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  1. #16
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Exactly which part is false or Propaganda?
    "Tim Fox is being pushed through because of the color of his skin" is baloney. If they just wanted a black Batman for Future State they could've chosen Duke Thomas or Luke Fox. Instead, they went with Jace because he allowed them to tell a specific narrative about his Batman that the other choices couldn't provide.

    And talking about the "political climate" of America, dude, you live in the UK.

  2. #17
    Sector 2814 poroto678's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I don't feel like "some military background" should be enough, but that was also how they explained it with Kate ...
    But I guess like in her case they are just going to ignore that basically everybody else in the Batfamily has way more experience in crime fighting than him.

    Seems still wired to me that everyone in the Batfamily seems OK with him taking up the mantle, especially with his status as the Black Sheep of the Fox Family, which is something at least Dick should be aware of.
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  3. #18
    Mighty Member Katana500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I don't feel like "some military background" should be enough, but that was also how they explained it with Kate ...
    But I guess like in her case they are just going to ignore that basically everybody else in the Batfamily has way more experience in crime fighting than him.

    Seems still wired to me that everyone in the Batfamily seems OK with him taking up the mantle, especially with his status as the Black Sheep of the Fox Family, which is something at least Dick should be aware of.

    I'm going to assume Tim Fox is special forces or part of some other elite army unit. That would explain his training and why he is badass enough to become Batman during Future State. Special Forces in real world are impressive enough but im sure in the DC Universe they have access to even more technology are training. Im pretty sure Kate wasn't just some army cadet either. If I recall I think she excelled and had a very promising career lined up before being kicked out.

    We haven't seen any of the Batfamily react to Tim in the present but in Future State things are so desperate with the Magistrate I think they are probably just happy with all the help they can get. Dick would have worked with Luke as Batwing so im sure is sympathetic to Jace and would be open to him trying to help.

    Alot of the current batfamily also suited up without Batman's permission initially including Barbara, Tim, Steph, Kate etc and all later earned the right. So I think it would be rather hypocritical for them to be against Jace for taking the symbol.
    Last edited by Katana500; 02-21-2021 at 10:03 AM.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I don't feel like "some military background" should be enough, but that was also how they explained it with Kate ...
    But I guess like in her case they are just going to ignore that basically everybody else in the Batfamily has way more experience in crime fighting than him.

    Seems still wired to me that everyone in the Batfamily seems OK with him taking up the mantle, especially with his status as the Black Sheep of the Fox Family, which is something at least Dick should be aware of.
    Having a crime fighting experience isn't really a requirement for wearing a Bat. A lot of them like Babs, Kate, Cass, and Steph just starts wearing it when they start debuting in a Bat costume. Cass and Steph follows Babs instead of Bruce. (edit: oh Katana500 already said it)

    Also, as far as I can tell, Tim Fox's status is still the new guy who wears a Batman costume. He still defers to Dick, the de facto leader of the Resistance, looking for him, asking for advice.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana500 View Post
    I'm going to assume Tim Fox is special forces or part of some other elite army unit. That would explain his training and why he is badass enough to become Batman during Future State. Special Forces in real world are impressive enough but im sure in the DC Universe they have access to even more technology are training. Im pretty sure Kate wasn't just some army cadet either. If I recall I think she excelled and had a very promising career lined up before being kicked out.
    Speacial Forces in DC comics are typically way below the Bat Family Members.
    I mean the Colony was essentially a special forces unit that tried to copy Batmans methods and training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Having a crime fighting experience isn't really a requirement for wearing a Bat. A lot of them like Babs, Kate, Cass, and Steph just starts wearing it when they start debuting in a Bat costume. Cass and Steph follows Babs instead of Bruce. (edit: oh Katana500 already said it)
    There is a differnce between Batgirl/Batwoman/Batwing/Robin and Batman, simply because Batman is usually the Leader of the Batfamily.

    And again I'm not sure how much of Tim Fox old Stories are still canon (and I'm anyway barely remember them), but even the new comics still confirm that he was kind of screw-up. So I think Dick and the others should question if he is the right guy for the job.
    Last edited by Aahz; 02-21-2021 at 11:49 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    "Tim Fox is being pushed through because of the color of his skin" is baloney. If they just wanted a black Batman for Future State they could've chosen Duke Thomas or Luke Fox. Instead, they went with Jace because he allowed them to tell a specific narrative about his Batman that the other choices couldn't provide.
    That applies maybe for choosing Tim over Duke and Luke, but not for choosing a Black Batman.

    Look at the comics DC is publishing at the moment there is clearly a focus on "black centric" stories at the moment.

    In Future state there is iirc a black version of every one of the Big Six with exception of Superman, than you have stuff like "Other History of the DCU" and "Truce and Justice".

  7. #22
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    That applies maybe for choosing Tim over Duke and Luke, but not for choosing a Black Batman.

    Look at the comics DC is publishing at the moment there is clearly a focus on "black centric" stories at the moment.

    In Future state there is iirc a black version of every one of the Big Six with exception of Superman, than you have stuff like "Other History of the DCU" and "Truce and Justice".
    And the problem is...?

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    "Tim Fox is being pushed through because of the color of his skin" is baloney. If they just wanted a black Batman for Future State they could've chosen Duke Thomas or Luke Fox. Instead, they went with Jace because he allowed them to tell a specific narrative about his Batman that the other choices couldn't provide.

    And talking about the "political climate" of America, dude, you live in the UK.
    The fact that Ridley choose Tim over the other Black Bat characters doesn't in anyway disprove or counter the fact that DC specifically wanted to create a Black batman.

    It doesn't disprove the fact that Tim is currently in print because DC wanted a Black Batman.

    Ridley choosing Tim over Luke or Signal allows him to put a POC behind the cowl without messing with 2 of their existing POc who currently are holding down unique mantles. Why sacrifice something that is rare within the bat franchise. Non-Batman/Robin types [Bat-iron man and a bat with powers who's also got the role of Gotham's daytime protector]

    =Tim has less baggage so he's got most of the pros of a brand new character without being one. His background is vague enough to allow flexibility.

    What does living in the UK have to do with being aware of the gross level of racism in the US?
    Do you think that other nations aren't aware of how often innocent Black people are gunned down by police or have the police called on them . Do you believe we don't know how it's a different reality, different rules, different treatment for POC or that we don't know that there's a need for more representation in all media?

    There was nothing false no propaganda in my comment only reality.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    And the problem is...?
    why do you assume there is a problem? Stating facts isn't necessarily criticism.

  10. #25
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    The fact that Ridley choose Tim over the other Black Bat characters doesn't in anyway disprove or counter the fact that DC specifically wanted to create a Black batman.

    It doesn't disprove the fact that Tim is currently in print because DC wanted a Black Batman.

    Ridley choosing Tim over Luke or Signal allows him to put a POC behind the cowl without messing with 2 of their existing POc who currently are holding down unique mantles. Why sacrifice something that is rare within the bat franchise. Non-Batman/Robin types [Bat-iron man and a bat with powers who's also got the role of Gotham's daytime protector]

    =Tim has less baggage so he's got most of the pros of a brand new character without being one. His background is vague enough to allow flexibility.

    What does living in the UK have to do with being aware of the gross level of racism in the US?
    Do you think that other nations aren't aware of how often innocent Black people are gunned down by police or have the police called on them . Do you believe we don't know how it's a different reality, different rules, different treatment for POC or that we don't know that there's a need for more representation in all media?

    There was nothing false no propaganda in my comment only reality.
    I agree, actually.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    That applies maybe for choosing Tim over Duke and Luke, but not for choosing a Black Batman.

    Look at the comics DC is publishing at the moment there is clearly a focus on "black centric" stories at the moment.

    In Future state there is iirc a black version of every one of the Big Six with exception of Superman, than you have stuff like "Other History of the DCU" and "Truce and Justice".
    Excluding Tim and Aqualad-most of those folks were already around in some form.

    Nubia who has a OGN coming out tomorrow.

    Shilo Norman was Mr Miracle 2 back in the 90s for a time.

    https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dan-didio-dc-comics/

    Den Of Geek, talking to John Ridley, saw him talk about the origins of The Next Batman. Tim Fox – now Jace Fox – who will be getting his own series in Batman: Second Son, appearing in Batman: Black And White and Future State: Gotham.

    I was working on The Other History and the second series of The American Way and I just felt very fortunate to be doing any of that. And at first I got these emails that Dan DiDio wanted to talk to me but I had to sign a nondisclosure agreement. But there was some weird thing where they were having trouble emailing it and this was prior to the pandemic, so finally they got all frustrated and were like, "Dan wants to have lunch with you." We sat down and he said, "Oh we want you to write Batman." That would have been tremendously cool in itself, but they said, "We want to approach Batman in a different way. We want Batman to be a character of color. But he's going to be Batman. It's not going to be an Elseworlds story, it's not going to be, you know, the Dark Knight having his back broken. It's not going to be temporary."
    American Way volume 2 came out in 2017. So this was in the making for at least 4-5 years.

  12. #27
    Spectacular Member bat1987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Excluding Tim and Aqualad-most of those folks were already around in some form.

    Nubia who has a OGN coming out tomorrow.

    Shilo Norman was Mr Miracle 2 back in the 90s for a time.

    https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dan-didio-dc-comics/



    American Way volume 2 came out in 2017. So this was in the making for at least 4-5 years.
    Oh wow. That must've been when the original 5g idea came around. I'm sure Tim will be Batman in some shape or form, I'm assuming it's gonna be Miles/Peter type of thing.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Speacial Forces in DC comics are typically way below the Bat Family Members.
    I mean the Colony was essentially a special forces unit that tried to copy Batmans methods and training.

    There is a differnce between Batgirl/Batwoman/Batwing/Robin and Batman, simply because Batman is usually the Leader of the Batfamily.

    And again I'm not sure how much of Tim Fox old Stories are still canon (and I'm anyway barely remember them), but even the new comics still confirm that he was kind of screw-up. So I think Dick and the others should question if he is the right guy for the job.
    Yeah except the leader isn't any of the Batman this time. It's Nightwing, and the rest of the fam already follows Nightwing. So that doesn't matter. Dick did question him, even tried sending him away to save him, but he wants to stay and fight, so he accepts the help.

    As for his status in later stories like the Justice League, I don't know, but they're all new generations of heroes so I just assume in the interim, just like the other new gen, he proves himself.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Excluding Tim and Aqualad-most of those folks were already around in some form.

    Nubia who has a OGN coming out tomorrow.
    The Black Speedster is also new.

    And if this characters are new, or were just (like for example Nubia) rarely used untill recently, doesn't change that there is clearly a lot more focus on black characters at the moment than usually.

  15. #30

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    It would've been cool if Tim was a former recruit for the Colony.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 02-23-2021 at 03:30 PM.

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