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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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    Default Has Superman ever been written with the Spider-man formula?

    Here's what I mean--

    When people say Superman is being written like Batman, they usually mean that Superman stories are borrowing elements from Batman stories. For example, having General Lane give Superman information in the same way that Commissioner Gordon does for Batman.



    Basically, there are story-telling mechanics that make you think, "This is a Batman story" or "This is a Superman story," even if the leads at Barbara and Kara, rather than Bruce and Clark.

    We've seen the Spider-man formula applied to other Spider-characters, most notably Spider-Gwen and Miles Morales, but has it ever been used on Superman?

    I may be able to think of Superman elements being used on Spider-man but not the reverse. Those examples could include, Spider-man partnering with Horizon labs like how Clark partnered with STAR labs on STAS, or Spider-man being associated with American iconography in Spider-man 3.




  2. #2
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    The closest comparison I can think of is the John Bryne revamp of the mythos which put more emphasis on Clark's civilian life alongside his Superhero identity (and made Lois a redhead), and to some degree the New 52 revamp where he was younger, single, and more confrontational with authority figures.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I feel like this would be a better ask on the Superman forum but:

    Superman: Earth One - Clark’s first instinct is to use his powers to get rich, he’s moody, selfish, and has to basically be dragged into being a hero, and he’s definitely flawed. This is the most direct “what if Superman had Spider-Man’s origin?”

    Invincible - It’s someone with the personality of a Spider-Man character having Superman powers. It’s not a 1-to-1 since there’s also a lot of other stuff in the mix but it’s there.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Since Spider-Man arrived in AF#15, both Batman and Superman comics, and for that matter many other comics have borrowed ideas and concepts from his comics and other Marvel comics in both Batman and Superman.

    In terms of specific examples and borrowing,
    -- Batman Beyond was based on Spider-Man in a lot of key respects, down to costume and the character of Terry McGinnis.
    -- The Nolan Batman movies was based on Raimi's Spider-Man movies in a lot of key respects, certainly marketing.

    In the case of Superman,
    -- Well Lana Lang in STAS is basically Mary Jane Watson, down to having a Parallel Lives bit of intuition.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B37qHCNOaDE

    -- And certainly the entire concept of Lois knowing Superman's identity as part of an ongoing serial status-quo and later marrying Clark was essentially following on from stuff that happened in ASM where MJ became Peter's confidant from ASM#259 onwards and never looked back.

    -- However the case of General Sam Lane is actually a borrowing from Incredible Hulk I'd argue. Especially the more recent version where he wants to hunt down Superman and so on, that's basically the dynamic between Ross/Betty/Hulk transplated to Superman.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    Jimmy Olsen is pretty much Peter Parker in the DC comics. They're kind of similar in their struggles, personality and whatnot.

  6. #6
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    Jimmy Olsen is pretty much Peter Parker in the DC comics. They're kind of similar in their struggles, personality and whatnot.
    And thanks to Heroes Reborn, the 2021 version, Peter is gonna be Marvel's Jimmy Olsen. That said, I do see your point, that Peter is (almost) a version of Jimmy who serves as the main hero/protagonist of the story instead of a member of the supporting cast or a would-be sidekick to the main hero/protagonist.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #7
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    Jimmy Olsen is pretty much Peter Parker in the DC comics. They're kind of similar in their struggles, personality and whatnot.
    Although Peter's never crossdressed or turned into a turtle.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    I feel like Smallville is the closest you're ever going to get in that regard.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  9. #9
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Although Peter's never crossdressed or turned into a turtle.
    Jimmy has led a surprisingly wild life, although Peter did cross-dress once . . . as a geisha in Avengers: Millennium. It was a disguise that Black Widow shoved him into when investigating a stray time platform resulted in the Avengers being booted into World War II Japan. She even told him he had to move his hips more to really sell the disguise.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    Jimmy Olsen is pretty much Peter Parker in the DC comics.
    Only in the minds of a very limited and reductionist set of DC fans.

    They're kind of similar in their struggles, personality and whatnot.
    Peter Parker dated the secretary in the office, often fought and talked back to JJJ and in the original Ditko run, negotiated a pay rise after the MP-Saga.

    Whereas Jimmy Olsen is eternally a boyish sidekick trailing Clark and Lois.

    They aren't remotely the same.

  11. #11
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Only in the minds of a very limited and reductionist set of DC fans.



    Peter Parker dated the secretary in the office, often fought and talked back to JJJ and in the original Ditko run, negotiated a pay rise after the MP-Saga.

    Whereas Jimmy Olsen is eternally a boyish sidekick trailing Clark and Lois.

    They aren't remotely the same.
    Come to think of it, that's kind of like Batman and Iron Man, who come from fundamentally different personal backgrounds and have fundamentally different personalities and methods, to say nothing of their relationships with their heroic allies and supporting castmates, but they get compared because they're both "nonpowered billionaire superheroes."
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  12. #12
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Only in the minds of a very limited and reductionist set of DC fans.



    Peter Parker dated the secretary in the office, often fought and talked back to JJJ and in the original Ditko run, negotiated a pay rise after the MP-Saga.

    Whereas Jimmy Olsen is eternally a boyish sidekick trailing Clark and Lois.

    They aren't remotely the same.
    Jimmy has a lot of weird stuff happen to him .

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Jimmy has a lot of weird stuff happen to him .
    Peter happens to do some of the weird stuff to other people, and is an active figure with agency whereas Jimmy just stumbles onto messes and buttdials Apokolips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Come to think of it, that's kind of like Batman and Iron Man, who come from fundamentally different personal backgrounds and have fundamentally different personalities and methods, to say nothing of their relationships with their heroic allies and supporting castmates, but they get compared because they're both "nonpowered billionaire superheroes."
    The Jimmy Olsen comparison is fielded by writers/fans who have a "Peter should be a kid" agenda so it's always a dog whistle for that.

  14. #14
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Peter happens to do some of the weird stuff to other people, and is an active figure with agency whereas Jimmy just stumbles onto messes and buttdials Apokolips.



    The Jimmy Olsen comparison is fielded by writers/fans who have a "Peter should be a kid" agenda so it's always a dog whistle for that.
    Actually a very good point, and considering Jason Aaron with Heroes Reborn (2021 version) is saying that if the Avengers didn't exist, Peter Parker would be Marvel's equivalent of Jimmy Olsen, never mind that Peter's debut as Spider-Man came two years before Marvel first put together the Avengers . . .
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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    I think Spider-man stories go beyond his youth and include things like soap opera relationships with villains, humor, failures in one's personal life due to being a hero, etc.

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