What does a Jon Kent Superman book need to be?

[Superlad93]

Okay, first off, CHILL. Please.

I get it. Some of us here desperately want to say something along the lines of "nonexistent", "about deaging him", "a Super Sons book", or "not called Superman". Whatever. Lets skip all of that, play the ball where it is, and have some legit conversations rather than plugging our earing and waiting to talk. So lets use the set up as we understand it so far and share some ideas.

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For me, and what I need from both Jon as a character and a young Superman as a concept, is something like a midpoint between Fraction's Hawkeye and All Star Superman (not in characterization or even feel, in terms of All Star, but in the understating that this casually a very strange world). That's a to-the-point as I can articulate it. Something that's fiercely indie its feel and how it's ultimately character driven. Clashing the relatable idea of what it's like to be emancipated as new adult, and navigating the inherent weirdness of Jon's baseline high concept life.

I need the book to feel like it can do a bunch of things you wouldn't normally see in a Superman book like make the Superman in question look a silly, sexy, and makes big and small mistakes. And this may be controversial, but I kind of need a Superman book that's not scared of having the Superman question NOT punch anything for that issue.

And just contextualizing already existing ideas into more relatable bites. "Me and my girlfriend broke up because she's from 1000 years in the future" "that's rough, dude. But also accurate. My girlfriend wanted me to move in, but I wasn't ready". That sort of Fraction-y playing with the absurdity in a really human way is exactly what I think Jon and a new Superman need right now to tie together everything that's happened to him as a feature rather than a bug.

I don't need buzz words and ideas like "pulp", "cosmic", "champion of the oppressed", or anything of the sort because that's all sort of one size fits all, and we're always just kind of looking for a version of Superman to transplant that onto without much of a care for what that particular character may be suited for. And what I think Jon as a character and modern day Superman is suited for and need right now is to have the sort of measured and idiosyncratic feel of a true character driven narrative.

[Alpha]

Fine, going along with the plans that they seem to have, I want Jon Kent to be the scientist of the super family. I think it would be more interesting if he was weaker than Clark but found a way to compensate by pushing the boundaries of science. Imagine a Superdude with gadgets. This is reflective of many things, including the whole Legion of Super-heroes cha bang, and the fact that he grew up surrounded by a world in transformation and seemed to admire being a kryptonian much more than Clark did.

I think it's also a way to have him inadvertedly develop on the Lois Lane side of his personality. Lois wants to uncover every secret in politics and business, and I think Jon would adapt this to an unquenchable thirst for finding out every secret in the universe. Both his parents are very intelligent, Jon should even surpass them in that regard. I don't think Jon would be a methodical scientist though. He would be kind of a crazy scientist using his powers in unpredicatable ways and diving right into mysterious places without any worry towards what dangers lurk in there.

I think it would be fascinanting to have him attempt to bring parts of the phantom zone into our own dimension, ride around with robot supermen as his crew, create "positive" bizarro, etc.

This is how you create a distinct personality that is about himself, and not about "fixing the brand".

[Robanker]

I've done a bit of writing on what I think Jon should be as Superman, but I'll skip that because this is more "what should his book be?"

Well, it should be about Jon as a new Superman and thinking about what that means for him. Have him fight some of his dad's rogues, have him develop his own. He needs to establish a love interest, a supporting cast and a status quo. He cannot just be another reporter. He cannot just be his dad, nor can he only deal with Clark's villains beyond his first year. I'd say look to Batman Beyond as inspiration: some motifs continue, but he largely developed new foes and had his own personal life.

Jon desperately needs his own gimmicks to stick. Absolutely use some of his dad's B-list villains to show just how different he is from his dad (both in being not as good as him yet and also in highlighting how he vanquishes them in his own unique ways) but once that's established, move away from the classic and go new. Is this harder than the reliable rogues? Yes, but we have Clark for them. Jon needs to make a case for why he should stick around and the most effective way to do so is to build his support network.

[Ascended]

Haven't been to the LCS to catch up on any of the Future State books so I can't really comment on much, as far as Jon's current narrative goes.

But if you want to build a new Superman? Using Jon?

So, we talk a lot about whether Clark's "SUPERman" or "superMAN" right? And we all go back and forth about that divide between the fantastical and the mundane in Clark's character. But Jon doesn't really have that; there's no divide splitting his life into compartmentalized pieces, and for most of his life the fantastical has *been* the mundane.

So perhaps the approach for Jon is to treat the crazy, zany, cosmic superheroics as his "normal" while regular life boggles his mind and is seen, through his eyes, as utterly alien, strange, and whimsical. It's not merely the fact that the weird and crazy is a regular part of Jon's life, it's that he's more comfortable with those things than he is everyday living. I think you could pull some really interesting commentary out of a kid who is totally flabbergasted by the idea of a toll booth but thinks alien communication using shades of color instead of sound is the most natural thing in the world.

If the idea of Clark is that everyone has a superhero hidden beneath their humble work clothes, then perhaps the spin for Jon is closer to that of a celebrity who feels like they have a Joe Average hidden beneath their silk suit. If that makes any sense? It's been a long, long week (what do you mean it's only Monday??) and I'm not articulating this very well.

[sifighter]

Honestly I would like to see something like Superman of Metropolis in a sense, this idea of Jon finding where he fits in the greater dc universe. While Jon may look a little like his dad, though that's just what you get from genetics, he is a separate individual. His father is out as Superman so clearly that means Jon has no secret identity, so what does an older Jon with no secret identity act like. Maybe he is more Metropolis centrist as he believes in being a man of the people, connected to the everyman instead of just flying over their heads and especially since there are so many other heroes dealing with the rest of the world. Given his past maybe he's less serious then his father, a lot more playful with cracking jokes more and making anime or video game references. People like his Dad, Kara, and Steel (both Henry and Natasha) all exist in Metropolis so maybe that means he doesn't have to extend himself as much and he can connect more, as I would see him the kind who takes a walk down the street where people call him superboy and he stops every once in a while to get a cat out of a tree.

I assume he would get his own friends, people who he hangs out with on the regular outside of his best friend Damian, who yes I would assume stops by. I don't just mean other people his age, but people in the Metropolis community like charity heads or organizations for making Metropolis a better place. I would assume that he donates his time to charity and such.

[Alpha]

I assume we're meant to refrain from arguing against other people's ideas right? Since we already have those discussions elsewhere.

[Alpha]

Haven't been to the LCS to catch up on any of the Future State books so I can't really comment on much, as far as Jon's current narrative goes.

But if you want to build a new Superman? Using Jon?

So, we talk a lot about whether Clark's "SUPERman" or "superMAN" right? And we all go back and forth about that divide between the fantastical and the mundane in Clark's character. But Jon doesn't really have that; there's no divide splitting his life into compartmentalized pieces, and for most of his life the fantastical has *been* the mundane.

So perhaps the approach for Jon is to treat the crazy, zany, cosmic superheroics as his "normal" while regular life boggles his mind and is seen, through his eyes, as utterly alien, strange, and whimsical. It's not merely the fact that the weird and crazy is a regular part of Jon's life, it's that he's more comfortable with those things than he is everyday living. I think you could pull some really interesting commentary out of a kid who is totally flabbergasted by the idea of a toll booth but thinks alien communication using shades of color instead of sound is the most natural thing in the world.

If the idea of Clark is that everyone has a superhero hidden beneath their humble work clothes, then perhaps the spin for Jon is closer to that of a celebrity who feels like they have a Joe Average hidden beneath their silk suit. If that makes any sense? It's been a long, long week (what do you mean it's only Monday??) and I'm not articulating this very well.

I agree. Jon is much more fascinated by his kryptonian and alien side than he is by his human side. I think Future State got Jon Kent all wrong. I know we talk about how Jon's personality hasn't been developed yet, but there a lot of clues actually, both based on how he acted as a kid and on the influences and experience he had up until now, including assumed influences like Lois Lane. And honestly, that's the most interesting version of Jon Kent. Someone who is more human than any of the other kyptonians, and yet is the one that probably feels most bored by earth.

[sifighter]

I assume we're meant to refrain from arguing against other people's ideas right? Since we already have those discussions elsewhere.

I mean there is a difference between arguing and discussion. Like for instance, while I doubt I would like to see Jon as a Mister Terrific or Atom type super genius character, it would be cool to see him lean into the more gadget and sci-fi angle. I love the idea of Jon and his robo-Supermen.

[PCN24454]

Real time. I hate stuff set in the "future".

[Alpha]

I mean there is a difference between arguing and discussion. Like for instance, while I doubt I would like to see Jon as a Mister Terrific or Atom type super genius character, it would be cool to see him lean into the more gadget and sci-fi angle. I love the idea of Jon and his robo-Supermen.

Oh yeah, the description I would give of Jon is totally an excentric mad scientist. Accidental explosions would be expected in any of his experiments. You would be very afraid any time he tells you he has a great plan.

Which means he is a lot more "smart" than he is intelligent or wise. Kind of careless but not in an actual dangerous way. Just wacky. And he absolutely has to have the typical Doc Brown messy hair.

[king81992]

Jon should be a figure who inspires loyalty in unexpected places, a guy who gets people who aren't usually team players or criminals to put aside their grievances and work towards the greater good. A hero who manages to rehabilitate and change folk for the better.

[manwhohaseverything]

First and foremost,fun and adventure all around.That's the core of the character.The exploration.He's the adventurer.The kid should be always up for some mischief.The kid is an energetic character taking on the world by storm.He is ambitious.He's got guts.He's optimistic.He does what's right.He's reckless.Yet,he is sensitive.He's passionate and emotional.

[Superlad93]

Jon does need his own gimmick that works with his idea and character, yeah.

In terms of power, it seems clear that Kara is going to be the most powerful character on Earth going forward, but PKJ has also said that Jon has the potential to be more powerful than his dad, thus by extension Kara. So for me, I'd hold off almost completely on that potential. Make it something Jon can't even comprehend being true, and let Kara have her Top Dog status. But keep the idea of that potential as this monolith in Jon's mind (maybe show some Gohan style "how did I even do that" bursts of power that go as quickly as they come very rarely and under some specifically contrived set of circumstances). There's a really specific gimmick I have in mind, but it goes into fan fiction territory more than this already is.

But in practice, he's the "runt of the litter". Still makes him one of the most powerful beings on the planet, but he's very clearly a demi-god to Kara's god. The whole "maybe someday, but for now you gotta do it the hard way" aspect has a very anime vibe to it that's not so overwhelming as to overtake the narrative and main idea of the character.

And I like the idea that almost like Snyder's BVS, with Clark gone the bell is rung, and now everyone is coming out of the woodwork to test the kid. Revamped villains we haven't seen in ages, new guys that fought Clark off-screen, and new guys looking to make a name for themselves. And for some of these Jon just flat out can't win physically, so he's either gotta out smart them, or try and talk it out (I always liked how Invincible thought to talk things through with Alan The Alien). I kind of want a level of pragmatism out of Jon that his dad just wouldn't be down for. That's what lead him to think up the United Planets.

But maybe most important of all, I really liked Jon's "9 to 5 job" take on being Superman from Future State: Superman/Wonder Woman. While that's not THE future, I'd like to see a burgeoning "entry level" version of that live on. But the cool part is that he's not nearly as organized or as powerful as Future State older Jon, so he's even more on the back foot than that guy, and on top of that public option being in his favor wouldn't be a given. It's like going from college, making it into your field, and realizing "holy ****, my field is hard", and having a serious case of imposter syndrome, second guessing if this is even what you want to do for the rest of your life, and trying to find that balance of where work ends and yourself as a person begins.

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Also, in the sprit of Jon not being Clark, I kinda wanna see unintentionally find an equivalent to getting drunk, and then deal with the morning after and possible headlines given his fame. I'd want that to be part of the whole idea that he's a Superman of controversy, and every single misstep is magnified in the public eye.

[manwhohaseverything]

that's clark right.Yeah! i would prefer not.Jon being stuck in an office is boring.I would rather jon if at all working be a blue collar guy,get an independant source of work.I say they should keep with superman of metropolis.WW/superman was the worst book of future state for me.Where is the adventure in an office?
Also,powerlevel is irrelavant.The presentation of powers is what matter to readers.I would hope they ditch the sun dipping thing,heck!sun powers enterily.His powers being physiology based is much better.I don't want jon to be stuck with tension removing plot devices and tendencies.I would also like something creative.Heck!it can be taking your arm and throwing it.But,just do something cool.

[Superlad93]

I would hope they ditch the sun dipping thing,heck!sun powers enterily.His powers being physiology based is much better.

That would go against the point of this thread. That point being to go propose something based off what is already being established as the direction for the character. Clearly solar powers are still his thing as far as we know.