Marauders 18 - Consequences *Spoilers*

[Kingdom X]

Xavier says:"two assault teams waiting to converge on our position"
Magneto says: "two weapons teams...in case things didn't go the way he wanted"
When Scott confronted them in the hallway and they already had their weapons drawn.

Therefore, not "security detail"
I think some need to go back and re-read the issue.

Exactly. It’s really crazy to see how much fans twist details to fit their narrative sometimes. Also I don’t know why some of y’all are so pressed to defend the racist ass humans who would kill mutants within a heartbeat if they got a chance.

[Rev9]

Xavier says:"two assault teams waiting to converge on our position"
Magneto says: "two weapons teams...in case things didn't go the way he wanted"
When Scott confronted them in the hallway and they already had their weapons drawn.

Therefore, not "security detail"
I think some need to go back and re-read the issue.

I know what Magneto and Xavier said, I just don't think after the way Emma was pushing thoughts at the UN ,that Xavier can be relied on.Obviously it is the way the lines are written to carry that message but drawn weapons in a scenario like this does not directly mean they were there to assault.This is the first international meeting by heads of state with Krakoan leadership it just speaks of heightened caution to be armed to the teeth in case of anything.I mean if Emma's influence at the UN was suspected by humanity ,it stands to reason they would put mental buffers on not only the security team but the delegates too.I guess my misgivings will only be put to bed when in later issues we get more information of someone taking credit for that attack team. As it stands there was not a single exchange of words to make it unequivocally an 'attack' , the whole Scott blasting everyone and Gorgon monologuing the entire confrontation comes across as more of mutant provocation at that point. Re reading the issue does not make it look different for me ,it leaves a lot to the imagination to fill in the blanks in the absence of dialogue and they way I saw it keeping it grounded in realism,I see them as security detail more than anything else

[Omega Alpha]

I know what Magneto and Xavier said, I just don't think after the way Emma was pushing thoughts at the UN ,that Xavier can be relied on.Obviously it is the way the lines are written to carry that message but drawn weapons in a scenario like this does not directly mean they were there to assault.This is the first international meeting by heads of state with Krakoan leadership it just speaks of heightened caution to be armed to the teeth in case of anything.I mean if Emma's influence at the UN was suspected by humanity ,it stands to reason they would put mental buffers on not only the security team but the delegates too.I guess my misgivings will only be put to bed when in later issues we get more information of someone taking credit for that attack team. As it stands there was not a single exchange of words to make it unequivocally an 'attack' , the whole Scott blasting everyone and Gorgon monologuing the entire confrontation comes across as more of mutant provocation at that point. Re reading the issue does not make it look different for me ,it leaves a lot to the imagination to fill in the blanks in the absence of dialogue and they way I saw it keeping it grounded in realism,I see them as security detail more than anything else

Nope, you're twisting things to make a false narrative. The issue clearly and undeniably shows them attacking Cyclops and Kraken, and Xavier couldn't have manipulated them because they had psi-shields. Just admit you're wrong or that you don't care about the truth and prefer your own fake version.

[Rev9]

Nope, you're twisting things to make a false narrative. The issue clearly and undeniably shows them attacking Cyclops and Kraken, and Xavier couldn't have manipulated them because they had psi-shields. Just admit you're wrong or that you don't care about the truth and prefer your own fake version.

It's not a version I made up, it is an inference both from lack of dialogue on panel and taking cues from previous issues, plus I am open minded, if in later issues a villain claims the attack I'll take it because that will substantiate the narrative. It is even possible that it is what you say it is but it works if we accept a yet unforseen external agent.If we assume that it was a strike team hired by the world leaders, then it is so high risk ( because you are putting yourself in the middle of a firefight with immortals or metal manipulators) that it is implausible for such powerful individuals to be that reckless with their own lives.

[Frobisher]

I’m not sure I was expecting a “there were fine folks on both sides” talk about an assassination attempt, and yet here we are.

[loke13]

I read the issue, but as I said it looks more like they were security detail on the separate floors, that is standard fare for such summits.I did not see the teams attacking ,seriously that to me looked like a patrol that was interrupted by Cyke,he was the one blasting ,in self defense to be sure but he seemed to be the one launching a pre-emptive strike. Even if that strike team was attacking and accepting casualties, that seems incredibly poor writing, unless the stroke team is working for an external agent who wanted Leaders dead in the same room as the X-Men leaders(I'll wait for someone to take blame for that op in the future)I don't see how that team was not the leaders' security and to say those world leaders were suicidal stretches credulity

Jfc go back and read the issue lol I can't believe you're trying to make it seem like the assassination hit squad that was planning on killing members of The Quiet council at a peace Summit was somehow run-of-the-mill security detail that was provoked by the mutants.

Also we already know who was in charge of the attack at the economic Summit it was the same character from House of X who brought a gun to the meeting with Magneto the one with a very clear bias towards Krakoa.

[Omega Alpha]

I’m not sure I was expecting a “there were fine folks on both sides” talk about an assassination attempt, and yet here we are.

I'm sure there very nice people on both sides of the Spanish Inquisition. And when the Mongols came up? Lots of nice folks over there.

[Rev9]

Jfc go back and read the issue lol I can't believe you're trying to make it seem like the assassination hit squad that was planning on killing members of The Quiet council at a peace Summit was somehow run-of-the-mill security detail that was provoked by the mutants.

Also we already know who was in charge of the attack at the economic Summit it was the same character from House of X who brought a gun to the meeting with Magneto the one with a very clear bias towards Krakoa.

I think you should go back to the panel in HoX1,that delegate Reilly Marshall is ex SHIELD and SWORD that is a supra government or at the very least US government agency ,it is not a terrorist organisation.Plus on Krakoa he did nothing, he had a firearm on his person for personal security.If he wanted to kill Magneto ,I believe the Cookoo girl would reveal his plan ,she simply revealed "Oh he also has a weapon of some sort.Would you like me to do something about that .Sir?' then Magneto disarms an undrawn weapon.That is not an attack.It is there on panel.I don't know how you can read that as bias when a mind reader gives no such hint.

When at the meeting, Magneto's own words do not contextualise this as an attack he says 'He had two teams spirited away on the floors above and below is in case things didn't go the way he wanted' .Those very words do not mean the attack was priority , the team was there in case things didn't go the way the leaders wanted or expected or Reilly for that matter charged with their security (with his SHIELD/SWORD credentials)That can be read in many ways but certainly the emphasis is the team being primarily defensive (hence the telepathy blockers again likely from Reilly being mentally breached on Krakoa) and reactionary responding to the situation if the mutants threatened the leaders. So I don't get where all this claiming that Xavier's words mean an attack was imminent if at best the team was defensive and reactionary as per Magneto's explanation.

Which leads us to mutants threatening the leaders .There is no doubt an accusatory tone especially from Xavier.First Xavier accuses Reilly that it took a month for him to send assassins to Krakoa, If Xavier knows something we don't laying such an accusation without proof is not something you do on such a forum.Xavier of all people,knows better.. Reilly even says 'We didn't send anyone to kill you' he was referring to Xavier's assasination on Krakoa and he was telling the truth as that was Xeno. So unless Reilly is with Xeno and was lying I take him at his word, in the absence of Xavier's proof to lay such a huge accusation at a delegate's feet. Xavier further lead with the question that Reilly wanted him killed that moment, Reilly paused and countered with a leading statement 'you've basically admitted to everyone here that you see the world as yours.' There are three options 1.he paused because he felt in the face of mutant veiled and open threats he as prominent security liaison had to have the team ready for the worst after his experience on Krakoa with Magneto calling him a wolf and basically saying mutants are gods on earth this is underscored when Xavier does not deny Reilly's takeaway but doubles down that humanity should.. just evolve and adapt to the status quo of mutant supremacy. 2 He just was exasperated by the accusations that he had nothing to do with or 3 his mind was being pushed and he was voicing Xavier's mental suggestions. Obviously the first two are more likely but with the jingoism being thrown around who knows if option three is off the table after what Emma did at the UN.Moreover I think it was an X-Force issue where Xavier was mentioned to be aware of the attempt on his life beforehand ,if not outright setting up his death to motivate Krakoa.So this Xavier even by his own admission operates with a new MO.

To me without proof that Reilly is in with the terrorists like Xeno we have accusations, belligerence and manipulation of the narrative on the part of the mutant leadership which does not build goodwill. If Reilly is one with Xeno I'll admit my interpretation is wrong but that summit in the context of events before it paints the picture I see so far.

[Omega Alpha]

I think you should go back to the panel in HoX1,that delegate Reilly Marshall is ex SHIELD and SWORD that is a supra government or at the very least US government agency ,it is not a terrorist organisation.Plus on Krakoa he did nothing, he had a firearm on his person for personal security.If he wanted to kill Magneto ,I believe the Cookoo girl would reveal his plan ,she simply revealed "Oh he also has a weapon of some sort.Would you like me to do something about that .Sir?' then Magneto disarms an undrawn weapon.That is not an attack.It is there on panel.I don't know how you can read that as bias when a mind reader gives no such hint.

When at the meeting, Magneto's own words do not contextualise this as an attack he says 'He had two teams spirited away on the floors above and below is in case things didn't go the way he wanted' .Those very words do not mean the attack was priority , the team was there in case things didn't go the way the leaders wanted or expected or Reilly for that matter charged with their security (with his SHIELD/SWORD credentials)That can be read in many ways but certainly the emphasis is the team being primarily defensive (hence the telepathy blockers again likely from Reilly being mentally breached on Krakoa) and reactionary responding to the situation if the mutants threatened the leaders. So I don't get where all this claiming that Xavier's words mean an attack was imminent if at best the team was defensive and reactionary as per Magneto's explanation.

Which leads us to mutants threatening the leaders .There is no doubt an accusatory tone especially from Xavier.First Xavier accuses Reilly that it took a month for him to send assassins to Krakoa, If Xavier knows something we don't laying such an accusation without proof is not something you do on such a forum.Xavier of all people,knows better.. Reilly even says 'We didn't send anyone to kill you' he was referring to Xavier's assasination on Krakoa and he was telling the truth as that was Xeno. So unless Reilly is with Xeno and was lying I take him at his word, in the absence of Xavier's proof to lay such a huge accusation at a delegate's feet. Xavier further lead with the question that Reilly wanted him killed that moment, Reilly paused and countered with a leading statement 'you've basically admitted to everyone here that you see the world as yours.' There are three options 1.he paused because he felt in the face of mutant veiled and open threats he as prominent security liaison had to have the team ready for the worst after his experience on Krakoa with Magneto calling him a wolf and basically saying mutants are gods on earth this is underscored when Xavier does not deny Reilly's takeaway but doubles down that humanity should.. just evolve and adapt to the status quo of mutant supremacy. 2 He just was exasperated by the accusations that he had nothing to do with or 3 his mind was being pushed and he was voicing Xavier's mental suggestions. Obviously the first two are more likely but with the jingoism being thrown around who knows if option three is off the table after what Emma did at the UN.Moreover I think it was an X-Force issue where Xavier was mentioned to be aware of the attempt on his life beforehand ,if not outright setting up his death to motivate Krakoa.So this Xavier even by his own admission operates with a new MO.

To me without proof that Reilly is in with the terrorists like Xeno we have accusations, belligerence and manipulation of the narrative on the part of the mutant leadership which does not build goodwill. If Reilly is one with Xeno I'll admit my interpretation is wrong but that summit in the context of events before it paints the picture I see so far.

Again, you're pushing things, and in some cases, blatantly lying to try to force a "both sides" narrative. Reilly expected to meet Xavier in the Krakoa meeting, not Magneto. He didn't use the gun because Xavier was the target, plus a gun against Magneto is useless. In fact, the British sent as representative not a diplomat, but a MI6 agent simply to stop Reilly if it came to it because they knew about the plan. And, of course, if you think American agencies don't commit terrorism, you're unfamiliar with the history of the CIA.

And once again you're pushing a "both sides" narrative when we are told, without room for interpretation, that this was an assassination attempt by Reilly. It's clearly you're in bad faith here because you don't like Krakoa.

[loke13]

Again, you're pushing things, and in some cases, blatantly lying to try to force a "both sides" narrative. Reilly expected to meet Xavier in the Krakoa meeting, not Magneto. He didn't use the gun because Xavier was the target, plus a gun against Magneto is useless. In fact, the British sent as representative not a diplomat, but a MI6 agent simply to stop Reilly if it came to it because they knew about the plan. And, of course, if you think American agencies don't commit terrorism, you're unfamiliar with the history of the CIA.

And once again you're pushing a "both sides" narrative when we are told, without room for interpretation, that this was an assassination attempt by Reilly. It's clearly you're in bad faith here because you don't like Krakoa.

Thank you. It's fascinating see people contort the narrative to fit their agenda when there are plenty of legitimate critiques to be had about Krakoa.

[Rev9]

Again, you're pushing things, and in some cases, blatantly lying to try to force a "both sides" narrative. Reilly expected to meet Xavier in the Krakoa meeting, not Magneto. He didn't use the gun because Xavier was the target, plus a gun against Magneto is useless. In fact, the British sent as representative not a diplomat, but a MI6 agent simply to stop Reilly if it came to it because they knew about the plan. And, of course, if you think American agencies don't commit terrorism, you're unfamiliar with the history of the CIA.

And once again you're pushing a "both sides" narrative when we are told, without room for interpretation, that this was an assassination attempt by Reilly. It's clearly you're in bad faith here because you don't like Krakoa.

First of all while I don't despute that Walter Reppion was there to 'watch' Reilly ..the fact that they both work(ed) for national intelligence in a manner (SHIELD/STRIKE) does not mean automatically one was to stop the other, watch could mean to spy because SHIELD is American and STRIKE is British ,or it could mean 'watch his back' be his other eyes on an intelligence gathering mission ,this is standard fare for allies in intelligence and counter intelligence.I guess if you have panel proof from for example Excalibur of the mission parameters that indeed Reilly was there to kill Xavier ,you are welcome to share as I dont read Excalibur. Because being a top tier intelligence or security official and carrying a gun with you is standard expectation,to claim it is an automatic assassination weapon is ridiculous. Though even so if that is your logical hunch if he was there to see Xavier ,the telepath would have told Magneto the full scope of his intent, she didn't. However let us assume for arguments sake Xavier knew and was referring to his attempted hit and not wrongly attributing the Xeno hit to him.My problem with the accusation is two fold .First the problem with that entire Davos meeting is Xavier if he wanted to single out Reilly would have /could have set up an entire meeting with him only or easily telepathically talked to him to let him know that he was onto him but by addressing all the leaders he blanketed his personal rebuke to Reilly to all the people there which comes across as undiplomatic and at that level putting accusations on the wrong people does Krakoa no good. Which is why I see these kind of threats by Magneto and Xavier as intentional,reckless and provocative.The second problem is the follow on disingenuous notion that all at that meeting were 'bigots' you mention the CIA ,they have bloody hands sure and while I don't excuse their methodology their purpose and ethos is not driven by bigotry. This is what set off the entire debate because people kept saying the team in Davos or the leaders in Davos or Reilly act the way they do because they are 'bigots' -not at all! They are powerful individuals at a primal level looking to keep their power, but also compelled by their duty as citizens of high rank to look out for the welfare of their people-not petty personal interest but national interest, nations have a right to do that, that is why they have armies and intelligence agencies ,one cannot use 'bigotry' as some blanket statement to label every single person with. I am surprised by this conclusion by some on here.I do actually love the X-Men they are my favourite superheroes and I like Hickman's take to mature the conversation from merely misfits fighting for recognition to building a full nation,with language, culture and international standing ,but at that level of discussion we have to stop clinging to bigotry as the all encompassing safety net ,because at the level of international relations or diplomacy it doesn't really fly it is actually insulting to call a diplomat or political leader a bigot just because you don't come to an agreement it's even worse if that kind of rebuke is directed at those not privy to the facts of what Xavier was going on about.

Which brings me to the implausibility again, unless all leaders at that meeting are working in concert which is highly unlikely we have to take the team as their personal security detail.It is very implausible that Reilly would hijack their security detail to use them as cannon fodder to not only leave the delegates defense less but put them in direct harm's way so recklessly much less have his own team there with other world leaders' bodyguards/security entourage and intel being clueless.As I said it just stretches credulity

[Toonstrack]

Gonna be honest . This book is starting to bore me to tears. Maybe its me. Maybe its because I'm not a huge fan of anyone on the cast, they are just there except for Bishop and to an extent Iceman(neither of whom have much to do)
Maybe its just that nothing has wowed me, its all been decent, good even, but no "wow". The art is nice I guess. The action is.... ok. I actually like some of the stories being told. Its just the whole thing feels very.... vanilla. With the main X book I was getting "wow" moments in a few issues like issue 9. With this.... I can't really think of anything really. Emma just annoys me at this point, she may as well be running the whole island. I get that she's supposed to have an air of superiority but... idk. Storm didn't seem to have anything to do on this book and they got rid of her, so that's that I guess. I like the political intrigue of the current arc, I like the madripoor kiddies engaging in a game of chess, but nothing is really blowing me away.

I'll give it a few more issues I guess. Like I said I'm enjoying the stories but.. idk lol

[Rev9]

Gonna be honest . This book is starting to bore me to tears. Maybe its me. Maybe its because I'm not a huge fan of anyone on the cast, they are just there except for Bishop and to an extent Iceman(neither of whom have much to do)
Maybe its just that nothing has wowed me, its all been decent, good even, but no "wow". The art is nice I guess. The action is.... ok. I actually like some of the stories being told. Its just the whole thing feels very.... vanilla. With the main X book I was getting "wow" moments in a few issues like issue 9. With this.... I can't really think of anything really. Emma just annoys me at this point, she may as well be running the whole island. I get that she's supposed to have an air of superiority but... idk. Storm didn't seem to have anything to do on this book and they got rid of her, so that's that I guess. I like the political intrigue of the current arc, I like the madripoor kiddies engaging in a game of chess, but nothing is really blowing me away.

I'll give it a few more issues I guess. Like I said I'm enjoying the stories but.. idk lol

Agree absolutely , especially with how this book has other team members but it's all Emma,Emma,Emma..like when Kate couldn't enter the island,that had me intrigued, Shaw's machinations had me a little piqued but both teases were completely unresolved ,they just jumped on the Emma shtick of just being a prima donna, which is sad to see when Xavier recruited her I thought she would have more to her story ,perhaps counterbalancing him and Magnus in regard to soft and hard international diplomacy.None of that - she is so one dimensional that it drives me up the wall, and her fans keep saying she is this deep, complex person with a heart of gold.I honestly don't see any of that .All is see is pettiness, hubris and betrayal in her that will be the death of Krakoa, this whole I know you know,but you don't know I know Moira game she is playing is just so childish

[Toonstrack]

Thinking on it more, what have Iceman, Pyro, and Bishop even done? Bishop has like... gained some intel I guess and they've all brat up some guys but there's no actual arcs. Iceman has pretty much been there so we can see which guy he is sleeping with I dont even know why Pyro is here... Its been almost exclusively Kate and Emma with a little storm thrown in. First 12 something odd issues was Kate getting convinced to join the club and then she dies and we get some emotional stuff from Emma and Storm,then she gets resurected and they beat shaw to a pilp and life goes on. None of the other characters have seemingly had any real emotional arc and the original premise of the book which was bringing in lost mutants seems to have been completely sidelined in favor of more Emma girlboss adventures.

[The Twilight Mexican]

Again, you're pushing things, and in some cases, blatantly lying to try to force a "both sides" narrative. Reilly expected to meet Xavier in the Krakoa meeting, not Magneto. He didn't use the gun because Xavier was the target, plus a gun against Magneto is useless. In fact, the British sent as representative not a diplomat, but a MI6 agent simply to stop Reilly if it came to it because they knew about the plan. And, of course, if you think American agencies don't commit terrorism, you're unfamiliar with the history of the CIA.

And once again you're pushing a "both sides" narrative when we are told, without room for interpretation, that this was an assassination attempt by Reilly. It's clearly you're in bad faith here because you don't like Krakoa.

I'm not crazy about Krakoa either and I can tell you there's no room for any other conclusion: when the U.S. ambassador says "What did you think we would do?" he's admitting to what Xavier is accusing him of.

Discussions like this that degenerate into bad-faith attempts to divorce the story from the storytelling -- and bludgeon "technically possible (but not really)" twists of wording into the place of what is actually said -- aren't worth anyone's time.

Watch me ignore my own advice, though:

Which brings me to the implausibility again, unless all leaders at that meeting are working in concert which is highly unlikely we have to take the team as their personal security detail.It is very implausible that Reilly would hijack their security detail to use them as cannon fodder to not only leave the delegates defense less but put them in direct harm's way so recklessly much less have his own team there with other world leaders' bodyguards/security entourage and intel being clueless.As I said it just stretches credulity

The Wakandan attache didn't know the U.S. ambassador was expecting armed agents to arrive, and one of the other dignitaries chides him for acting unilaterally. The ambassador’s response to that is to try justifying his actions to the other dignitaries on the basis of "what they are" and that Xavier, et. al. can't be trusted.

It's a conversation, not words floating in from the unknown and destined for nowhere in particular.

The U.S. ambassador may genuinely have not have had anything to do with the assassination attempt on Xavier in "X-Force" #1 ... but he admits twice to attempting an assassination at the summit in "X-Men" #4. You can't try invoking plausibility as an argument while remarking that the ambassador of the United States of America would respond with "What did you think we would do?" to an accusation of attempting to assassinate a foreign head of state ... were that not at least an accurate account of what had occurred =P