Batman / Catwoman # 3 (Spoilers, Discussion, Etc ...)

[lefthanded]

Can we stop with this? Why do you come here to spill bullcrap? King has written plenty of great things, and Rorscharch is proof of how good his storytelling still is.

I have enjoyed all of King's work up to this point, so I do think everyone dumps on the King style a little too much.

Having said that, Batman/Catwoman is the first King book where the King style is grating on me (despite loving Strange Adventures at the same time). Things that didn't annoy me on his other work (circuitious dialogue, talking past one another) is really not working for me here.

Having multiple timelines just adds confusion without adding to the experience for me. It is becoming just a narrative flourish without actually making the story better. After three issues, I feel like this series is a plot that could be completed in 1-2 issues, but is instead being stretched out with different time periods added for mystery.

It is perplexing, as the way King plays with using different timelines for mystery and revelation works perfectly in Strange Adventures and in Rorscharch. I don't know why it just isn't working here.

[Fergus]

Can we stop with this? Why do you come here to spill bullcrap? King has written plenty of great things, and Rorscharch is proof of how good his storytelling still is.

What /Who needs to stop? Arrogant fans who can't seem to understand that taste is subjective and feel the need to police other peoples Opinions.

This is better than King's Batman at least.

I know that a lot of the draw for this title is the art but man! Mann is getting real ridiculous.

I'm still trying to figure out why some will pay for cheesecake when porn is free?

Not judging just curious.

[Alpha]

That person said they dropped the book last issue. Why are they coming into a thread about this issue and commenting. I've read people's displeasure with Tom King's run on Batman, It's nothing new. I wish people would just create a thread dedicating for describing how much they despise his writing and think he has no talent.

That way everyone gets what they want, I don't get King hate on a thread about an issue the person hasn't even read, and they don't get annoyed by me complaining about their comments. I hate Superman/ Wonder Woman shipping, but I don't go in there to talk about how terrible it is. Those people have their interests and they created an enviroment specifically for it. No need to disturb it.

I don't see why anyone would disagree with me when I say that the point of this thread isn't about people that aren't reading the series commenting on it, and that comments like "speaks volumes about Tom King's terrible writing" are totally out of place. He has written plenty of great things and you can complain about this issue (if you read it) without saying he is a terrible storyteller, since he has multiple universally aclaimed stories to prove you wrong (like Vision).

[Alpha]

I have enjoyed all of King's work up to this point, so I do think everyone dumps on the King style a little too much.

Having said that, Batman/Catwoman is the first King book where the King style is grating on me (despite loving Strange Adventures at the same time). Things that didn't annoy me on his other work (circuitious dialogue, talking past one another) is really not working for me here.

Having multiple timelines just adds confusion without adding to the experience for me. It is becoming just a narrative flourish without actually making the story better. After three issues, I feel like this series is a plot that could be completed in 1-2 issues, but is instead being stretched out with different time periods added for mystery.

It is perplexing, as the way King plays with using different timelines for mystery and revelation works perfectly in Strange Adventures and in Rorscharch. I don't know why it just isn't working here.

Yeah he kind of got into a habit and this is a story that would definitely work better if it was in chronological order instead of jumping through timelines.

[Vordan]

I enjoy Mann as an artist, but it seems like he needs to spend some time in Horny jail.

He and King just do not fit well together at all from a storytelling standpoint. King is trying to tell these very serious and dark stories and Mann is meanwhile drawing bare naked women for T&A purpose, totally killing the vibe King is going for. I really like King’s Helena but Mann’s Batwoman design is awful.

[Fergus]

He and King just do not fit well together at all from a storytelling standpoint. King is trying to tell these very serious and dark stories and Mann is meanwhile drawing bare naked women for T&A purpose, totally killing the vibe King is going for. I really like King’s Helena but Mann’s Batwoman design is awful.

Didn't King pick Mann for this title personally?
The artist that King has called on to draw the key Batcat moments from his Batman run?

Seems to me that King believes that he enhances his storytelling.

I think that Mann goes too sexy at time. HIC is another good example of King and Mann doing cheesecake masked as serious.

[Fergus]

That person said they dropped the book last issue. Why are they coming into a thread about this issue and commenting. I've read people's displeasure with Tom King's run on Batman, It's nothing new. I wish people would just create a thread dedicating for describing how much they despise his writing and think he has no talent.

That way everyone gets what they want, I don't get King hate on a thread about an issue the person hasn't even read, and they don't get annoyed by me complaining about their comments. I hate Superman/ Wonder Woman shipping, but I don't go in there to talk about how terrible it is. Those people have their interests and they created an enviroment specifically for it. No need to disturb it.

I don't see why anyone would disagree with me when I say that the point of this thread isn't about people that aren't reading the series commenting on it, and that comments like "speaks volumes about Tom King's terrible writing" are totally out of place. He has written plenty of great things and you can complain about this issue (if you read it) without saying he is a terrible storyteller, since he has multiple universally aclaimed stories to prove you wrong (like Vision).

They were reading the title till they dropped it. There are threads discussing #1 and #2. Celgress contributed to those so I'm guessing this is their contributing this week. The decision to drop the title.

Universally acclaimed don't prove anything since appreciation of creative work is highly subjective. Lots of critically acclaimed work are panned by consumers.

It's subjective depending on personal prefernce and this isn't the 1st time others have complained about King's storytelling. Good writers can do very bad work.

North American accolades doesn't equal universally acclaimed fyi

[Alpha]

Is saying that they "dropped the book" really a contribution to this thread? And even if it is, why also claim that King's storytelling is bad? He stated it as an universal statement, not this title in particular. I think it's pretty dickish to claim a writer with various praised stories doesn't know how to write.

I haven't heard anyone complain about Vision. Nor have I heard anyone complain about Omega Men. And they were both very aclaimed. So lots of love+ no hate means universal acclaim to me.

[Celgress]

Is saying that they "dropped the book" really a contribution to this thread? And even if it is, why also claim that King's storytelling is bad? He stated it as an universal statement, not this title in particular. I think it's pretty dickish to claim a writer with various praised stories doesn't know how to write.

I haven't heard anyone complain about Vision. Nor have I heard anyone complain about Omega Men. And they were both very aclaimed. So lots of love+ no hate means universal acclaim to me.

You're right. I made a mistake. I shouldn't post in these threads anymore I'll strictly refrain from doing so in the future. My opinion is clearly putting more eyes on King's trash considering how half this thread is a reaction to your reaction to my post rather than the issue itself.

Good day to you.

[Frances]

There's something very off with grandma Selina for me. I love Catwoman and especially enjoy new perspectives on her, but I can't find a reference in granny that I recognise. I'm enjoying the Selina/Catwoman depictions in the other timelines, though. What I'm not enjoying is the gaze Mann is using. Seriously, we left the 90's already. It's probably worse than Balent because of the deliberateness of it.

Really cool to see Helena debut as Batwoman, but again that gaze.

The story and the telling of it—meh. Only really enjoying the past's Cat/Joker scenes. Will keep subbing because Selina is my thing and because there are odd panels that hit, but I feel it has been mediocre so far.

[Alpha]

You're right. I made a mistake. I shouldn't post in these threads anymore I'll strictly refrain from doing so in the future. My opinion is clearly putting more eyes on King's trash considering how half this thread is a reaction to your reaction to my post rather than the issue itself.

Good day to you.

I don't remember having any issues with you elsewhere, just don't think this one thing is apropriate.

[Alpha]

King has set up an interesting dynamic here. Helena solving the mystery where her own mother is the murderer. I kind of have a feeling that Helena suspects Selina, but is trying to play a game with her to see if she will confess, which she obviously won't.

[Celgress]

I don't remember having any issues with you elsewhere, just don't think this one thing is apropriate.

I don't think you singling me out is appropriate either. I simply stated I don't like King's storytelling and think it is utter trash: was he good at one time, IMO, yes, but he isn't anymore. Not only did I hate his Batman run but I think his disturbingly violent "Up in the Sky" in which he turned one of the strongest female comic book characters into a hypothetical victim of a graphic murder to be edgy nothing but atrocious, it should never have been published. There you've got it: this is what I truly think of King's recent "work".

Anyhow, enough of this. I'll see you around.

[Alpha]

Yeah this discussion is totally uninteresting to me. I came here to read about how people reacted to Bat/ Cat 3. Not interested in reading about anything else on here.

[Batman Begins 2005]

All true, which is why I dropped the title last issue. Even the Phantasm could not hold my interest which speaks volumes to King's terrible storytelling as I'm a huge Phantasm fan.

Edit - But, hey, whatever floats your boat.

I wanted to like this book as a hard-core Batman fan and seeing the Phantasm added to the DC books which needed to happen years ago. I've read the first three issues and that's enough for me. The majority of Tom King's Batman run was rubbish IMHO. I actually wanted Tom King on Batman thanks to Vision mainly and Grayson. Such a hit and miss writer. Vision is brilliant, Grayson good, Batman was bad and Heroes in Crisis was wretched.