Anyone else miss the days when a zillion people didn't know Bruce Wayne was Bats

[babyblob]

Hmmm... I don't think the Teen Titans of the 70's knew. I assume the members of the JLA back then knew and I recall a story where batman had a heart attack or something and Superman had to use his superspeed to put an oxygen mask on him and get him to Alfred for treatment.

My mistake is was 1969. There was a Brave and the Bold issue 83 when Bruce Wayne takes in a family friends son named Lance. Lance is wild and Bruce asks Robin to have the Teen Titians hang with Lance and help him calm down and go straight. Lance dies and at the funeral Bruce is pout of costume with a couple of the Titians and thanks them for their help in the case. I am just guessing the Titians knew since Bruce was thanking them for help on a case.

[Restingvoice]

Didn't Raptor kill them...?

Raptor sold their identity info to Kobra. Then they killed them.

Only one group was shown killed on page, then Dick went after Raptor. I don't remember what happened after. Since there are many members all over the world I assume it's a race between Kobra and Spyral who get to the rest first.

[Tzigone]

Seems like in the old days everyone knew who he was as well.

Like in the 70s comics I have read. I know Robin and Alfred of course knew. But so did Superman, The Teen Titans, Pretty sure there was a story where Hal Jordan and Flash made reference to it, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter both knew, Metal Men suspected, Spectre knew but he is magical and such so that makes since, Earth Two JSA knew that Earth One Batman was Bruce but that was because Earth Two batman was Bruce, So I cant really think of a time when the man whose secret identity is the most important thing to him didnt have a hundred people who knew.

I agree. Definitely other JLAers knew in the early 1970s (there was an issue that had a flashback story of them all sharing identities with each other). Of course, I'm unsure if it was limited to only the ones who were members at that time. Various Teen Titans end up knowing through the years because they know Dick is/was Robin, and it's an easy deduction from there. Barbara figured it out in the mid-70s.

I would like for Batman's enemies not to know.

The Bwahahahaha!! era Justice League is interesting. Except for Martian Manhunter I don't think anyone else knew, there was a scene where some members including Bats had to go in civilian disguise and Bats went as Bruce Wayne and Fire was all ZOMG YOU'RE SO HAWT!!! AND SEXY!!! and "Bruce" assured her that under his 'disguise' of Bruce Wayne Bats was truly hideous.

Yeah, that's the post-COIE setup, where they aren't friends so much or as trusting to each other (the traditional League, I mean, not JLI, though of course Batman was on both at times). Here's where Batman and Superman reveal they know each other's identities, for those who like that sort of thing.

[Multiverse]

I would like for Batman's enemies not to know.

The only Batman Rogues that deserve to know (in my opinion) are Hugo Strange, Bane, Hush, Two-Face, Ra's and Talia Al Ghul.

Joker I'd rather keep ambiguous over wherever he knows or not.

[babyblob]

The only Batman Rogues that deserve to know (in my opinion) are Hugo Strange, Bane, Hush, Two-Face, Ra's and Talia Al Ghul.

Joker I'd rather keep ambiguous over wherever he knows or not.

I think Riddler would know. if he is as smart as they try and claim he would have figured out the ultimate riddle by now. I think I remember he knew for a bit but dont know if the Recon thaet.

[Blue22]

I'm cool with the extended Batfamily. As for his secret identity....I'm kinda of two minds in regards to that. I'm mostly okay with him having a bunch of allies who know like the League, the family, and Gordon (because there's no way in hell that Gordon doesn't know). What I don't really like is the number of villains who are aware of who he is. Hush, Bane (and I assume almost everyone involved in his plot during King's Run), Joker, Punchline, Ra's, Poison Ivy, Harley (granted, the latter two aren't really enemies anymore). It's like how the Power Rangers have secret IDs even though the people they'd wanna hide from the most already know who they are and where they live lol

Then again, despite being so secretive, Bruce doesn't do the greatest of jobs when it comes to hiding who he is (though a lot of that also comes down to his family). He's just lucky that the average citizens in comics tend to be kinda braindead.

I wasn't a huge fan of Superman outing himself but I'd be 100% behind Batman doing it at this point.

[bat39]

The whole back and forth over whether Gordon knows is kind of annoying is is the fact that soon after a multi-billionaire returns to Gotham and is huge news after decades away some lunatic in a Bat costume starts fucking up the criminal element and NO ONE makes the connection.

LOL. To be fair, Miller does address this pretty well in Year One. Bruce is literally Gordon's No. 1 suspect for all the obvious reasons - he's got the money, Batman showed up not longer after he returned, and he's got the motive to declare war on crime. Hell, even after Bruce does the whole "playboy" act during their interview, Gordon isn't entirely convinced. And of course you have the final scene at the bridge, where Gordon claims he can't see Bruce's face...but its unclear whether he's maintaining plausible deniability or not.

I frankly lean towards the idea that Gordon kinda knows, but doesn't even acknowledge to himself that he knows for a couple of reasons - 1) because that knowledge further compromises him as a law enforcement officer who's already on shaky territory working with a vigilante, and 2) he too wants to believe in the idea of Batman as a legendary protector of Gotham, a hero without a face.

[Tzigone]

I think Riddler would know. if he is as smart as they try and claim he would have figured out the ultimate riddle by now. I think I remember he knew for a bit but dont know if the Recon thaet.

I'm kinda iffy on that. I sorta kinda miss the days where the Riddler was kind of a cheater, kind of a fake, rather as extremely brilliant as he wanted to be seen as.

he too wants to believe in the idea of Batman as a legendary protector of Gotham, a hero without a face.

To what degree does that impact their friendship to you? To me, I feel like with the view (or wished view) of Batman as that sort of "legend", they can't really be real friends in the way that seeing him as man allows. Indeed, I've always found that Tim's early perception of Batman ("as long as I do as he says, nothing bad can happen to me" sort of attitude) was indicative of his immaturity and something that he needed do (and did at one time) move past to see man with flaw and weaknesses as well as strengths. I don't think I can warm to the idea of Gordon seeing Batman as a savior, as other than a man, and a healthy interpersonal relationship between them remaining. Not that it's always been healthy, but usually the issues with that lie with Bruce.

[Frontier]

I'm kinda iffy on that. I sorta kinda miss the days where the Riddler was kind of a cheater, kind of a fake, rather as extremely brilliant as he wanted to be seen as.

I think it kind of defeats the point if he's not at least really, really, smart just also really, really, petty rather than a cheater.

[Tzigone]

I think it kind of defeats the point if he's not at least really, really, smart just also really, really, petty rather than a cheater.

That depends on what you think the point is, I guess. I liked his origin where he loved puzzles, but cheated to win them, enjoyed the attention/praise for accomplishments he didn't earn (fairly). He considers cheating part of the puzzle, part of his "brilliance" and buys into his own hype. I'm rather fond of a Riddler who thinks he's better than he is. And who wants a level of recognition/fame that he isn't really worthy of.

[PurpleGlovez]

I definitely preferred the old Batman universe where knowing Batman's identity was a big deal, and they at least kept up the pretense of Bruce trying to maintain his secret. Ra's al Ghul, Bane, Hugo Strange - that's all fine, but does every member of the rogues gallery really have to know? When Two-Face found out I decided it was just too much. I like when Joker doesn't (openly) reveal he knows also.

[bat39]

=

To what degree does that impact their friendship to you? To me, I feel like with the view (or wished view) of Batman as that sort of "legend", they can't really be real friends in the way that seeing him as man allows. Indeed, I've always found that Tim's early perception of Batman ("as long as I do as he says, nothing bad can happen to me" sort of attitude) was indicative of his immaturity and something that he needed do (and did at one time) move past to see man with flaw and weaknesses as well as strengths. I don't think I can warm to the idea of Gordon seeing Batman as a savior, as other than a man, and a healthy interpersonal relationship between them remaining. Not that it's always been healthy, but usually the issues with that lie with Bruce.

I seem to remember a comic, from the 70's or 80's I think, where Gordon actually thinks to himself that its just as well that he doesn't know Batman's true identity, because otherwise he'd start worrying about the man's physical safety and wellbeing the way he would for any other close friend. But maybe I'm imagining it...

I'm not saying Gordon is in awe of Batman (well, he might be on some level, but more in terms of admiration for his skill and his dedication) as a ''legend'' or ''myth''. But I think Gordon acknowledges to himself that his relationship with Batman is not a 'normal' one by any means. Batman is supposed to be this anonymous figure of the night who does the things the police can't do. He's supposed to be this larger-than-life character who strikes terror into the heart of criminals and serves as a protector to the innocent. Gordon understands the importance of Batman as a symbol, to himself and to the city, and so tries not to put a face to this man and cut him down to human proportions - even if he can.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yes, I miss a much smaller Bat-family in general without a lot of people knowing the ID. It should be limited to Dick, Alfred and Barbara, with Gordon being implied to know but not outright saying it. Villain wise, it should just be Ra's and Hugo clearly knowing it and the Joker being ambiguous.

But what I prefer doesn't really matter that much, since we're well past that at this point and all the players who know Bruce's identity are too popular to get rid of. And their fans would justifiably be pissed if they were.

[Multiverse]

I think Riddler would know. if he is as smart as they try and claim he would have figured out the ultimate riddle by now. I think I remember he knew for a bit but dont know if the Recon thaet.

He knew for a short bit following "Batman: Hush" but the writers didn't really go anywhere with it, and in the end he got his brain bashed in by Shining Knight's mace in the massive SSoSV battle in Infinite Crisis #7. He spent a year in-universe in a coma, and when he awoken, he lost a good chunk of his memories (his knowledge of Batman's true identity too), was cured of insanity and obsession with riddles, and started his tenure as Private Investigator (which was great while it lasted).

[lemonpeace]

not really, it doesn't really matter.