Keeping track of X-books sales

[Rang10]

no they did not that is a blatant lie

gold blue AND weapon X were the ONLY titles after ressurexion to cross the 20 issue mark, genx/astonishing/xforce/x-men red/ iceman /Cable Allllllllll failed the 20 issue mark, Generation X in that era was canceled barely hitting 12 issues, jean grey issue 11 too, cable on 5 issues

IN bendis era watxm AND x-men vol 4 and that was for a bit considered "sorta" flagship (battle of the atom lasted for TWO MONTHS SAME AS XOS btw) and spurriers legacy wich was carried by god knows what(it was amazing so it deserved it)
Amazing x-men, all new x factor, all 3 x forces, wolverines, astonishing by liu also ended around that time, can i go on?

your statement is factually wrong these two eras aren't comparable to this one in general title sucess.

AND battle of the atom, black vortex, both x-forces crossing over, the mojo crossover in 2017, ETC there was massive crossovers back then as well, especialy since in the bendis era the 4 "flagships" (allnew, uncanny, Watxm and woodx-men) all stared the same A list characters, amazing x-men went on to do the same, to a point wolverine was a "main character" in 5 teams at the same time!

you're prespective is clouded by bias beacause what you said is blantantly wrong.

Amazing x-men, all new x factor, all 3 x forces, wolverines, astonishing by liu also ended around that time, can i go on?

None of these books were part of bendis run, Bendis was just his books. The books were so connected like now, Astonishing was still same run that started with Whedon. Amazing x-men wasnt cancelled by sales. All new x-factor did almost 20 issues, it did 19.

Solo books weren't expected to do more then 12 issues, i don't count them at all. A lot of books were canceled because of relaunches ike astonishing x-men (rosenberg), extraordinary, both last uncanny runs

All new wolverine and Old man logan also did more than 12 issues, Laura solo did 3 issues and old man logan did +4 + 12 issues maxi series.

"AND battle of the atom, black vortex, both x-forces crossing over, the mojo crossover in 2017, "

they aren't massives crossover like X of swords, they were like 2-3 max crossing over.

I think different eras are hard to compare, specially that Hickman is so connected and stated with a fresh relaunch of the whole line.
But ocomparations can be made weighting pros and cons

If they launch at 80,000 to 100,000.

Why would it be unrealistic to think that they'd bottom out at least 60,000? Especially since it was a Hickman relaunch.

Yeah it can be done. Maybe a 50k could be more realistic

[Ferro]

Amazing x-men, all new x factor, all 3 x forces, wolverines, astonishing by liu also ended around that time, can i go on?

None of these books were part of bendis run, Bendis was just his books. The books were so connected like now, Astonishing was still same run that started with Whedon. Amazing x-men wasnt cancelled by sales. All new x-factor did almost 20 issues, it did 19.

Solo books weren't expected to do more then 12 issues, i don't count them at all. A lot of books were canceled because of relaunches ike astonishing x-men (rosenberg), extraordinary, both last uncanny runs

All new wolverine and Old man logan also did more than 12 issues, Laura solo did 3 issues and old man logan did +4 + 12 issues maxi series.

"AND battle of the atom, black vortex, both x-forces crossing over, the mojo crossover in 2017, "

they aren't massives crossover like X of swords, they were like 2-3 max crossing over.

I think different eras are hard to compare, specially that Hickman is so connected and stated with a fresh relaunch of the whole line.
But ocomparations can be made weighting pros and cons



Yeah it can be done. Maybe a 50k could be more realistic

If hickman was writing two books it be the same then? we were clearly discussing the entire lines centered around a falgship, moving the goal-posts isnt cute.
Battle of the atom literaly had every book tie in JUST LIKE XOS, it had an enourmous checklist.

[Rang10]

If hickman was writing two books it be the same then? we were clearly discussing the entire lines centered around a falgship, moving the goal-posts isnt cute.
Battle of the atom literaly had every book tie in JUST LIKE XOS, it had an enourmous checklist.

Hickman writing two xbooks makes no difference, as the line is all connected now and n the past it sin't.

Battle of the ato only crossover x-men and Wolverine and the x-men beyond the Bendis books, So it ws only 4 books instead of the whole line

[LordUltimus]

Personally I don't care about sales of a comic because that is not a good metric of quality. I only read what I like and keep it moving.

Yes, but sales are what ultimately keep books going. While I think it's safe to say a book like X-Men or Wolverine will keep going no matter what, books like Marauders and Excalibur are another matter entirely. And keeping track of those sales would help indicate whether a book might be dropped or replaced or whatever.

[Killerbee911]

If hickman was writing two books it be the same then?

When Hickman was writing New Mutants it was top 10 to 15 book, Yes it is small sample size but most people was surprised that it was performing better than X-force, Excalibur or Marauders book that bigger X-men names. I believe we can also pull New Avengers/Avengers numbers that show that both books were doing good as well when Hickman was the writer. It is not a stretch to assume that Uncanny X-men book written by Hickman would be in top 10 as well right now. It is assumption but I don't see flaw in the logic about that part.

[Ferro]

When Hickman was writing New Mutants it was top 10 to 15 book, Yes it is small sample size but most people was surprised that it was performing better than X-force, Excalibur or Marauders book that bigger X-men names. I believe we can also pull New Avengers/Avengers numbers that show that both books were doing good as well when Hickman was the writer. It is not a stretch to assume that Uncanny X-men book written by Hickman would be in top 10 as well right now. It is assumption but I don't see flaw in the logic about that part.

no it's correct I agree, what i meant was if the comparisons of the x lines are based on "books per main writer" then we aren't discussing the whole line and the health of satelite titles, wich was my ORIGINAL POINT that was refuted with glaring misimformation, because like you said flagship writers with "x-men" on it's name will always sell well but it isnt relevant for the discussion of satelite titles.

Because if hickman had two titles the whole line would STILL be more sucessfull than the bendis one and the gold/blue one

[Rang10]

When Hickman was writing New Mutants it was top 10 to 15 book, Yes it is small sample size but most people was surprised that it was performing better than X-force, Excalibur or Marauders book that bigger X-men names. I believe we can also pull New Avengers/Avengers numbers that show that both books were doing good as well when Hickman was the writer. It is not a stretch to assume that Uncanny X-men book written by Hickman would be in top 10 as well right now. It is assumption but I don't see flaw in the logic about that part.

I saw the charts, only the first two issues of new mutants performed better, first one was the most sold comics. The rest was almost the same sales or just a few thousand copies better than x-force, Marauders
Avengers were doing 40-50k for most of their runs

[Jackraow21]

X-Force Beats Dark Detective To Top Bleeding Cool Bestseller List

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/x-fo...stseller-list/

[Dante Milton]

Personally I don't care about sales of a comic because that is not a good metric of quality. I only read what I like and keep it moving.

Absolutely this. I don't care how many issues of a book a comic shop orders, that has no bearing on whether or not I enjoy a comic. I always find it weird when people who aren't enjoying a book point to the sales in an attempt to prove that their dislike of it is the correct opinion. Like, do y'all think I'm going to find out a comic I like has low sales and then start hating it along with you?

[Spit and Syntax]

no it's correct I agree, what i meant was if the comparisons of the x lines are based on "books per main writer" then we aren't discussing the whole line and the health of satelite titles, wich was my ORIGINAL POINT that was refuted with glaring misimformation, because like you said flagship writers with "x-men" on it's name will always sell well but it isnt relevant for the discussion of satelite titles.

Because if hickman had two titles the whole line would STILL be more sucessfull than the bendis one and the gold/blue one

I created an account to back you up on this. I think the YouTube was a little misleading on a couple of things which portray a far more negative light on DoX. There seems to be a lot of reactionary Youtubers that are negatively turning on DoX for what seems to me quite misogynistic reasons (not saying this guy in the video is), so I think it’s right to raise a couple of points.

First, it is Marvel and Hickman’s intention to create an interconnected line. If all fringe X-books have a percentage boost because of Krakoa, then the overall sales will be more of a success. The video itself is not comparing Marauders to, say, Peter David’s X-Factor, Carey’s X-Men Legacy or even Duggan’s Magneto, but saying that the fringe books aren’t “even selling at Fraction’s levels”. Further, the video would have been more successful in comparing, for example Krakoa and non-Krakoa Tini Howard books, or Leah William books for example and assessing whether this line has boosted their sales rate (Strikeforce vs. Excalibur for example) - doing this kind of analysis would have given us a better idea of the line’s health.

Marvel aren’t idiots. They know that if one of these DoX becomes a hit and has a long lasting run in trades (like I imagine Immortal Hulk will be in the future, and I assume Gillen’s Young Avengers still performs well in), then it’s bleed into other titles will keep other Krakoa titles alive and healthy in trade. Launching so many different titles in this nascent line is essentially a perfect opportunity to gamble on writers and concepts for this exact reason. Additionally, if most of these series fail to become evergreen, and Hickman’s sole work becomes a Morrison JLA-like evergreen trade series, then trade sales of other DoX titles will be strong years into the future.

When we’re looking at sales, corporations want to know if they can maximise potential sales far into the future. For now, this line looks healthy, and even if it’s not hitting Morrison levels, there are simply more titles over-performing. The only surviving New X-Men era titles that have a life in trade these days is Morrison’s flagship, and Milligan’s X-Statix. This line has potential for a lot more strong titles to live on.

[Rang10]

I created an account to back you up on this. I think the YouTube was a little misleading on a couple of things which portray a far more negative light on DoX. There seems to be a lot of reactionary Youtubers that are negatively turning on DoX for what seems to me quite misogynistic reasons (not saying this guy in the video is), so I think it’s right to raise a couple of points.

First, it is Marvel and Hickman’s intention to create an interconnected line. If all fringe X-books have a percentage boost because of Krakoa, then the overall sales will be more of a success. The video itself is not comparing Marauders to, say, Peter David’s X-Factor, Carey’s X-Men Legacy or even Duggan’s Magneto, but saying that the fringe books aren’t “even selling at Fraction’s levels”. Further, the video would have been more successful in comparing, for example Krakoa and non-Krakoa Tini Howard books, or Leah William books for example and assessing whether this line has boosted their sales rate (Strikeforce vs. Excalibur for example) - doing this kind of analysis would have given us a better idea of the line’s health.

Marvel aren’t idiots. They know that if one of these DoX becomes a hit and has a long lasting run in trades (like I imagine Immortal Hulk will be in the future, and I assume Gillen’s Young Avengers still performs well in), then it’s bleed into other titles will keep other Krakoa titles alive and healthy in trade. Launching so many different titles in this nascent line is essentially a perfect opportunity to gamble on writers and concepts for this exact reason. Additionally, if most of these series fail to become evergreen, and Hickman’s sole work becomes a Morrison JLA-like evergreen trade series, then trade sales of other DoX titles will be strong years into the future.

When we’re looking at sales, corporations want to know if they can maximise potential sales far into the future. For now, this line looks healthy, and even if it’s not hitting Morrison levels, there are simply more titles over-performing. The only surviving New X-Men era titles that have a life in trade these days is Morrison’s flagship, and Milligan’s X-Statix. This line has potential for a lot more strong titles to live on.

I know him, when he does sales analysis he is impartial, he let the numbers talk. He even did one of Jane Thor that he proved that she sold as good as Thor Odinson's thor. And defended squirrel girl trade sales too.

The boost isnt forever, the guy from the video has the most recent numbers but he can't talk before Diamond releasing them. They are paying a lot to Hickman being head of X, so profitability isn't that high.

Immortal Hulk performs very well for a Hulk book, It's been sometime since a hulk book performed on 40k-50k level. Gillen YA Avengers? Doesn't look like doing well on trades.
What do really well on trades are Claremont/Byrne x-men/Wolverine, Age of Apocalypse, Inferno. I'm not surprised that Marvel is doing the Legends book.
It's a long shot to know if they will do well on trades on the future, most perform really good while still on publication. That is not the case with Hickman era.

What matters more is the here in now, future is very open. Specially with a market with few readers, too many products and not much money to invest.

[Spit and Syntax]

I know him, when he does sales analysis he is impartial, he let the numbers talk. He even did one of Jane Thor that he proved that she sold as good as Thor Odinson's thor. And defended squirrel girl trade sales too.

The boost isnt forever, the guy from the video has the most recent numbers but he can't talk before Diamond releasing them. They are paying a lot to Hickman being head of X, so profitability isn't that high.

Immortal Hulk performs very well for a Hulk book, It's been sometime since a hulk book performed on 40k-50k level. Gillen YA Avengers? Doesn't look like doing well on trades.
What do really well on trades are Claremont/Byrne x-men/Wolverine, Age of Apocalypse, Inferno. I'm not surprised that Marvel is doing the Legends book.
It's a long shot to know if they will do well on trades on the future, most perform really good while still on publication. That is not the case with Hickman era.

What matters more is the here in now, future is very open. Specially with a market with few readers, too many products and not much money to invest.

Right, so what I mean from this is that the fringe books aren’t being compared to fringe titles of past era, or non X books by the same writers. If we can see that Krakoa provides no extra readership to C-list writers like Howard, Williams, Ayala, then I would say that flogging X-Men titles would not be healthy. But, if C-list writers are getting 10% more readers by association with Hickman’s line, then spreading that 10% over 7 titles is a success. These writers are on Marvel’s books, so if they can boost the sales on their page-rate by say 10%, then that is good business and a positive line.

I do give you credit that the YouTuber is pretty unbiased. What I’m saying is it’s a bit of a flawed analysis to compare a book like Merauders (a book with no name recognition) to Fraction’s flagship X-book. If they are selling the same, that’s pretty impressive. Do we really expect a Howard, Williams, Duggan fringe book to be selling 50k every month. Like I said, compare this to Strikeforce or Savage Avengers and we’ll see if it beats the writer’s normal projections.

My comment on trades was because Marvel don’t necessarily have many evergreen series that pull in general readers, and by extension are consumed by regular consumers who just want one story. DC have far more series that are consumed in this way than Marvel (anything by Vertigo has sold far more in trade than ever in singles), and I assume Marvel are trying to foster more of these as I’m sure this is why they brought Gillen in to do Eternals. The boost of this line, and the increase in readership of C/B-list writers clearly shows that Marvel are throwing a lot of ideas at the wall with DoX and seeing if anything sticks. It’s too early to see whether any will gain recognition, but it shows a healthy line that there seems to be a lot of creative freedom that satellites around Hickman’s narrative. At least for now, this line gives us spaces for people like Si Spurrior, coming off the best written book of 2020 and Ewing a pretty exciting canvas to write his sci-fi. For that, I’m pretty happy so I’m hoping it continues for now.

[JB]

Great discussion, friends. Lots to chew on and I appreciate it.