What are you thoughts on the value of Batman (Bruce) comics 10+ years from now?

[MajorHoy]

For me Curse of the White Knight and Earth One are as good as if not better than Court of Owls

But Court of Owls does have that great artwork . . .

[batnbreakfast]

But Court of Owls does have that great artwork . . .

So do the other two. Sean Murphy, Gary Frank. I don't love Capullo any less.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

For me Curse of the White Knight and Earth One are as good as if not better than Court of Owls

They probably are better, but they are not close to it in popularity.

I personally can't stand Sean Murphy's art.

[Frances]

Who says Batman will always be Bruce Wayne? Or that Batman stories can't be told from a new perspective?

"There's a storm coming, Mr. Wayne. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us."

"You sound like you're looking forward to it."

"I'm adaptable."

Or how about when Ivy goes full hero to tap into the growing readership of concerned world citizens? Who will be the perfect anti-hero in need of a redemption arc?

For me, the fascination with Batman has always been as an adversary. Fans of the cast of villains and anti-heros in gotham likely outnumber his. Batman hasn't been a shining beacon for an incredibly long time, which is why he endures. Both as a complex character for some fans to enjoy, and as a foil to measure other characters against.

[spatterdasher]

For me, the fascination with Batman has always been as an adversary. Fans of the cast of villains and anti-heros in gotham likely outnumber his. Batman hasn't been a shining beacon for an incredibly long time, which is why he endures. Both as a complex character for some fans to enjoy, and as a foil to measure other characters against.

Came here to say this. Batman has probably the most popular rogues gallery in comics. There's sizeable portion of young fans who dislike Bruce Wayne for the very reasons OP gives (white billionaire who beats up the mentally ill) but are diehard fans of the rogues themselves. If Batman becomes less popular (which still seems unlikely), early appearances of his classic rogues will likely remain desirable.

[Restingvoice]

Does this apply to all rich white superheroes, like Iron Man too? I don't think his race or wealth has anything to do with his popularity, anecdotally kids and young people like him a lot from what I've seen.

Depend on the group you talk to. Iron Man's popularity with his fans in MCU... don't know about comics... is on the charisma of the character and actor. The richness is barely talked about.

People are tired of Iron Man because he has to be in every MCU movie. Some Spidey fans also want their movie to be about Spider-Man, not Iron Man's apprentice

The people I know who talk about rich = bad, I don't really see signs of them reading comics or they don't read comics anymore despite being in the fandom, if they talk about Batfam they prefer the Batkids than Batman and make their own fanfic rather than canon since canon sucks, and they're tired of MCU as well since it's owned by Disney, a giant demon corporate.

[captchuck]

It is always tough to guess at what will be popular in the future. Most people predict the future incorrectly.

[SiegePerilous02]

Came here to say this. Batman has probably the most popular rogues gallery in comics. There's sizeable portion of young fans who dislike Bruce Wayne for the very reasons OP gives (white billionaire who beats up the mentally ill) but are diehard fans of the rogues themselves. If Batman becomes less popular (which still seems unlikely), early appearances of his classic rogues will likely remain desirable.

His rogues gallery being popular is really just down to the same 15-20 or so that made it into BTAS and other media. Beyond that most of his rogues gallery is standard to forgettable.

Most of them, especially the Joker, are not realistically mentally ill and there is precedent for them not really belonging in Arkham. And the doctors are quacks. So the Twitter crowd saying he beats up the mentally ill and poor people is just a shallow reading to score woke points. He's more likely to protect the poor and legit mental ill people from his rogues

[The True Detective]

Depend on the group you talk to. Iron Man's popularity with his fans in MCU... don't know about comics... is on the charisma of the character and actor. The richness is barely talked about.

People are tired of Iron Man because he has to be in every MCU movie. Some Spidey fans also want their movie to be about Spider-Man, not Iron Man's apprentice

The people I know who talk about rich = bad, I don't really see signs of them reading comics or they don't read comics anymore despite being in the fandom, if they talk about Batfam they prefer the Batkids than Batman and make their own fanfic rather than canon since canon sucks, and they're tired of MCU as well since it's owned by Disney, a giant demon corporate.

What do you mean the richness is barely talked about, one of his most famous quotes is the "genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist" line from the 1st Avengers movie. If anything, I feel like Iron Man's wealth is seen as more important to his overall character than Batman's wealth is to his. Bruce is a way more effective crime fighter than Tony if both were stripped of all their money and tech. Bruce would still have his peak human physical abilities, detective skills and fighting skills. Those Iron Man suits aren't cheap.

The argument of "white guy beating up the mentally ill" is such a stupid one, I'm black and I have to ask, what the **** does his race have to do with anything? Is being white inherently bad or problematic now or something? If so, I must've not gotten that memo. And characters are race swapped all the time, if Bruce was made black or Asian or another race would him beating up criminals with mental health issues all of a sudden be ok?

He's a freaking comic book character, it's an action genre, of course he's gonna get physical. No one wants to see Batman sit the Joker down and beat him via a debate. As Seige said, a lot of his villains are mentally ill in a cartoonish "I'm kuh-waaazy!" way anyway. Hell, Joker even has the "lolz I'm actually super sane" BS sometimes. And isn't Bruce not viewed as the most mentally stable person himself? "He's just as crazy as the villains he fights!" "He should be locked up in Arkham too!" Those are common criticisms these same people make. If he isn't exactly fully sane why do people treat him more harshly than the criminals he fights?

[prepmaster]

His rogues gallery being popular is really just down to the same 15-20 or so that made it into BTAS and other media. Beyond that most of his rogues gallery is standard to forgettable.

Which is still alot. People can easily name Batman's villains more than others. Most other heroes have less than 5 memorable rouges that are considered to be A lister.

Joker - the most popular DC villain.
Two Face - one of the most visually striking villains.
Riddler - fun gimmick.
Mr.Freeze - sympathetic villain since people are suckers for romance.
Bane - anti Batman.

A good portion of those who read Batman are for his villains more than the main guy. But Batman's villains are a facet or even a dark reflection of the guy so you cant just discredit the main guy. His villains are based on him. This is why i dont agree with fans of Batfam members who say their characters are more interesting than the main guy because the main guy is the one that has interesting villains that are based on him while Batfam members dont have that. Batman being this broody hero actually works in favor of his villains who like to have more fun.

[Restingvoice]

What do you mean the richness is barely talked about, one of his most famous quotes is the "genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist" line from the 1st Avengers movie. If anything, I feel like Iron Man's wealth is seen as more important to his overall character than Batman's wealth is to his. Bruce is a way more effective crime fighter than Tony if both were stripped of all their money and tech. Bruce would still have his peak human physical abilities, detective skills and fighting skills. Those Iron Man suits aren't cheap.

The argument of "white guy beating up the mentally ill" is such a stupid one, I'm black and I have to ask, what the **** does his race have to do with anything? Is being white inherently bad or problematic now or something? If so, I must've not gotten that memo. And characters are race swapped all the time, if Bruce was made black or Asian or another race would him beating up criminals with mental health issues all of a sudden be ok?

He's a freaking comic book character, it's an action genre, of course he's gonna get physical. No one wants to see Batman sit the Joker down and beat him via a debate. As Seige said, a lot of his villains are mentally ill in a cartoonish "I'm kuh-waaazy!" way anyway. Hell, Joker even has the "lolz I'm actually super sane" BS sometimes. And isn't Bruce not viewed as the most mentally stable person himself? "He's just as crazy as the villains he fights!" "He should be locked up in Arkham too!" Those are common criticisms these same people make. If he isn't exactly fully sane why do people treat him more harshly than the criminals he fights?

No I meant on the reason why people like him. The fans don't talk about him being rich. It's about the actor, and the personality of Tony Stark.

"Is being white inherently bad or problematic now or something" and "white guy beating up the mentally ill"- This is more like a meme. I don't know if there are people who genuinely believe that, but from what I've seen it's more like... either a troll post, or someone who don't read comics tweets about it, and then it getting rounds because it sounds funny and meme-y, or support their dislike of Batman based on what they already dislike about him based on what they read on the internet.

Wait... no... I do read some people who genuinely believe that rich white dude automatically bad, to the point where they say Bruce's trauma doesn't matter, because Jason Todd who's poor and younger is more valid, and like you, the one who pointed out how messed up that is, is black.

Oh, of course, I don't know how many people who do that.

[SiegePerilous02]

Which is still alot. People can easily name Batman's villains more than others. Most other heroes have less than 5 memorable rouges that are considered to be A lister.

Joker - the most popular DC villain.
Two Face - one of the most visually striking villains.
Riddler - fun gimmick.
Mr.Freeze - sympathetic villain since people are suckers for romance.
Bane - anti Batman.

A good portion of those who read Batman are for his villains more than the main guy. But Batman's villains are a facet or even a dark reflection of the guy so you cant just discredit the main guy. His villains are based on him. This is why i dont agree with fans of Batfam members who say their characters are more interesting than the main guy because the main guy is the one that has interesting villains that are based on him while Batfam members dont have that. Batman being this broody hero actually works in favor of his villains who like to have more fun.

Compared to the sheer volume of villains he has, that amount is pretty much a drop in the pond. And not all of them are consistently depicted with any depth. Mr. Freeze for example has very few good stories outside of his fantastic DCAU depiction.

Spider-Man has roughly the same number of classic foes as Batman from the Lee/Ditko/Romita era alone, plus Venom. And I would say they are more consistent as fleshed out characters than Batmans rogues. A lot of the other major DC heroes could have a similar amount of villains as well regarded, but it's a self fulfilling prophecy that they Don't because they barely bother with any of them

[prepmaster]

Compared to the sheer volume of villains he has, that amount is pretty much a drop in the pond. And not all of them are consistently depicted with any depth. Mr. Freeze for example has very few good stories outside of his fantastic DCAU depiction.

Mr.Freeze being a sympethetic villain works in other mediums like in Arkham games. Not just Mr.Freeze, Scarecrow is considered to be another villain that relies on gimmick more than actually having good stories. Batman has like 8 decades of publishing and his rogues gallery is considered to be at least top 2 in comics so any flaw you can find in Batman's rogues gallery is found pretty much in every other hero's rogues gallery. Batman used to fight against vampires and other mythical creatures but you dont see them being reused because they dont have good story as villains against Batman like other Batman's rouges.

Spider-Man has roughly the same number of classic foes as Batman from the Lee/Ditko/Romita era alone, plus Venom. And I would say they are more consistent as fleshed out characters than Batmans rogues.

Spider-Man's villains motives are greed or hatred of Spider-Man. Black Cat is inspired by Catwoman, people say Goblin is mixture of Lex & Joker.

A lot of the other major DC heroes could have a similar amount of villains as well regarded, but it's a self fulfilling prophecy that they Don't because they barely bother with any of them

Because in modern days, writers are more interested in creating new villains than developing old ones. Its just that Batman's top villains are interesting or have become popular that writers have to use them instead of creating new villains. These villains draw sales.

[Gaius]

Honestly, I'd say modern Lex and Joker are more rip-offs of Green Goblin than then vice-versa. Lex wasn't a corrupt businessmen until long after Osborn and Joker as some chaotic evil that exists solely to ruin Bat's life seems more truer to the Goblin and Spider-Man's relationship than the earlier versions of Joker. and Batman

[prepmaster]

Honestly, I'd say modern Lex and Joker are more rip-offs of Green Goblin than then vice-versa. Lex wasn't a corrupt businessmen until long after Osborn and Joker as some chaotic evil that exists solely to ruin Bat's life seems more truer to the Goblin and Spider-Man's relationship than the earlier versions of Joker. and Batman

I agree. Joker is written as Bat arch nemesis. In earlier days, Joker's motives for comitting crimes were not about Batman