Clark's responsibility to begin with. Kon originally wasn't a Clark clone and Matrix wasn't his cousin. Clark also lives on a reporter's salary and doesn't have a loyal manservant to help raise a child.

They wear the "S" and aren't old enough to vote, they're his responsibility. Assuming they don't already have legal guardians like Nat Irons, obviously.

And a lot of us raise kids on less than a journalist's salary.

[The Darknight Detective]

But we're not criticizing the authors here, we're criticizing the characters.

... who are written the way they are by the authors.