What does a Jon Kent Superman book need to be?

[Stick Figure]

If he had a secret identity, I’d like him to have a different type of career than every other hero. Everyone us so successful. Why can’t one person work retail or be a purchasing person in state government. Maybe he doesn’t know what he wants to do yet & is flipping burgers. Everyone is a freaking scientist or millionaire.

Hopefully no other ID though. I like the idea he’s just one person all the time. I also like giving him his own costume. Doesn’t have to have a cape or even the same colors. Doesn’t have to be consistent. Maybe he doesn’t always wear the uniform when he’s in action. If isn’t hiding an identity, he can go out in regular clothes.

As far as personality, I’d like to see him a bit more proactive rather than reactionary. I’d like to see someone aggressive even if that means they make mistakes.

[rpmaluki]

I never said he should fight his mom. I meant he should have a relationship with her and her family. There should be stories where he tries to connect with his grandfather or try to be a mediator between his mom and aunt. If he and his mom disagree on an issue that's not the end of the world.

Did Sam Lane suddenly come back to life and I missed it?

[Jackalope89]

Okay, first off, CHILL. Please.

I get it. Some of us here desperately want to say something along the lines of "nonexistent", "about deaging him", "a Super Sons book", or "not called Superman". Whatever. Lets skip all of that, play the ball where it is, and have some legit conversations rather than plugging our earing and waiting to talk. So lets use the set up as we understand it so far and share some ideas.

_________

For me, and what I need from both Jon as a character and a young Superman as a concept, is something like a midpoint between Fraction's Hawkeye and All Star Superman (not in characterization or even feel, in terms of All Star, but in the understating that this casually a very strange world). That's a to-the-point as I can articulate it. Something that's fiercely indie its feel and how it's ultimately character driven. Clashing the relatable idea of what it's like to be emancipated as new adult, and navigating the inherent weirdness of Jon's baseline high concept life.

I need the book to feel like it can do a bunch of things you wouldn't normally see in a Superman book like make the Superman in question look a silly, sexy, and makes big and small mistakes. And this may be controversial, but I kind of need a Superman book that's not scared of having the Superman question NOT punch anything for that issue.

And just contextualizing already existing ideas into more relatable bites. "Me and my girlfriend broke up because she's from 1000 years in the future" "that's rough, dude. But also accurate. My girlfriend wanted me to move in, but I wasn't ready". That sort of Fraction-y playing with the absurdity in a really human way is exactly what I think Jon and a new Superman need right now to tie together everything that's happened to him as a feature rather than a bug.

I don't need buzz words and ideas like "pulp", "cosmic", "champion of the oppressed", or anything of the sort because that's all sort of one size fits all, and we're always just kind of looking for a version of Superman to transplant that onto without much of a care for what that particular character may be suited for. And what I think Jon as a character and modern day Superman is suited for and need right now is to have the sort of measured and idiosyncratic feel of a true character driven narrative.

I've already posted mine, several times.

Jon Kent that we've seen is really Ultra Boy! Son of Ultraman and Superwoman, sent to Prime Earth as a deep undercover agent. When Earth Prime's Superman is kept away from Earth for a long time, Ultraboy's programming kicks in. He goes on a tear, ambushing heroes and villains alike while collecting various pieces of technology. After a time, and neutralizing (we are NOT Injustice here) others, Ultraboy opens the portal to Earth 3. Only to have a small blue streak smash into him and destroy the portal. And thus, the REAL Jon Kent, thanks to surprise and secret help from Damian, Kathy, and the Bizarro Boyz, turns the tables on his Earth 3 counterpart, apprehends him, and they put him in juvie for supercriminals.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Did Sam Lane suddenly come back to life and I missed it?

I didn't even know he died.

My post was for a possible Jon Kent solo. I was focusing on broad strokes that could be changed.

[Superboy-Prime]

I've already posted mine, several times.

Jon Kent that we've seen is really Ultra Boy! Son of Ultraman and Superwoman, sent to Prime Earth as a deep undercover agent. When Earth Prime's Superman is kept away from Earth for a long time, Ultraboy's programming kicks in. He goes on a tear, ambushing heroes and villains alike while collecting various pieces of technology. After a time, and neutralizing (we are NOT Injustice here) others, Ultraboy opens the portal to Earth 3. Only to have a small blue streak smash into him and destroy the portal. And thus, the REAL Jon Kent, thanks to surprise and secret help from Damian, Kathy, and the Bizarro Boyz, turns the tables on his Earth 3 counterpart, apprehends him, and they put him in juvie for supercriminals.

This is exactly what he asked not to respond with.

[Superlad93]

If he had a secret identity, I’d like him to have a different type of career than every other hero. Everyone us so successful. Why can’t one person work retail or be a purchasing person in state government. Maybe he doesn’t know what he wants to do yet & is flipping burgers. Everyone is a freaking scientist or millionaire.

I actually think it would be pretty inspired for Jon as an 18 to 20 year old (depending on how long he's been away with the Legion. PKJ keeps saying "basically an adult") Superman working a minimum wage job when he's not saving the world. And the best part would be that he'd be known by everyone since his identity is public.

I was actually thinking along these lines when I brought up Fraction's Hawkeye. And to work it in with PKJ's take as we know it so far, Jon is a "man out of time" who has bounced around so many different places and times since he was born that he's kind of perfectly at that 20 something mentality of "I have no idea what the rest of my life looks like"/"is this what I want to do", so like any young adult in that situation you usually work some sort of retail job to put some money in your pocket and give yourself some time and room to get your shit together.

But Jon's a very specific case because as a Superman with no secret identity, clearly there's no shortage of job opportunities being thrown at him left and right. Everything from big fat military contracts to endorsement deals. But Jon's also a Kent, so there's that idea of being fair, and he doesn't think it would be right to cash in on his powers or status.

So a job interview sort of goes like this

"so explain it to me again. You're saying I should hire you, but you won't do the job?"

"No, not at all, ma'am! I'd most certainly do the work...just slower, and, you know, not so super"

"So we'd be paying for you to be BAD at your job, Mr. Kent?"

"No! Just not super..."

Till he gets hired at a grocery/mid sized bodega over on the east side. The owner, despite Jon's fame, makes a point to treat him with the same level of respect and expectations he'd treat any other employee. That means saving sick days just in case he gets trapped in time travel adventure with the Legion, using bathroom breaks to and spare moments to stop natural disasters, and using his precious precious 30 minute lunch break to do all the big stuff. And of course there's getting co workers to cover switch shifts with him so he can, you know, save the city/world. You could do some fun parallel structure there with Jon beating back some giant robot, and cross cut that with the 40 year old single mom who took his shift for the day. Each punch cross cut with the beep of an item being scanned. A hit taken being cut with a disgruntled customer yelling at this woman and her having to grit through it. And when it seems like both are down and out-- Jon on one knee checking to see if his nose is in fact broken, and the woman taking a moment to herself after a manager has had to step in with the costumer-- they both ring the bell, get back in there, and finish strong. When the day's over and both are beat, the woman gets to tell her son "you know, I helped Superman save the world today", Jon hears it and smiles.


I said, I wasn't going to go into fan fiction territory, but, sure enough, here I am. Oh well lol

[Alpha]

Till he gets hired at a grocery/mid sized bodega over on the east side. The owner, despite Jon's fame, makes a point to treat him with the same level of respect and expectations he'd treat any other employee. That means saving sick days just in case he gets trapped in time travel adventure with the Legion, using bathroom breaks to and spare moments to stop natural disasters, and using his precious precious 30 minute lunch break to do all the big stuff. And of course there's getting co workers to cover switch shifts with him so he can, you know, save the city/world. You could do some fun parallel structure there with Jon beating back some giant robot, and cross cut that with the 40 year old single mom who took his shift for the day. Each punch cross cut with the beep of an item being scanned. A hit taken being cut with a disgruntled customer yelling at this woman and her having to grit through it. And when it seems like both are down and out-- Jon on one knee checking to see if his nose is in fact broken, and the woman taking a moment to herself after a manager has had to step in with the costumer-- they both ring the bell, get back in there, and finish strong. When the day's over and both are beat, the woman gets to tell her son "you know, I helped Superman save the world today", Jon hears it and smiles.

It's a really fun idea, but I would rather Conner was the one living among the people, for various reasons, but mostly because he is the one whose life started as an object, not as a person.

Thus, the life you sort of described would be more meaningful to him, I think. The fact that everyone knows he's a clone, and yet they come to see him much more clearly as a human being than they do with the rest of the super family.

[Superlad93]

It's a really fun idea, but I would rather Conner was the one living among the people, for various reasons, but mostly because he is the one whose life started as an object, not as a person.

Thus, the life you sort of described would be more meaningful to him, I think. The fact that everyone knows he's a clone, and yet they come to see him much more clearly as a human being than they do with the rest of the super family.

You and I fundamentally agree about Conner. That's really the long and short of it. But thank you for your kind words about my idea.

[manwhohaseverything]

If he had a secret identity, I’d like him to have a different type of career than every other hero. Everyone us so successful. Why can’t one person work retail or be a purchasing person in state government. Maybe he doesn’t know what he wants to do yet & is flipping burgers. Everyone is a freaking scientist or millionaire.

Hopefully no other ID though. I like the idea he’s just one person all the time. I also like giving him his own costume. Doesn’t have to have a cape or even the same colors. Doesn’t have to be consistent. Maybe he doesn’t always wear the uniform when he’s in action. If isn’t hiding an identity, he can go out in regular clothes.

As far as personality, I’d like to see him a bit more proactive rather than reactionary. I’d like to see someone aggressive even if that means they make mistakes.

I agree with this completely.
edit-I got this idea about not always wearing uniform in action.Jon kent goes shirtless.

[Ascended]

Finally read the Future State stuff last night, and I'm really digging how they handled Jon there.

On top of what I said a page or two back I'd like to see more of this kind of science fantasy, underdog celebrity hero approach with Jon. The idea that he's not as powerful as Clark or Kara and has to solve problems using his head and technology more than just his muscles (reminds me of Tom Strong, which is always a good thing!), that people are always comparing him unfavorably to his family, and Jon easily going to extremes that his father wouldn't usually consider. It felt fresh, loyal to what came before without being slavish to the past, and I liked the updates to certain elements in the mythos like the Brain Cells. I actually wish that Metropolis had remained bottled, at full size, with a few entrances carved into the base so the city could still function and operate "normally" while retaining a classic and iconic visual from Super-lore.

[Restingvoice]

The thing is I don't know enough about Jon aside from being a cute kid enough to be able to define what kind of Superman he should be. Like I haven't seen how he grow up or what he experienced, discounting the flashback stories, so I really have no idea, because when he arrives back on earth he seems to be... not... really... changed that much?

Let's just say though that he's severely traumatized as a teen after his trip and torture to Earth-3 and beyond, then I think he should be more... reserved in his late teens, and it takes a lot for him to open up and be trusting again. I don't want him to be too angsty or violent, I don't want him to be vengeful. So my option is that.

Secretive, silent, reserved. Having problem trusting people again, but not an outwardly jerk like Batman. Just guarded.

Then that continues to adulthood. The image of him, if Clark is this smiling inspiring figure of good, then Jon's more careful, silent, protective. Still good, he just doesn't smile as much. He's scarred.

PS. Haven't read Future State, I'm basing it solely on what happened to him during the initial time skip

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

The thing is I don't know enough about Jon aside from being a cute kid enough to be able to define what kind of Superman he should be. Like I haven't seen how he grow up or what he experienced, discounting the flashback stories, so I really have no idea, because when he arrives back on earth he seems to be... not... really... changed that much?

Let's just say though that he's severely traumatized as a teen after his trip and torture to Earth-3 and beyond, then I think he should be more... reserved in his late teens, and it takes a lot for him to open up and be trusting again. I don't want him to be too angsty or violent, I don't want him to be vengeful. So my option is that.

Secretive, silent, reserved. Having problem trusting people again, but not an outwardly jerk like Batman. Just guarded.

Then that continues to adulthood. The image of him, if Clark is this smiling inspiring figure of good, then Jon's more careful, silent, protective. Still good, he just doesn't smile as much. He's scarred.

PS. Haven't read Future State, I'm basing it solely on what happened to him during the initial time skip

I like this take more than what Bendis has done so far. It still would be controversial etc but this more bang for your buck.

Funny thing is, he'd be more reluctant to get involved with Saturn Girl.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Fine, going along with the plans that they seem to have, I want Jon Kent to be the scientist of the super family. I think it would be more interesting if he was weaker than Clark but found a way to compensate by pushing the boundaries of science. Imagine a Superdude with gadgets. This is reflective of many things, including the whole Legion of Super-heroes cha bang, and the fact that he grew up surrounded by a world in transformation and seemed to admire being a kryptonian much more than Clark did.

I think it's also a way to have him inadvertedly develop on the Lois Lane side of his personality. Lois wants to uncover every secret in politics and business, and I think Jon would adapt this to an unquenchable thirst for finding out every secret in the universe. Both his parents are very intelligent, Jon should even surpass them in that regard. I don't think Jon would be a methodical scientist though. He would be kind of a crazy scientist using his powers in unpredicatable ways and diving right into mysterious places without any worry towards what dangers lurk in there.

I think it would be fascinanting to have him attempt to bring parts of the phantom zone into our own dimension, ride around with robot supermen as his crew, create "positive" bizarro, etc.

This is how you create a distinct personality that is about himself, and not about "fixing the brand".

I like the scientist idea, making him a journalist would be so uninspired and boring. Making him a Dr Who type scientist, who wants to explore new places and learn more sounds fun.

[marhawkman]

I'd like it if they did a book with Jon and Lor-zod in a situation where they're written like neighbors and maybe do super-stuff sometimes.