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  1. #361
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I don't get how DC keeps screwing up the whole shared universe thing so badly.
    Especially when they've done it fine before.

    But I think it's less a shared universe issue and more of a failure of individual films.

  2. #362
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    The reason why they screwed up the shared universe thing is because audiences rejected the entire direction the franchise was going and basically bailed on trying to unfuck a mess that people hated from the very foundation


    Marvel would be in the same position if audiences hated Thanos and the infinity stones storyline or the portrayal of the big six

  3. #363
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I guess I don't think that would necessarily happen.
    Then you have more faith or hope in them than I do. No clue why, they certainly haven't earned it.

    WB'S problem has been focusing too much on Batman in the first place
    Then wouldn't tacking on some ill designed rebooted cinematic universe onto a universe made and designed primarily with Batman in mind just exacerbate that problem? Seems like if focusing too much on Batman is the problem, then the last thing anyone should want is for everything to get tied down to his movie trilogy.

  4. #364
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Especially when they've done it fine before.

    But I think it's less a shared universe issue and more of a failure of individual films.
    Not even that, it’s a failure of the people at the top who are supposed to be overseeing the damn thing.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Then you have more faith or hope in them than I do. No clue why, they certainly haven't earned it.
    They haven't, but I wouldn't totally give up hope yet because there are several new films & shows coming out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Then wouldn't tacking on some ill designed rebooted cinematic universe onto a universe made and designed primarily with Batman in mind just exacerbate that problem? Seems like if focusing too much on Batman is the problem, then the last thing anyone should want is for everything to get tied down to his movie trilogy.
    That's possible, but part of the idea of a shared universe is having Batman in there. He's a major member of the Justice League. Moving the focus to other characters doesn't mean not having him at all

  6. #366
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Not even that, it’s a failure of the people at the top who are supposed to be overseeing the damn thing.
    Yeah, WB have...not had the best track record with executive decisions.

  7. #367
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, WB have...not had the best track record with executive decisions.
    Indeed, this could be the understatement of the century.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  8. #368
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    They haven't, but I wouldn't totally give up hope yet because there are several new films & shows coming out.
    True, but all my hope is pinned on the animated side with My Adventures with Superman series and the Super Pets movie. And maybe the MBJ Val Zod series. But the black Clark Kent reboot has my skepticism, and fans desire to staple on a new cinematic universe to The Batman has me worried.

    That's possible, but part of the idea of a shared universe is having Batman in there. He's a major member of the Justice League. Moving the focus to other characters doesn't mean not having him at all
    Which is why there's still Keaton and maybe Affleck in the already existent shared universe - a universe with a Batman designed to fit in a shared universe. So, why make another? Why make a new shared universe designed to fit a Batman? Just use the one/s we got.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    True, but all my hope is pinned on the animated side with My Adventures with Superman series and the Super Pets movie. And maybe the MBJ Val Zod series. But the black Clark Kent reboot has my skepticism, and fans desire to staple on a new cinematic universe to The Batman has me worried.
    Of everything going on, that has you worried? I'm more worried about WB abandoning the DCEU for more Batman

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Which is why there's still Keaton and maybe Affleck in the already existent shared universe - a universe with a Batman designed to fit in a shared universe. So, why make another? Why make a new shared universe designed to fit a Batman? Just use the one/s we got.
    But then what's the point of creating another separate Batman universe?

  10. #370
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Of everything going on, that has you worried? I'm more worried about WB abandoning the DCEU for more Batman
    Why are you worried about that when most of the movies and shows announced are DCEU films/shows? Only things not in the DCEU are The Batman, Superman reboot, and any possible Joker sequel. So that feels like a pretty unfounded worry.

    But then what's the point of creating another separate Batman universe?
    To expand out of having to rely on a shared cinematic universe and embrace the multiverse angle so you can play around with continuities and have more films just be their own unique thing without having to worry about how it fits into the DCEU. Which to me is an incredible point that I'm all for.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Why are you worried about that when most of the movies and shows announced are DCEU films/shows? Only things not in the DCEU are The Batman, Superman reboot, and any possible Joker sequel. So that feels like a pretty unfounded worry.
    Because they haven't stated how much these will all connect. I personally don't find the whole "fitting Batman into DCEU" to be a found worry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    To expand out of having to rely on a shared cinematic universe and embrace the multiverse angle so you can play around with continuities and have more films just be their own unique thing without having to worry about how it fits into the DCEU. Which to me is an incredible point that I'm all for.
    I don't get why it can't be unique and still in the DCEU. A lot of the DCEU movies are already fairly varied. And at what point did the DCEU rely that much on the cinematic universe concept anyway?

  12. #372
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Because they haven't stated how much these will all connect.
    Because they don't really need to? I mean, even in the MCU not every film connects to what they're doing in every other film (although honestly far too many of them do). Doesn't mean they're shuttering the universe down, just means they're reluctant to do another big team up movie after the last one flopped. Honestly that's a good thing, let the focus on establishing the characters a bit more first and then have everyone meet up and show how connected it is. Do they really need to tell us how these movies will connect when most of them are still taking place in the DCEU?

    I personally don't find the whole "fitting Batman into DCEU" to be a found worry.
    I agree, it isn't a worry - because Batman is already in the DCEU - Affleck. And another Batman is getting added to the DCEU - Keaton.
    My worry is "fitting another universe onto Pattinson's Batman." They shouldn't do that.

    I don't get why it can't be unique and still in the DCEU. A lot of the DCEU movies are already fairly varied. And at what point did the DCEU rely that much on the cinematic universe concept anyway?
    It can be, but it'd still have to tied down to Affleck's take or explained away or they'd have to jump through hoops to explain why this Batman is young and just starting out and...it's just easier and imo more interesting to just make it separate from the DCEU and really do their own thing. I mean, it's not different from what they already do in the comic books anyways, look at how many Elseworlds and Black Label books there've been. It's just taking that same concept and applying it now to film.

    Pattinson's The Batman doesn't need the DCEU, the DCEU doesn't need him. Same for Phoenix's JOKER, and same for whoever they cast to play a African American Clark Kent. We've got the shared cinematic universe which is about to see two Batmen and a new Supergirl, but we've also got a wider multiverse where we'll get a third Batman and a black Superman. No clue yet if MBJ's Val Zod is going to the DCEU or have his own universe yet, but hey that's two Supermen in film/limited series (3 if you really want to count the CW show).

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Because they don't really need to? I mean, even in the MCU not every film connects to what they're doing in every other film (although honestly far too many of them do). Doesn't mean they're shuttering the universe down, just means they're reluctant to do another big team up movie after the last one flopped. Honestly that's a good thing, let the focus on establishing the characters a bit more first and then have everyone meet up and show how connected it is. Do they really need to tell us how these movies will connect when most of them are still taking place in the DCEU?
    What do you mean by "far too many of them do"? All I'm saying is they shouldn't completely abandon the idea. WB has a track record of giving up to quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I agree, it isn't a worry - because Batman is already in the DCEU - Affleck. And another Batman is getting added to the DCEU - Keaton.
    My worry is "fitting another universe onto Pattinson's Batman." They shouldn't do that.
    I don't totally agree, but I'll wait to see Pattison's Batman first. I just don't buy into the "cinematic universe is a threat" idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    It can be, but it'd still have to tied down to Affleck's take or explained away or they'd have to jump through hoops to explain why this Batman is young and just starting out and...it's just easier and imo more interesting to just make it separate from the DCEU and really do their own thing. I mean, it's not different from what they already do in the comic books anyways, look at how many Elseworlds and Black Label books there've been. It's just taking that same concept and applying it now to film.

    Pattinson's The Batman doesn't need the DCEU, the DCEU doesn't need him. Same for Phoenix's JOKER, and same for whoever they cast to play a African American Clark Kent. We've got the shared cinematic universe which is about to see two Batmen and a new Supergirl, but we've also got a wider multiverse where we'll get a third Batman and a black Superman. No clue yet if MBJ's Val Zod is going to the DCEU or have his own universe yet, but hey that's two Supermen in film/limited series (3 if you really want to count the CW show).
    I don't think we need another Joker anyway.

    I guess if you look at it as an elseworlds kind of thing, it could work. Although I don't count in CW show in this regard.

    I'm just not totally sure on the appeal of seeing yet another new Batman again. How many times does he get to be rebooted? It looks like it'll be good, but do we need the same thing over again?

  14. #374
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    What do you mean by "far too many of them do"?
    This movie that has no other connection to the MCU still needs to be seen because it introduced this or that thing that will be needed during this or that big crossover (all the infinity stones were introduced in solo movies if I remember right). Basically you feel obligated to watch every MCU movie in order or you might miss something that's going to appear later in another movie. It's effective for getting bums in seats every film, but it can irritate.

    All I'm saying is they shouldn't completely abandon the idea. WB has a track record of giving up to quickly.
    And all I'm saying is that there's literally zero reason or evidence to think that they will. Why do you think they would?

    I don't totally agree, but I'll wait to see Pattison's Batman first. I just don't buy into the "cinematic universe is a threat" idea.
    Who said it was a threat? I never said it was. I just don't see the need of making a secondary cinematic universe when we already have one.
    Why do you want them to make a DCEU2? Like, what's the benefit here?
    Or are you saying Pattinson's Batman should've been in the existing DCEU to begin with? Which I can see the obvious reason would be they've already established a past his prime Batman and needed to have a separate continuity just to provide the younger version the wanted without having to make it a prequel.
    Either way, never said it was a threat.

    I don't think we need another Joker anyway.
    Oh I agree - just like I'd agree we never need a Superman movie, or Batman, Wizard of Oz, Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, or any movie that's ever been made. We don't need movies, we never have and we never will. There's zero movies you can point to and say that we needed it to be made. Doesn't mean we can't want them, and even though it's not needed I'd still like to see a Joker 2 personally.

    I guess if you look at it as an elseworlds kind of thing, it could work. Although I don't count in CW show in this regard.
    It basically is an Elseworlds kind of thing. Which is pretty neat I think that we've finally got to the point where even that aspect of comic books has finally made it to Hollywood.

    I'm just not totally sure on the appeal of seeing yet another new Batman again. How many times does he get to be rebooted? It looks like it'll be good, but do we need the same thing over again?
    No, we don't "need" it - that doesn't mean there's not a huge audience for it. I mean, we haven't had a young live action Batman film since 2005, or a live action Batman still in his prime since 2008. The Dark Knight Rises and DCEU Batman showed over the hill Batman. And the teaser trailer looks good.
    I mean, maybe it's just not a film for you? There's no problem with that. But I see the appeal, this is the movie I'm most hyped to see (especially since I found Godzilla vs Kong too stupid to enjoy in any capacity and Mortal Kombat was very mediocre). Just what I've seen of this so far makes it look like a return to the kind of film and film-making I've been missing for a while personally.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    This movie that has no other connection to the MCU still needs to be seen because it introduced this or that thing that will be needed during this or that big crossover (all the infinity stones were introduced in solo movies if I remember right). Basically you feel obligated to watch every MCU movie in order or you might miss something that's going to appear later in another movie. It's effective for getting bums in seats every film, but it can irritate.
    That's part of being a cinematic universe. It's fine if you don't like it but that doesn't make it bad. I like seeing characters connect to a wider universe, rather than just the same limited solo stuff we've seen for decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    And all I'm saying is that there's literally zero reason or evidence to think that they will. Why do you think they would?
    Because they've messed up before. Maybe there is no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Who said it was a threat? I never said it was. I just don't see the need of making a secondary cinematic universe when we already have one.
    Why do you want them to make a DCEU2? Like, what's the benefit here?
    Or are you saying Pattinson's Batman should've been in the existing DCEU to begin with? Which I can see the obvious reason would be they've already established a past his prime Batman and needed to have a separate continuity just to provide the younger version the wanted without having to make it a prequel.
    Either way, never said it was a threat.
    I was just referring to the idea stated earlier that DC might do that if the current DCEU fails yet again. It's not my preferred choice either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Oh I agree - just like I'd agree we never need a Superman movie, or Batman, Wizard of Oz, Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, or any movie that's ever been made. We don't need movies, we never have and we never will. There's zero movies you can point to and say that we needed it to be made. Doesn't mean we can't want them, and even though it's not needed I'd still like to see a Joker 2 personally.
    That's not my point. I don't think Joker works without Batman. I didn't think Joker worked as an actual Joker movie. The "solo villain" concept in general doesn't really sound good to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    It basically is an Elseworlds kind of thing. Which is pretty neat I think that we've finally got to the point where even that aspect of comic books has finally made it to Hollywood.
    I guess so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    No, we don't "need" it - that doesn't mean there's not a huge audience for it. I mean, we haven't had a young live action Batman film since 2005, or a live action Batman still in his prime since 2008. The Dark Knight Rises and DCEU Batman showed over the hill Batman. And the teaser trailer looks good.
    I mean, maybe it's just not a film for you? There's no problem with that. But I see the appeal, this is the movie I'm most hyped to see (especially since I found Godzilla vs Kong too stupid to enjoy in any capacity and Mortal Kombat was very mediocre). Just what I've seen of this so far makes it look like a return to the kind of film and film-making I've been missing for a while personally.
    And what exactly do you mean by "return to the kind of film"? Another solo Batman? Because we've had a bunch of those.

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