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  1. #376
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    That's part of being a cinematic universe. It's fine if you don't like it but that doesn't make it bad. I like seeing characters connect to a wider universe, rather than just the same limited solo stuff we've seen for decades.
    It's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't like it in every movie. Ir can be a part of the wider cinematic universe without having every movie make reference to that fact. Look at the comic books, not every issue or ever story makes references or mentions or cameos of other aspects of the Marvel Comic Book Universe. There's a ton of X-Men stories that doesn't mention any other part of Marvel for example, and yet we all know those stories still happened in their shared comic book universe anyways. It'd just be refreshing if like every 3rd or 4th MCU movie didn't matter or connect obviously to the wider MCU, to me personally anyways.

    Because they've messed up before. Maybe there is no reason.
    I could understand that back in 2017 right after JL bombed, but now I just don't see it. They'd have to mess up again pretty big I think before anyone should even be remotely worried about the end of the DCEU drawing near. It just seems like worrying about something that's not even close to likely to happen as things stand right now.

    I was just referring to the idea stated earlier that DC might do that if the current DCEU fails yet again. It's not my preferred choice either.
    DC might do what if the current DCEU fails again? Tack on a new universe onto the Batman? Was that idea even stated earlier?

    That's not my point. I don't think Joker works without Batman. I didn't think Joker worked as an actual Joker movie. The "solo villain" concept in general doesn't really sound good to me
    Different tastes then, and agree to disagree I suppose - I thought it worked just fine as an actual Joker movie and I loved it. It's okay if you didn't, but I hope you don't mind that I wish for a sequel, to have a return to it or see more movies explore the "solo villain" concept in the hopes it produces another movie I love even half as much. I don't think it takes away from anything, it was cheap enough to make I don't think you can argue some other movie didn't get made in favor of it either. Of course if Phillips and Phoenix don't want to do another then that's that, but if they do decide to then I'm all in and there opening day!

    And what exactly do you mean by "return to the kind of film"? Another solo Batman? Because we've had a bunch of those.
    No, because that'd make no sense with "and film-making" that follows right after it - solo Batman movie is not a kind of film-making. I just mean the more serious/noir/grounded/gritty style of film ala Nolan's movies (instead of the lighter MCU style, or the all style no substance of Snyder). It's hard really to describe tone and film making styles and such, a professional film critic I am not (and I'm not disparaging the MCU either). I'm just saying I know the sorts of films I love the most, and what we've seen of The Batman looks like the sort of thing I love. It's like the difference between the bombast of Robert Downey Jr.'s Sherlock Holmes vs the more human Ian McKellen's Mr. Holmes, or the ridiculousness of Godzilla vs Kong vs the more political Shin Godzilla. I like the latter movies more-so than the louder movies. And there hasn't been much of that sort in the superhero genre since, well, The Dark Knight Rises, Joker, or the Netflix Marvel shows, oh and Logan. It's less that it's a solo Batman film, and more that it's a more grounded, noir, serious looking superhero movie. Maybe you disagree, but I love that stuff and we haven't really seen a lot of it recently.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    It's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't like it in every movie. Ir can be a part of the wider cinematic universe without having every movie make reference to that fact. Look at the comic books, not every issue or ever story makes references or mentions or cameos of other aspects of the Marvel Comic Book Universe. There's a ton of X-Men stories that doesn't mention any other part of Marvel for example, and yet we all know those stories still happened in their shared comic book universe anyways. It'd just be refreshing if like every 3rd or 4th MCU movie didn't matter or connect obviously to the wider MCU, to me personally anyways.
    But not every movie does mention every other thing. It's just part of a wider universe. I don't see exactly why this is a problem, personally

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I could understand that back in 2017 right after JL bombed, but now I just don't see it. They'd have to mess up again pretty big I think before anyone should even be remotely worried about the end of the DCEU drawing near. It just seems like worrying about something that's not even close to likely to happen as things stand right now.
    I guess so, but I'm still cautious about WB right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    DC might do what if the current DCEU fails again? Tack on a new universe onto the Batman? Was that idea even stated earlier?
    I thought someone mentioned that in a comment. Maybe I'm mistaken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Different tastes then, and agree to disagree I suppose - I thought it worked just fine as an actual Joker movie and I loved it. It's okay if you didn't, but I hope you don't mind that I wish for a sequel, to have a return to it or see more movies explore the "solo villain" concept in the hopes it produces another movie I love even half as much. I don't think it takes away from anything, it was cheap enough to make I don't think you can argue some other movie didn't get made in favor of it either. Of course if Phillips and Phoenix don't want to do another then that's that, but if they do decide to then I'm all in and there opening day!
    I'd rather have a "solo hero" project. For me it's not about not making another movie. It's just that I don't think the solo villain thing works that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    No, because that'd make no sense with "and film-making" that follows right after it - solo Batman movie is not a kind of film-making. I just mean the more serious/noir/grounded/gritty style of film ala Nolan's movies (instead of the lighter MCU style, or the all style no substance of Snyder). It's hard really to describe tone and film making styles and such, a professional film critic I am not (and I'm not disparaging the MCU either). I'm just saying I know the sorts of films I love the most, and what we've seen of The Batman looks like the sort of thing I love. It's like the difference between the bombast of Robert Downey Jr.'s Sherlock Holmes vs the more human Ian McKellen's Mr. Holmes, or the ridiculousness of Godzilla vs Kong vs the more political Shin Godzilla. I like the latter movies more-so than the louder movies. And there hasn't been much of that sort in the superhero genre since, well, The Dark Knight Rises, Joker, or the Netflix Marvel shows, oh and Logan. It's less that it's a solo Batman film, and more that it's a more grounded, noir, serious looking superhero movie. Maybe you disagree, but I love that stuff and we haven't really seen a lot of it recently.
    Personally, I'm wary of gritty stuff. It sometimes seems like an excuse to endorse brutality, or just handwaves heroes committing questionable acts because they're protagonists. Being dour and darkly lit isn't inherently substantial to me. It can be done well, and theoretically I'd like to see more. But I'm not super attached to the whole "beating criminals is the only way" that "dark and gritty" can descend into. Or the whole "the law gets in the way" kind of "justice".

  3. #378
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    But not every movie does mention every other thing. It's just part of a wider universe. I don't see exactly why this is a problem, personally
    It definitely feels like every movie to me, but each their own.

    I guess so, but I'm still cautious about WB right now
    I'm cautious as well, but more for studio meddling in movies rather than some decision to end the DCEU.

    I thought someone mentioned that in a comment. Maybe I'm mistaken.
    Maybe, but I don't remember it.

    I'd rather have a "solo hero" project. For me it's not about not making another movie. It's just that I don't think the solo villain thing works that much.
    I'd rather have both. Since it's an "in addition to" instead of an "in place of" and since I loved the last one, I've got my fingers crossed. I think it does work that much just because I thought the Joker movie worked very, very, very well personally. Could take a movie or two like that every year.

    Personally, I'm wary of gritty stuff. It sometimes seems like an excuse to endorse brutality, or just handwaves heroes committing questionable acts because they're protagonists. Being dour and darkly lit isn't inherently substantial to me. It can be done well, and theoretically I'd like to see more. But I'm not super attached to the whole "beating criminals is the only way" that "dark and gritty" can descend into. Or the whole "the law gets in the way" kind of "justice".
    Oh I agree on being wary, I'm into substantial grit, not stylish grit. The difference between The Dark Knight vs Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. Both were dark and gritty for superhero films, but one had substance and used that grit to tell a story, whereas the later was all just style and used it to show how "cool" it was. It's a fine line, but when it's done just so I love it to pieces. Like I love the MCU, but I never rewatch the movies except maybe Iron Man. But I still watch The Dark Knight yearly and have rewatched Joker multiple times. I'm not full of myself to say one is better or superior over another, I just know I like one a lot more - but most films in the genre don't go in that direction, or do it well, so when I see something like The Batman where it looks to be an example of it done well I get giddy with excitement. But what one thinks is inherently substantial vs just inherently stylish probably boils down to personal taste. At the end of the day all we can really say is we like what we like and wish to see more of what we like.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    It definitely feels like every movie to me, but each their own.



    I'm cautious as well, but more for studio meddling in movies rather than some decision to end the DCEU.
    Wouldn't that be a form of studio meddling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Maybe, but I don't remember it.



    I'd rather have both. Since it's an "in addition to" instead of an "in place of" and since I loved the last one, I've got my fingers crossed. I think it does work that much just because I thought the Joker movie worked very, very, very well personally. Could take a movie or two like that every year.
    Ok. I still don't get the villain solo thing, and I don't feel like he was "Joker-y" enough, if that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Oh I agree on being wary, I'm into substantial grit, not stylish grit. The difference between The Dark Knight vs Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. Both were dark and gritty for superhero films, but one had substance and used that grit to tell a story, whereas the later was all just style and used it to show how "cool" it was. It's a fine line, but when it's done just so I love it to pieces. Like I love the MCU, but I never rewatch the movies except maybe Iron Man. But I still watch The Dark Knight yearly and have rewatched Joker multiple times. I'm not full of myself to say one is better or superior over another, I just know I like one a lot more - but most films in the genre don't go in that direction, or do it well, so when I see something like The Batman where it looks to be an example of it done well I get giddy with excitement. But what one thinks is inherently substantial vs just inherently stylish probably boils down to personal taste. At the end of the day all we can really say is we like what we like and wish to see more of what we like.
    BvS also suffered from not being coherent enough and not having enough proper characterization IMO. I'd have accepted the stylishness of it if the plot was more coherent, and the main heroes actually more substantial interactions with one another besides trying to fight each other. Superman felt like a side character at times

    If superman does come back to the DCEU, I want to see him interact with other heroes more, or just people in general, instead of silently staring while others talk to him. Maybe he can team up with this Supergirl at some point

  5. #380
    Mighty Member Dipter's Avatar
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    Message removed. Came across more rude than I intended lol
    Last edited by Dipter; 07-29-2021 at 08:53 PM.

  6. #381
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Wouldn't that be a form of studio meddling?
    I guess maybe? But it's not in any way what I'd consider a likely meddling. Unless Suicide Squad, Black Adam, and Flash all underperform I think any fears of them axing the DCEU is unfounded. Like what's the argument for them to end it right now? If it was ever going to be in danger, it would've been in the fall out of JL bombing at the box office, so 4 years later with multiple DCEU films planned and in development it just seems like worrying over nothing. It's as safe as it can be - multiple films would have to blow it in order to kill the DCEU off. At worst I only see like maybe 1 of those doing that poorly.

    Ok. I still don't get the villain solo thing, and I don't feel like he was "Joker-y" enough, if that makes sense.
    That's alright, there's a lot of movies I don't see the appeal of (most recently Godzilla vs Kong - it was a truly horrid kaiju picture in my opinion, but other people thought it was dumb fun - I can only agree on the dumb part of that assessment). No movie is going to be gotten by everyone, we all have different tastes. As for him being Joker-y, sure he wasn't really all that comic accurate, but neither was Ledger's. But he still wound up as a psychotic killer criminal clown calling himself Joker at the end, which is Joker-y enough for me at the end of the day. It's just another Elseworld at the end of the day, and better than most in my opinion.

    Like I said, ultimately it's just a movie I really liked and that's all the reason I need to hope they make a sequel. Ideally I'd like it to be a trilogy with the third one introducing that world's version of Batman, but I realize that's pretty unlikely - still, a man can dream.

    BvS also suffered from not being coherent enough and not having enough proper characterization IMO. I'd have accepted the stylishness of it if the plot was more coherent, and the main heroes actually more substantial interactions with one another besides trying to fight each other. Superman felt like a side character at times
    Let's just agree BvS suffered from a lot and is a very, very, very flawed film. I mostly just watch it now for that Batmobile chase sequence and the warehouse fight scene. Two of my favorite Batman scenes of all time in the worst Superman flick to date...

    If superman does come back to the DCEU, I want to see him interact with other heroes more, or just people in general, instead of silently staring while others talk to him. Maybe he can team up with this Supergirl at some point
    I hope Superman doesn't come back to the DCEU. Why? Because I'm afraid the only reason they'd bring him back is so The Rock's Black Adam can hand Cavill's Superman his own ass after whooping the tar out of him, and frankly "Black Adam beats the hell out of Superman!" isn't anything I'm particularly interested in seeing.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I guess maybe? But it's not in any way what I'd consider a likely meddling. Unless Suicide Squad, Black Adam, and Flash all underperform I think any fears of them axing the DCEU is unfounded. Like what's the argument for them to end it right now? If it was ever going to be in danger, it would've been in the fall out of JL bombing at the box office, so 4 years later with multiple DCEU films planned and in development it just seems like worrying over nothing. It's as safe as it can be - multiple films would have to blow it in order to kill the DCEU off. At worst I only see like maybe 1 of those doing that poorly.
    I guess when you put it like that. All the upcoming films sound good to me, so I don't think any will flop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    That's alright, there's a lot of movies I don't see the appeal of (most recently Godzilla vs Kong - it was a truly horrid kaiju picture in my opinion, but other people thought it was dumb fun - I can only agree on the dumb part of that assessment). No movie is going to be gotten by everyone, we all have different tastes. As for him being Joker-y, sure he wasn't really all that comic accurate, but neither was Ledger's. But he still wound up as a psychotic killer criminal clown calling himself Joker at the end, which is Joker-y enough for me at the end of the day. It's just another Elseworld at the end of the day, and better than most in my opinion.
    Like I said, ultimately it's just a movie I really liked and that's all the reason I need to hope they make a sequel. Ideally I'd like it to be a trilogy with the third one introducing that world's version of Batman, but I realize that's pretty unlikely - still, a man can dream.

    I guess I just like the villains more when they're going up against heroes, for the most part. Batman can work without Joker, and I think most heroes can do that to some extent, but Joker without Batman seems incomplete to me. And I'd take GvK over most of the later Showa movies, some of the Heisei and the whole anime trilogy

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Let's just agree BvS suffered from a lot and is a very, very, very flawed film. I mostly just watch it now for that Batmobile chase sequence and the warehouse fight scene. Two of my favorite Batman scenes of all time in the worst Superman flick to date...
    It's still better than Superman 3/4. Those were awful. But at least in those, Superman felt like a main character, which he didn't to me in BvS. BvS has lots of good parts, but the sum isn't greater

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I hope Superman doesn't come back to the DCEU. Why? Because I'm afraid the only reason they'd bring him back is so The Rock's Black Adam can hand Cavill's Superman his own ass after whooping the tar out of him, and frankly "Black Adam beats the hell out of Superman!" isn't anything I'm particularly interested in seeing.
    Is BA strong enough to beat Superman? Superman already took on the rest of the League and beat them.

    I wouldn't want Superman brought back for that. But I do want to see more of him in the DCEU, and have the Kryptonian side of DCEU fleshed out more, especially since we're getting Supergirl

  8. #383
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I guess when you put it like that. All the upcoming films sound good to me, so I don't think any will flop.
    Same. The only one I'm worried about is Flash being too stuffed and convoluted maybe, and even then I think Keaton Batman will carry it to profitability. It's why WB ending the DCEU isn't on my radar of worries, it's too profitable for them to axe.

    I guess I just like the villains more when they're going up against heroes, for the most part. Batman can work without Joker, and I think most heroes can do that to some extent, but Joker without Batman seems incomplete to me. And I'd take GvK over most of the later Showa movies, some of the Heisei and the whole anime trilogy
    For me I guess it all depends on the execution, and I thought the Joker movie executed it incredibly well if not perfectly. Rewatched it this morning before bed, and it's still pretty good and I'm interested in a continuation just to see where it could go after that.

    Definitely disagree - even the worst of the Showa and Heisei eras never pissed me off like GvK has - bored me some maybe (All Monsters Attack, vs SpaceGodzilla), but never pissed me off. Although the anime trilogy came pretty close...

    It's still better than Superman 3/4. Those were awful. But at least in those, Superman felt like a main character, which he didn't to me in BvS. BvS has lots of good parts, but the sum isn't greater
    True, it did treat him like a side character more than equal billing.

    Is BA strong enough to beat Superman? Superman already took on the rest of the League and beat them.

    I wouldn't want Superman brought back for that. But I do want to see more of him in the DCEU, and have the Kryptonian side of DCEU fleshed out more, especially since we're getting Supergirl
    The difference is, that was then and this is now - Supes beating the rest of the JL was scripted and possibly filmed before BvS underperformed, and before JL bombed, before Cavill and WB got into their current...not dispute exactly, but clearly there's some kind of minor hang up there now, and it was before they decided to reboot with a black Clark Kent outside the DCEU, and before HBO Max decided to make Val Zod Superman which may or may not be in the DCEU (we don't know what its status is yet in terms of continuity placement), and before superstar Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson started applying his charm offensive/pressure to request getting to kick Superman's ass (never mind his contract which states how beat up he can get or the minimum amount of hits he can take or dish out or whatever it is).

    Basically, it doesn't look good now. If Cavill's Superman comes back to the current DCEU, it more than likely won't have anything to do with the Kryptonian side of DCEU or Supergirl - it'd be so Black Adam/DJ can kick his ass on the big screen.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Same. The only one I'm worried about is Flash being too stuffed and convoluted maybe, and even then I think Keaton Batman will carry it to profitability. It's why WB ending the DCEU isn't on my radar of worries, it's too profitable for them to axe.
    I don't see flash becoming too convulted except by an incompetent script. If anything I think the movie might not go far enough in taking advantage of the potential

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    For me I guess it all depends on the execution, and I thought the Joker movie executed it incredibly well if not perfectly. Rewatched it this morning before bed, and it's still pretty good and I'm interested in a continuation just to see where it could go after that.
    I guess I'm not as interested in that. I'd prefer if he was more like the Joker I know

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Definitely disagree - even the worst of the Showa and Heisei eras never pissed me off like GvK has - bored me some maybe (All Monsters Attack, vs SpaceGodzilla), but never pissed me off. Although the anime trilogy came pretty close...
    I can't really see what the problem with GvK is, aside from the too numerous human characters. The latter Showa were childish, repetitive, cheap and uninspired for the most part. And the Heisei had lame characters. GvK is average but entertaining and gets many things right

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    True, it did treat him like a side character more than equal billing.
    Yeah, Superman deserves better

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    The difference is, that was then and this is now - Supes beating the rest of the JL was scripted and possibly filmed before BvS underperformed, and before JL bombed, before Cavill and WB got into their current...not dispute exactly, but clearly there's some kind of minor hang up there now, and it was before they decided to reboot with a black Clark Kent outside the DCEU, and before HBO Max decided to make Val Zod Superman which may or may not be in the DCEU (we don't know what its status is yet in terms of continuity placement), and before superstar Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson started applying his charm offensive/pressure to request getting to kick Superman's ass (never mind his contract which states how beat up he can get or the minimum amount of hits he can take or dish out or whatever it is).

    Basically, it doesn't look good now. If Cavill's Superman comes back to the current DCEU, it more than likely won't have anything to do with the Kryptonian side of DCEU or Supergirl - it'd be so Black Adam/DJ can kick his ass on the big screen.
    I see what you mean, although I thought Johnson's contract only pertained to F

    I do hope Superman eventually returns

  10. #385
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I don't see flash becoming too convulted except by an incompetent script. If anything I think the movie might not go far enough in taking advantage of the potential
    Eh, I'm not saying it will be convoluted, but I can see how it might be. First Flash film we get, and instead of an origin or a vs film with a classic rogue we're jumping into a Flashpoint inspired multiverse hopping with 2 Batmen and a Supergirl. Hopefully it will be good, but there's a distinct possibility it'll become too crowded or too convoluted one if not handled right. So we'll just have to wait and see. If nothing else though it should have some great scenes. Looking forward to Keaton and Affleck, they're great actors so see them possibly interacting with each other as their individual Batmans will be cool to see.

    I guess I'm not as interested in that. I'd prefer if he was more like the Joker I know
    He's a crazy killer criminal clown, so it's close enough to Joker than me. He doesn't resemble the comic book character exactly, but neither did Heath Ledger's if we're actually willing to be honest here. To each their own, we all have our own preferences. Still loved the film and want more like it.

    I can't really see what the problem with GvK is, aside from the too numerous human characters. The latter Showa were childish, repetitive, cheap and uninspired for the most part. And the Heisei had lame characters. GvK is average but entertaining and gets many things right
    1. Godzilla's characterization was wildly different from the previous film, and his murderous hatred of Kong was never explained in a satisfying way - the hand wave "ancient rivalry" isn't an explanation, it's an excuse to not bother coming up with a reason.
    2. Despite being an absolute unjustified asshole and antagonist against Kong the whole movie, he also wins both fights against Kong. The bad guy winning is never satisfying.
    3. Despite the fact that Godzilla was an unprovoked asshole who went out of his way to attempt murder on Kong and nearly succeeded, we're expected to believe that Kong is going to save him from MechaG just because the girl tells him Godzilla is not his real enemy (when for a fact Godzilla has been an enemy of Kong the whole film long).
    4. That after destroying MechaG Kong doesn't immediately swing his axe into the murder-lizard's skull while said murder-lizard is still down for a bit, and just seemingly not only forgives Godzilla for his unprovoked aggression against him and basically just submits to Godzilla - and we're supposed to buy this is a great outcome.
    5. The human plot is straight up the dumbest thing I've ever seen in a Godzilla film. Yes, later Showa was childish, repetitive, cheap and uninspired, but that was because it was aimed at kids of that era - a modern movie being all those same things, but aimed at everyone including adults with the assumption that we're supposed to just turn our brains off because "kaiju films are supposed to be dumb as fuck you guys!" is infinitely more insulting.
    6. Not only is the plot stupid, but the world shown in GvK has no relation to the world left by the last two movies. The destruction from King of the Monsters is nowhere to be seen, the other kaiju are just gone, and somehow they jumped from mostly realistic technology to freaking impossible giant super quick robots and weird flying underground jet things and all sorts of out there shit with no explanation and completely out of place with the previous films.
    7. The Hollow Earth of Skull Island and KotM seemed relatively grounded to some extent, if largely unseen and just referenced - here it's a completely ridiculous cartoon world of CGI.
    8. They really couldn't be bothered with any real or actual storytelling - honestly watching this I got the sense that it was made with the intent that people shouldn't watch it as an actual movie. This is the first time I've ever seen a "film" that seemed to be made for the sole purpose to just watch the fight scenes out of context on youtube. The story seems like purposeless shit because it literally doesn't matter and was just there to pad time and let them call it a "movie." The fights are literally the only point, the only thing anyone put even the most basic of effort into. You're only really supposed to care about the cool fight scenes and not anything else.
    9. There's a mistaken belief that kaiju movies are all dumb films, and that the only thing of importance is seeing monsters fight. This is the belief the director obviously held, and it's the belief anyone who sees this film will come away with. It's actively furthering the belief that kaiju movies are dumb to western audiences, which means more western kaiju movies are going to follow this belief, which means we will have to wait a very, very, very long time to get a kaiju film from Hollywood that takes things seriously. Basically Hollywood kaiju movies are where superhero movies once were, easily dismissed as silly stupid popcorn fluff incapable of being anything better.

    That was 9 reasons just off the top of my head. I truly, truly hate this film. I will never risk watching a further Monsterverse film. I can only pray that Toho goes back to making their own live action Godzilla films, otherwise I won't get any more Godzilla films to watch. I'm not subjecting myself to another film in the mold of GvK, I just won't do that to myself.

    I see what you mean, although I thought Johnson's contract only pertained to F
    By F I think you mean the Fast and the Furious franchise? Maybe, I don't know - from what I've read though it seems like it pertains to any film he's in. Either way, it doesn't look good for Superman's chances - Johnson's definitely made it known he wants his Black Adam to go against Superman, and not to lose or come to a draw either, but to mop up the floor with him.

    I do hope Superman eventually returns
    Same, although I'd rather they do a light reboot or recast or whatever - I've never been sold on Cavill and would like to see someone else have a go as the character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Eh, I'm not saying it will be convoluted, but I can see how it might be. First Flash film we get, and instead of an origin or a vs film with a classic rogue we're jumping into a Flashpoint inspired multiverse hopping with 2 Batmen and a Supergirl. Hopefully it will be good, but there's a distinct possibility it'll become too crowded or too convoluted one if not handled right. So we'll just have to wait and see. If nothing else though it should have some great scenes. Looking forward to Keaton and Affleck, they're great actors so see them possibly interacting with each other as their individual Batmans will be cool to see.
    There's only four heroes confirmed so far, so I don't think it'll be too crowded. But, we'll see. And frankly, do we need another generic origin hero vs villain story? Let's move along

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    He's a crazy killer criminal clown, so it's close enough to Joker than me. He doesn't resemble the comic book character exactly, but neither did Heath Ledger's if we're actually willing to be honest here. To each their own, we all have our own preferences. Still loved the film and want more like it.
    Tbh, I'm not the hugest fan of Ledger's Joker on a personal level, but he did feel like the Joker to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    1. Godzilla's characterization was wildly different from the previous film, and his murderous hatred of Kong was never explained in a satisfying way - the hand wave "ancient rivalry" isn't an explanation, it's an excuse to not bother coming up with a reason.
    2. Despite being an absolute unjustified asshole and antagonist against Kong the whole movie, he also wins both fights against Kong. The bad guy winning is never satisfying.
    3. Despite the fact that Godzilla was an unprovoked asshole who went out of his way to attempt murder on Kong and nearly succeeded, we're expected to believe that Kong is going to save him from MechaG just because the girl tells him Godzilla is not his real enemy (when for a fact Godzilla has been an enemy of Kong the whole film long).
    4. That after destroying MechaG Kong doesn't immediately swing his axe into the murder-lizard's skull while said murder-lizard is still down for a bit, and just seemingly not only forgives Godzilla for his unprovoked aggression against him and basically just submits to Godzilla - and we're supposed to buy this is a great outcome.
    5. The human plot is straight up the dumbest thing I've ever seen in a Godzilla film. Yes, later Showa was childish, repetitive, cheap and uninspired, but that was because it was aimed at kids of that era - a modern movie being all those same things, but aimed at everyone including adults with the assumption that we're supposed to just turn our brains off because "kaiju films are supposed to be dumb as fuck you guys!" is infinitely more insulting.
    6. Not only is the plot stupid, but the world shown in GvK has no relation to the world left by the last two movies. The destruction from King of the Monsters is nowhere to be seen, the other kaiju are just gone, and somehow they jumped from mostly realistic technology to freaking impossible giant super quick robots and weird flying underground jet things and all sorts of out there shit with no explanation and completely out of place with the previous films.
    7. The Hollow Earth of Skull Island and KotM seemed relatively grounded to some extent, if largely unseen and just referenced - here it's a completely ridiculous cartoon world of CGI.
    8. They really couldn't be bothered with any real or actual storytelling - honestly watching this I got the sense that it was made with the intent that people shouldn't watch it as an actual movie. This is the first time I've ever seen a "film" that seemed to be made for the sole purpose to just watch the fight scenes out of context on youtube. The story seems like purposeless shit because it literally doesn't matter and was just there to pad time and let them call it a "movie." The fights are literally the only point, the only thing anyone put even the most basic of effort into. You're only really supposed to care about the cool fight scenes and not anything else.
    9. There's a mistaken belief that kaiju movies are all dumb films, and that the only thing of importance is seeing monsters fight. This is the belief the director obviously held, and it's the belief anyone who sees this film will come away with. It's actively furthering the belief that kaiju movies are dumb to western audiences, which means more western kaiju movies are going to follow this belief, which means we will have to wait a very, very, very long time to get a kaiju film from Hollywood that takes things seriously. Basically Hollywood kaiju movies are where superhero movies once were, easily dismissed as silly stupid popcorn fluff incapable of being anything better.

    That was 9 reasons just off the top of my head. I truly, truly hate this film. I will never risk watching a further Monsterverse film. I can only pray that Toho goes back to making their own live action Godzilla films, otherwise I won't get any more Godzilla films to watch. I'm not subjecting myself to another film in the mold of GvK, I just won't do that to myself.
    Godzilla went after Kong because he thought he was a threat. That's what alpha kaiju seem to do. Godzilla's never had much of a reason to fight anyone in any of these movies. Why start complaining now? And in the end, Kong saw MechaGodzilla as the bigger threat, and after they beat him, Kong and Godzilla decided to make a truce. In many ways, that's character evolution.

    And since when is the "bad guy winning" a bad thing? Didn't the same thing happen in Joker? I don't think every movie needs to end with "hero wins."

    And this human plot wasn't nearly as bad as a lot of Godzilla movies. So what if those were aimed at children? How's that an excuse. And the Heisei and Millenium movies had convoluted or weak human plots in several movies as well. I'm not seeing what makes GvK so "awful" here. All the plots are just to lead up to the fight. I mean, you say you want something deeper, yet got annoyed at the bad guy winning. I don't get that.

    The Hollow Earth thing was a bit over the top, but I didn't hate it.

    Ultimately, daikaiju movies are mocked because of stupid nonsense like the later Showa movies. This one is a step up from that repetitive, cheap nonsense. I don't like the genre being mocked either, but that's not really the fault of GvK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    By F I think you mean the Fast and the Furious franchise? Maybe, I don't know - from what I've read though it seems like it pertains to any film he's in. Either way, it doesn't look good for Superman's chances - Johnson's definitely made it known he wants his Black Adam to go against Superman, and not to lose or come to a draw either, but to mop up the floor with him.
    Yeah, I meant Fast & Furious. Anyway, Idk if Johnson has that much power in the DCEU

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Same, although I'd rather they do a light reboot or recast or whatever - I've never been sold on Cavill and would like to see someone else have a go as the character.
    I don't mind Cavill, but he's never had the best material to begin with

  12. #387
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/crypt0dad_/statu...474637314?s=21

    Well looks like there is a Superman in the Flash. The two likeliest options are Cavill or Routh, but maybe it will be Cage lol
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    https://twitter.com/crypt0dad_/statu...474637314?s=21

    Well looks like there is a Superman in the Flash. The two likeliest options are Cavill or Routh, but maybe it will be Cage lol
    ...The plot thickens.

  14. #389
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Well I guess it’s Cavill if he’s telling the truth:

    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Well I guess it’s Cavill if he’s telling the truth:

    Huh, maybe this is his true swansong? Unless it's just another suit cameo, but it doesn't sound like it.

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