Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 42
  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,856

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Bifrost doesn't work that way, its not an instant teleport and more a "tunnel" that one can exit before the intended destination. See Hela throwing Thor and Loki off the bifrost in Ragnarok.

    Given this, this tactic is less than effective. Carol is completely fine in space, has feats of crossing intergalactic distances and can come back under her own power.

    If its simply a match between Thor and Carol, barring a lucky Stormbreaker hit, Carol also ragdolls Thanos, who in turn ragdolls Thor. It's Carol's fight to lose.
    I don't think that anything in the MCU has been directly stated to work on the intergalactic range (not counting the full powered Infinity Gauntlet's snaps) as of yet, so Carol's verifiable flight speeds are probably on the interstellar/galactic tier at best for now.

  2. #17
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    I don't think that anything in the MCU has been directly stated to work on the intergalactic range (not counting the full powered Infinity Gauntlet's snaps) as of yet, so Carol's verifiable flight speeds are probably on the interstellar/galactic tier at best for now.
    Noted on the distinction, I won't quibble on it. What I meant to say was that Carol's flight range is effectively "anywhere that's been shown spaceships can travel" given that Tony was somewhere in the middle of "hyperspace jumps to nowhere" as MCU spaceships are wont to do.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Bifrost doesn't work that way, its not an instant teleport and more a "tunnel" that one can exit before the intended destination. See Hela throwing Thor and Loki off the bifrost in Ragnarok.

    Given this, this tactic is less than effective. Carol is completely fine in space, has feats of crossing intergalactic distances and can come back under her own power.

    If its simply a match between Thor and Carol, barring a lucky Stormbreaker hit, Carol also ragdolls Thanos, who in turn ragdolls Thor. It's Carol's fight to lose.
    Thanos had the Power Stone when he was ragdolling Thor. Thanos didn't have any Infinity Stones or even put up a fight when Carol ragdolled him. You might be right, but we don't really have a basis for direct comparison between those two feats.

  4. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Thanos had the Power Stone when he was ragdolling Thor. Thanos didn't have any Infinity Stones or even put up a fight when Carol ragdolled him. You might be right, but we don't really have a basis for direct comparison between those two feats.
    The power stone does not give a strength advantage when placed in the gauntlet. It doesn't do anything without a closed fist (or other gesture - finger snap etc) or a distinctive lighting up. If it's not flashing and being obviously used, it's just sitting there.

    Thanos was beating down Thor just fine in Endgame without the stone for example. That's just how tough he is.
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 02-24-2021 at 06:25 AM.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  5. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Bifrost doesn't work that way, its not an instant teleport and more a "tunnel" that one can exit before the intended destination. See Hela throwing Thor and Loki off the bifrost in Ragnarok.

    Given this, this tactic is less than effective. Carol is completely fine in space, has feats of crossing intergalactic distances and can come back under her own power.

    If its simply a match between Thor and Carol, barring a lucky Stormbreaker hit, Carol also ragdolls Thanos, who in turn ragdolls Thor. It's Carol's fight to lose.
    I had not considered the ramifications of the Hela scene in regards to potential BFR. Good point.

    I'm still not totally convinced she can avoid getting chopped up if she decides to 1v1 Thor though. I'm pretty comfortable saying Stormbreaker cuts her to pieces, and unlike Thanos, she doesn't have a super sword to block or avoid hits.

    Shes definitely stronger and more durable but one clean hit still finishes it.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  6. #21
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,937

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Bifrost doesn't work that way, its not an instant teleport and more a "tunnel" that one can exit before the intended destination. See Hela throwing Thor and Loki off the bifrost in Ragnarok.

    Given this, this tactic is less than effective. Carol is completely fine in space, has feats of crossing intergalactic distances and can come back under her own power.

    If its simply a match between Thor and Carol, barring a lucky Stormbreaker hit, Carol also ragdolls Thanos, who in turn ragdolls Thor. It's Carol's fight to lose.
    Actually, the Bifrost absolutely does work that way... sometimes. It cuts the head off the dragon that was coming after Thor when Skurge ports him back to Asgard.

    Basically, it's really hard to put the one time that you could fall out of the Bifrost in line with all of the times you couldn't.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  7. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Actually, the Bifrost absolutely does work that way... sometimes. It cuts the head off the dragon that was coming after Thor when Skurge ports him back to Asgard.

    Basically, it's really hard to put the one time that you could fall out of the Bifrost in line with all of the times you couldn't.
    Why does the dragon head incident disqualify being able to leave the thing? It's not like the dismembered dead skull was trying to exit the energy stream.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  8. #23
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Thanos had the Power Stone when he was ragdolling Thor. Thanos didn't have any Infinity Stones or even put up a fight when Carol ragdolled him. You might be right, but we don't really have a basis for direct comparison between those two feats.
    Further to Arby's comment above, Carol was absolutely ragdolling Thanos just fine *with all five of the stones*. She was stopping him from closing his fist with relative ease and completely ignored a headbut from him. The only thing that affected her was a direct power stone blast (as it should, given the feats of the thing).

    Last edited by Twickster; 02-23-2021 at 05:46 PM.

  9. #24
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I had not considered the ramifications of the Hela scene in regards to potential BFR. Good point.

    I'm still not totally convinced she can avoid getting chopped up if she decides to 1v1 Thor though. I'm pretty comfortable saying Stormbreaker cuts her to pieces, and unlike Thanos, she doesn't have a super sword to block or avoid hits.

    Shes definitely stronger and more durable but one clean hit still finishes it.
    I'm not convinced Stormbreaker is the dealbreaker here. It has no "Thor only" enchantment and can be wielded effectively by anyone. Thanos was about to kill Thor with it in Endgame, for example, and Carol is significantly more powerful than Thor or Thanos.

    While I agree that Stormbreaker would be likely to be able to chop up Carol should it hit, its just as likely that the significantly stronger Carol snatches it from Thor somehow, ala Thanos. Bad news for Thor.

  10. #25
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,937

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Why does the dragon head incident disqualify being able to leave the thing? It's not like the dismembered dead skull was trying to exit the energy stream.
    That dragon was physically tougher than Loki, at the very least, and was cleanly bisected by the Bifrost instantly. Loki at least would not have therefore survived the edge of the Bifrost. Also, all of the other Bifrost jumps were basically instant teleportation through a tunnel you walked through, suddenly that one was... flying... something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    I'm not convinced Stormbreaker is the dealbreaker here. It has no "Thor only" enchantment and can be wielded effectively by anyone. Thanos was about to kill Thor with it in Endgame, for example, and Carol is significantly more powerful than Thor or Thanos.

    While I agree that Stormbreaker would be likely to be able to chop up Carol should it hit, its just as likely that the significantly stronger Carol snatches it from Thor somehow, ala Thanos. Bad news for Thor.
    Thanos didn't snatch it from Thor - he caught it on the return trip and used it. Subtle difference, but a difference. Thanos also demonstrates better fighting skills than Carol, so skill-wise, I'd buy him pulling this trick better than Carol.

    Carol is definitely the most physically powerful person here. That's by feats and presentation. Thor has a reach and skill advantage on her, and can definitely one-shot her with the most dangerous weapon here. She can also definitely dish harm to him.

    Here's where the Asgardians could make it very difficult for her however: once everyone else is dead, Thor can at least briefly stalemate Carol, Heimdahl can open the bifrost on, you know, half of her, and it's over. Kind of like for the dragon. Not a sure thing, but another way to win.

    They need to take care of Cap first.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  11. #26
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,542

    Default

    When Thor and Loki 'fall out of' the Bifrost, we actually see them 'break through' the walls. As in, the walls of the tunnel are being shattered and they then fall out of the 'hole'.

    As for how the Bifrost works, it has always worked like a tunnel that transports people by flying them places, we just don't see inside it most of the time. As an example of this from another movie, here (0:50) from Thor: The Dark World.

    I think it's perfectly possible that the bridge 'activating' on top of the dragon lops off its head, while Loki and Thor - inside and already being transported - can be smashed out of it by the ridiculously powerful Hela. Both happen in the same movie, as well. If anything, the dragon decapitation is the one that makes less sense as we've never seen the Bifrost do any damage to anything beyond making a neato pattern in the ground.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  12. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    When Thor and Loki 'fall out of' the Bifrost, we actually see them 'break through' the walls. As in, the walls of the tunnel are being shattered and they then fall out of the 'hole'.

    As for how the Bifrost works, it has always worked like a tunnel that transports people by flying them places, we just don't see inside it most of the time. As an example of this from another movie, here (0:50) from Thor: The Dark World.

    I think it's perfectly possible that the bridge 'activating' on top of the dragon lops off its head, while Loki and Thor - inside and already being transported - can be smashed out of it by the ridiculously powerful Hela. Both happen in the same movie, as well. If anything, the dragon decapitation is the one that makes less sense as we've never seen the Bifrost do any damage to anything beyond making a neato pattern in the ground.
    It can do damage when the main portal is left on, like in Thor 1, but otherwise I totally agree.

    If anything, the dragon scene is the unusual depiction.

    It's also shown a tunnel that you ride within when it takes Hulk to Earth.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  13. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    That dragon was physically tougher than Loki, at the very least, and was cleanly bisected by the Bifrost instantly. Loki at least would not have therefore survived the edge of the Bifrost. Also, all of the other Bifrost jumps were basically instant teleportation through a tunnel you walked through, suddenly that one was... flying... something.
    It's a tunnel that you ride within in Infinity War and Thor 2 as well. Basically any movie that bothers to show you the in between journey has it mostly following the depiction of when Hela was inside it.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  14. #29
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,542

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    It can do damage when the main portal is left on, like in Thor 1, but otherwise I totally agree.

    If anything, the dragon scene is the unusual depiction.

    It's also shown a tunnel that you ride within when it takes Hulk to Earth.
    Forgot about the 'leaving the lights on' part, yeah.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  15. #30

    Default

    I have conceived the perfect analogy and explanation of/for the Bifrost, and none of you can convince me it isnt.

    It's an FTL Elevator. ;P

    The "cutting" effect it had on the dragon was simply the dragon's head getting torn off its shoulders because it was suddenly accelerated to FTL speeds straight away from the rest of its body. It wasn't because it was passing through the walls of the thing. It's not portal cutting like Wong did to Cull. Its "if your whole body isnt in this thing at the time of departure, the sudden acceleration to FTL on that piece of you is likely to tear that piece away from the rest of you".

    Weve seen multiple examples of stuff pushing through the walls of it. Like Stormbreaker flying out the side when he arrives in Wakanda. Odin pulls everyone away from the Frost Giants into an active wall of Bifrost. Getting through the wall is not damaging. Not particularly. But you can bet, much like a real elevator, sitting half in and half out when it decides to move can be disastrous.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •