Batman in John Byrne's Man of Steel

[bat39]

Something which occurred to me recently, especially after the thread where we were all vociferously discussing the Bat-God (and Bat-Jerk) interpretation of the character.

So John Byrne's Man of Steel # 3 was the Post-COIE interpretation of Superman and Batman's first meeting (and I'm guessing its possibly back in canon now?) And it showed us a Batman who was a) antagonistic towards Superman, at least to the extent that they have starkly different philosophies and he's ready to more than stand his ground, and b) crazy-prepared...to the extent that he equipped himself with a personal force-field that would detect Superman's molecular structure when breached and trigger a bomb that would kill an innocent person (those who've read the story know who it is ), just in case Superman ever decided to come to Gotham and confront him.

I can also add a c) This Batman is pretty darn terrifying to street criminals, and basically threatens to cripple a guy he's chasing at the start of the story.

Now, none of this is really surprising in hindsight, given how Batman became over the next 35 years, but bear in mind that this was 1986! Miller's The Dark Knight Returns had just been out (actually, I'm not sure...was it all out before Byrne's MOS?) and Year One was to come the following year. So the Batman we got in MOS was far from the Batman who was typical to that era of the comics...almost like an early preview of the Post-COIE Batman and what he'd become!

Which makes me wonder...did Byrne get some inputs from Frank Miller, or anyone else working on the Batman books at the time, on what Batman's Post-COIE characterization would be like? Was he mandated to make Batman a darker figure, and someone who'd be at odds with Superman? Or was the Superman-Batman rivalry at least something Byrne decided on his own...perhaps inspired by Miller's contemporaneous work in DKR?

It just occurred to me that intentionally or unintentionally, John Byrne may well have ushered in the era of the 'Bat-God' in mainstream DC continuity, or at least previewed the concept, with that one issue!

[Adekis]

I don't know for sure, but it definitely wouldn't surprise me if Byrne was inspired by Miller's Dark Knight Returns, not just in crafting his Batman, but in crafting his Superman as well. I'm sure that DC was only too happy to let him model his Batman a little after Miller, since DKR was a huge, edgy, popular hit, and Year One was on the horizon. I do think actually the very comic booky "invisible force field" and the resolution to that particular moral crisis (since you didn't spoil it, I won't either! ) are a bit more concessions to "Batman Classic" than the rest, but overall it's still an apparently very brutal take on the character. If the force field bomb had gone down differently, yikes, probably would have been the most brutal Batman of all time.

I wish Byrne's Superman was a little less "vaguely Republican" though. That's typically pretty unique to DKR, and it didn't need to spread even as much as it did. But I digress from the darknight detective.

[bat39]

I don't know for sure, but it definitely wouldn't surprise me if Byrne was inspired by Miller's Dark Knight Returns, not just in crafting his Batman, but in crafting his Superman as well. I'm sure that DC was only too happy to let him model his Batman a little after Miller, since DKR was a huge, edgy, popular hit, and Year One was on the horizon. I do think actually the very comic booky "invisible force field" and the resolution to that particular moral crisis (since you didn't spoil it, I won't either! ) are a bit more concessions to "Batman Classic" than the rest, but overall it's still an apparently very brutal take on the character. If the force field bomb had gone down differently, yikes, probably would have been the most brutal Batman of all time.

I wish Byrne's Superman was a little less "vaguely Republican" though. That's typically pretty unique to DKR, and it didn't need to spread even as much as it did. But I digress from the darknight detective.

The comic-booky "invisible force field" is actually something very much in line with Post-COIE Batman in JLA and other books to do with the wider DCU, as well as the resolution to that. I honestly don't think there's a version of Batman who, having set up that particular mechanism, would have implemented it any other way.

But I am genuienly curious how much input Miller or others at DC had in Byrne's take on Batman in this issue. After all, technically, he was kinda introducing the Post-COIE Batman. Its a bit crazy to think that he was basically given free reign to reinterpret Batman however he wanted...but perhaps the Batman brand simply wasn't as jealously guarded back then as it is today?

[Riv86672]

Something which occurred to me recently, especially after the thread where we were all vociferously discussing the Bat-God (and Bat-Jerk) interpretation of the character.

So John Byrne's Man of Steel # 3 was the Post-COIE interpretation of Superman and Batman's first meeting (and I'm guessing its possibly back in canon now?) And it showed us a Batman who was a) antagonistic towards Superman, at least to the extent that they have starkly different philosophies and he's ready to more than stand his ground, and b) crazy-prepared...to the extent that he equipped himself with a personal force-field that would detect Superman's molecular structure when breached and trigger a bomb that would kill an innocent person (those who've read the story know who it is ), just in case Superman ever decided to come to Gotham and confront him.

I can also add a c) This Batman is pretty darn terrifying to street criminals, and basically threatens to cripple a guy he's chasing at the start of the story.

Now, none of this is really surprising in hindsight, given how Batman became over the next 35 years, but bear in mind that this was 1986! Miller's The Dark Knight Returns had just been out (actually, I'm not sure...was it all out before Byrne's MOS?) and Year One was to come the following year. So the Batman we got in MOS was far from the Batman who was typical to that era of the comics...almost like an early preview of the Post-COIE Batman and what he'd become!

Which makes me wonder...did Byrne get some inputs from Frank Miller, or anyone else working on the Batman books at the time, on what Batman's Post-COIE characterization would be like? Was he mandated to make Batman a darker figure, and someone who'd be at odds with Superman? Or was the Superman-Batman rivalry at least something Byrne decided on his own...perhaps inspired by Miller's contemporaneous work in DKR?

It just occurred to me that intentionally or unintentionally, John Byrne may well have ushered in the era of the 'Bat-God' in mainstream DC continuity, or at least previewed the concept, with that one issue!

Byrne’s just that good.
DKR and Man of Steel came out almost back to back. How much heads up Byrne had on Miller’s work ive no idea. But in hindsight it’s almost like he worked backwards from how Bats and Supes wound up when depicting how they started out.

That said, I never saw Byrne’s Superman ending up like Miller’s Superman.

[bat39]

Byrne’s just that good.
DKR and Man of Steel came out almost back to back. How much heads up Byrne had on Miller’s work ive no idea. But in hindsight it’s almost like he worked backwards from how Bats and Supes wound up when depicting how they started out.

That said, I never saw Byrne’s Superman ending up like Miller’s Superman.

That's an interesting thought.

I wouldn't be too sure about Byrne's Superman not ending up like Miller's Superman. Byrne's Superman had a bit of a patriotic aspect to him...its understated but its there. Jonathan Kent tells him how he's an American citizen and has responsibilities. He's officially appointed as a deputy by Metropolis' mayor (was Superman ever officially deputized in the comics before this?) and proactively targets Batman basically because he regards him as an outlaw vigilante and no better than a criminal to be apprehended and delivered to GCPD at first.

I mean, you can kinda imagine this guy, thirty years later, becoming the President's right-hand man to serve the 'greater good'. Which is not to say that that's necessarily how Byrne saw the future of his take on the character.

Likewise, I can imagine the Batman that Byrne depicts in MOS # 3 becoming the DKR Batman over time.

That said, in recent years I've leaned towards viewing DKR as a kind of possible future/coda to the Pre-COIE versions of these characters, rather than as the ending to the Post-COIE versions. There's a great article here which explains it beautifully - https://comicsalliance.com/ask-chris...night-returns/

But that's not to say that Byrne and other writers weren't inspired by DKR when shaping the Post-COIE versions...

[Riv86672]

That's an interesting thought.

I wouldn't be too sure about Byrne's Superman not ending up like Miller's Superman. Byrne's Superman had a bit of a patriotic aspect to him...its understated but its there (Jonathan Kent tells him how he's an American citizen and has responsibilities). He's officially appointed as a deputy by Metropolis' mayor (was Superman ever officially deputized in the comics before this?) and proactively targets Batman basically because he regards him as an outlaw vigilante and no better than a criminal to be apprehended and delivered to GCPD at first.

I mean, you can kinda imagine this guy, thirty years later, becoming the President's right-hand man to serve the 'greater good'. Which is not to say that that's necessarily how Byrne saw the future of his take on the character.

Likewise, I can imagine the Batman that Byrne depicts in MOS # 3 becoming the DKR Batman over time.

That said, in recent years I've leaned towards viewing DKR as a kind of possible future/coda to the Pre-COIE versions of these characters, rather than as the ending to the Post-COIE versions. There's a great article here which explains it beautifully - https://comicsalliance.com/ask-chris...night-returns/

But that's not to say that Byrne and other writers weren't inspired by DKR when shaping the Post-COIE versions...

You made me rethink some stuff; great post, really gives me food for thought!
And thanks for the link, I’m going to dive into that one right now.