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Thread: Best and Worst

  1. #1
    X-Men fan since '92 Odd Rödney's Avatar
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    Default Best and Worst

    It should come as no surprise for you to learn that I am an enthusiast of Marvel's merry mutants, the hated & feared X-Men! Sometimes a bloke like me gets to thinking "who is the absolute worst writer these beloved characters have had to endure?" You might wonder that too. "Matthew Rosenberg!" you exclaim, conjuring horrifying memories of his recent torturous tenure on the books. And while you might have a point, you are, unfortunately, technically incorrect (which is the worst kind of incorrect).

    The worst writer, by far, in my opinion, is Chuck Austen. You could prove it to yourself by reading his shockingly awful run on the book but those of us who have done so now have scorched retinas and belly pain that never disappears. This new Krakoa stuff though? For me it is the best the X-Men books have been in a long time and I’m really enjoying it. I really liked Carey’s stuff too.

    So who, in your ever so humble opinion, has written the best X-Men stuff and who has written the worst and, more importantly, why do you hold that opinion?
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  2. #2

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    Austen for Worst: Aggressive stupidity (as in, didn't bother to do basic research on characters or on religious concepts he built an entire plot around), deciding to blatantly take out his daddy issues on the characters, and being a royal jerk about readers daring to dislike his work.

    Best I'll have to think on. There's been a lot of good work over the decades.
    Last edited by Anduinel; 03-08-2021 at 03:58 PM.

  3. #3
    Incredible Member etrumble's Avatar
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    I have a top 3 X-men writers(that are commonly acclaimed so nothing new here). I have to see how Hickman finishes to pass judgement but like the ideas thus far.

    Claremont - he set the stage for the rest
    David - Made me really enjoy X-Factor for the first time
    Morrison - helped change the X-men after getting stale

    Worst:
    Austen - yes, trite but true. Still think Azazel was one of the more dumb ideas for '90s X-men

  4. #4
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    Austen is the easy pick for worst but there's other viable contenders. That whole era was just awful though. Casey before Austen stuck then ..To me though Morrison is the worst or close to it. It was never really X-Men and it felt it did more long term damage. Just things that were dumb and made no sense. Adultery. Lion Beast. Genosha. Xorneto. Cassandra Nova. Just a bunch of yuck.

    Rosenberg is there for sure though I think editorial put him in a bad spot.

    Besides that definitely Bendis.The O5 thing was a bad idea and went way too long. Most of it like most of his writing went nowhere. Ugh he even was part of House of M.

    It feels like until the current run there hasn't been good writing in a long time. Carey was pretty good.

    Still have soft spots for the Lobdell/Nicieza 90's stuff. Probably wrote my favorite stuff by far. Especially Aoge of Apocalypse.

    The Seagle/Kelly run I think is underrated and hampered by editorial but should have went longer.

    And of course I have to mention Claremont even if the later stuff wasn't as good.

    It's weird to me some of Claremont's later characters get ignored by new writers. You telling me nobody can find anything for Lifeguard? Or some of the New Excalibur characters like Shola, Wicked, or Freakshow? But the lame characters Bendis made get used?

    It's impressive Hickman has tried to salvage Goldballs among others but wish he'd look at some of Clarement's creations.

    I'd still put Hickman towards the favorites but it's too early really. At least he's made things interesting again.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    I think you could make a poll, which would be fascinating.

    Worst: Austen & Milligan, the back-to-back whammy that made me quit comics for almost a decade. Plots that were illogical and ill conceived. A blatant disregard for huge chunks of prior continuity. Disrespectful use of the characters in a way that was gross and permanently harmful to a few.

    Best: This is tough because nobody is perfectly flawless. Claremont, Nicieza, Liu, & Carey all come to mind as favorites.

  6. #6
    Once And Future BAMF Hellion's Avatar
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    I'm a bit limited in my answers, as I stopped reading the X-line shortly after the non-event that was Battle of the Atom and didn't start up again until Hickman took the reins.

    I would rate Bendis as the worst writer I've read. Chuck Austen's stories were bad, but bad to the point of being hilarious. Bendis's run, on the other hand, was just a boring, meandering and, ultimately, pointless mess.

    The first swath of X-comics I ever read was Claremonts run from approximately the start of the Dark Phoenix Saga through the wedding of Cyclops and Madelyn Pryor. Perhaps it's nostalgia, but I don't think the X-books have ever hit that same high for me. Kyle & Yost and Rick Remender came close with their runs, and I'm really enjoying Hickman's run as well.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whim View Post
    Rosenberg is there for sure though I think editorial put him in a bad spot.
    Yeah, I feel like there were mitigating circumstances for Rosenberg. Plus, as terrible as that last Uncanny run was, there was almost entertainment value to the escalating batshit insanity of the kill-fest. Like, at about the halfway point, you just knew someone had taken their foot off the brakes and everyone was waiting for the fireball and follow-up explanation.

  8. #8
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whim View Post

    Rosenberg is there for sure though I think editorial put him in a bad spot.
    I hated Rosenberg's run but editorial definitely was a major contributor to that. His goal was to destroy the X-men to make way for Hickman's run and if you take the context of all of what followed, his run holds up better. It served its purpose and ages better in hindsight than it did as it was being released. He's definitely not the worst writer as he did some great stuff with Astonishing X-men, New Mutants and even that Multiple Man mini. He had some interesting ideas but bc he came in at a transitional point in the X-line, he wasnt able to properly execute on the stuff he had set up. I cant fault him for that

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by etrumble View Post
    Morrison - helped change the X-men after getting stale
    He also destroyed Genosha and killed it's millions of mutants on it, for a quick shock moment without any real goal beyond hyping up his new villain no less, tried to introduce the idea that humanity has a gene which makes them die out within 20 years when a "stronger species" has shown up and turned Magneto into an insane terrorist who enjoyed the sight of normal humans walking into crematoriums (because he thought that's how people should see Magneto), among other terrible ideas and writing.

    It could be argued he set a foundations for some of the things which harmed the X-men comics over the past 20 years (constant extinction storylines, pointless mass deaths of mutants, furthering the divide between normal humans and mutants, radicalization of the X-men). So some might feel he fits on the worst list too (or on both).

    Also perhaps not THE worst, but among the bad ones in my opinion is Frank Tieri with his Weapon X series. I feel like nothing good or interesting has come out of it and all it did was to kill of a bunch of C-listers, with a concentration camp no less, while making the X-men except for Cable look like fools.
    Last edited by Grunty; 03-08-2021 at 04:56 PM.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    In terms of the worst run, I tend to think of the worst as something I found totally boring and dull, which I wouldn't say about Chuck Austen's run. While terribly flawed, I felt that was at least entertaining for the most part, if only to just laugh at the nonsense happening every other page.

    Moving on to runs I found mind-numbingly boring then: Peter Milligan and Jeff Lemire in particular come to mind. Which is a shame because Lemire is a fantastic writer generally, his Black Hammer and Descender are 2 of my favourite comics of the last few years, but his Extraordinary X-Men was just awful.

  11. #11

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    All right, for best.

    If I had to pick just one, it would of course be Claremont. His run is still the foundation the franchise is built on, his Nightcrawler is still my favorite Nightcrawler, and his is the only "must read" run of the franchise I ever revisit. As much as I'm enjoying Krakoa, I don't think I've even given House of X/Powers of X a read since those first few weeks of release.

    Beyond Claremont, though, I think we've got the strongest stable of X-Men writers in decades right now. Williams, Ayala, Wells, and Duggan are putting out some highly enjoyable books, Ewing just came on board, Hickman's ideas are mostly still landing, and there's a lot of steam left to the Krakoa concept - I don't think I've enjoyed the X-Books so much since I was first binge-reading my way through the 80's X-Men/New Mutants/Alpha Flight runs.

    I've also got a lot of appreciation for Mike Carey's time on the X-Books; he was like Ewing in that he could make concepts and characters that ought not gel work very well. And Spurrier's X-Force and X-Men: Legacy stints were just utterly enjoyable madness.

  12. #12
    Mighty Member Brian B's Avatar
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    The best is easy — Claremont, followed by Roy Thomas, then Stan Lee.

    The worst is a little too easy.

    — Chuck Austen, for creating Azazel and making him Nightcrawler’s demon dad.

    — Jeph Loeb, for Romulus and retconning Wolverine, Sabretooth and the rest into basically some kind of wolf mutants, not humans.

    — Daniel Way, for making Wolverine the creator of Nuke.

    As far as I know, all that awful crud remains Marvel canon. I’m not surprised 2 of those things happened under Alonso’s reign as editor-in-chief, but I am a little surprised that one of those happened under Joe Quesada.
    Last edited by Brian B; 03-08-2021 at 05:18 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post

    Also perhaps not THE worst, but among the bad ones in my opinion is Frank Tieri with his Weapon X series. I feel like nothing good or interesting has come out of it and all it did was to kill of a bunch of C-listers, with a concentration camp no less, while making the X-men except for Cable look like fools.
    Weapon X and The Neverland plot is one of the biggest What If's to me. It had one of the most unsatisfying nothing conclusions. Like this could have been BIG. Though it really just messed up characters with no payoff. Maverick to Agent Zero was dumb.

    So yeah a freaking concentration camp to mutants should have theoretically been as bad as Genosha or M Day ... whatever. Barely anyone of note was actually there though. The X-Men's only real involvement was Chamber later ...?

    Then the whole thing had this weird alternate timeline ending or something? The camp just disappeared. Later characters like Aurora reappear with no real ramifications it felt like.

    The other story I felt could have been a lot better was Necrosha. It had some cool build but all we really got back was Cypher who I couldn't buy as someone that can now fight. Just .... Cypher.

  14. #14
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    The Best:
    Claremont, Louise Simonson, Nicieza, and Carey

    The Worst:
    Chuck Austen, I mean... duh. But also Matt Rosenberg. And Bendis.

  15. #15
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    The best is easy — Claremont, followed by Roy Thomas, then Stan Lee.

    The worst is a little too easy.

    — Chuck Austen, for what creating Azazel and making him Nightcrawler’s demon dad, and for how he handled his mom, Mystique. Throwing a baby into a deep, deep ditch? C’mon! Mystique was never THAT bad, but she is now.
    LOL....yes she was

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