Star Trek fans, Would you be watching Strange New Worlds

[Donald]

I guess this is where Georgiou is going to end up?

[Anthony W]

I know some trek fans who have said they have given up on Trek after Discovery and Picard. Some are holding on to hope that this would be the third charm for new trek.

I personally think strange new worlds would turn out to be as average to mediocre as Discovery and Picard but I will watch because it has spock and pike. The series would likely also introducing other characters like Uhura, Sulu and Bones.

For those that choose to watch or not watch, what are your expectations of the show and how can they correct some of the jarring errors of discovery and picard.

This post is like asking me "You saw the sentencing (Discovery). You saw the last meal (Picard). You saw last rites (Lower Decks). Will you watch as they finally strap it into the chair and electrify it? (Strange New Worlds).

Might as well LOL.

Kurtzman and Co are just terrible. How CBS-Paramount have not figured out they are the problem bugs me.

I think getting rid of them would cost more than keeping them, Bad Robot must have an awesome contract.

It does me too. CBS seems content to flush their property down the toilet by losing a sizeable portion of the pre-existing fanbase which is especially concerning as Star Trek has always been niche (far more so than Star Wars).

They are trying to turn it into Star Wars and the MCU. They turned Burnham into Iron Man and added R2 units in season two of Discovery.

I dont hate discovery. I don't love it either. And I liked the first half of Picard but then it went off the rails and I ended up hating it.

By going off the rails you mean turning into Mass Effect?

[From The Shadows]

I don't know... I rather they move towards the future finally instead of going back in time prior to TNG/DS9/Voyager. They already did by rebooting the films, with Enterprise, Discovery and Picard is sort of the future but it is still using past characters. I would rather there be a new era 100 + years after the TNG/DS9/Voyager era.

ETA: But not real dark dystopian. I'm getting sick of that current obsession. Some edginess is fine though.

[thwhtGuardian]

I really liked seeing Pike, Spock and Una in Discovery so I'm definitely looking forward to them having their own show.

[Celgress]

I don't know... I rather they move towards the future finally instead of going back in time prior to TNG/DS9/Voyager. They already did by rebooting the films, with Enterprise, Discovery and Picard is sort of the future but it is still using past characters. I would rather there be a new era 100 + years after the TNG/DS9/Voyager era.

ETA: But not real dark dystopian. I'm getting sick of that current obsession. Some edginess is fine though.

Indeed, this obsession with the past is one of the things hurting the franchise most.

[Powerboy]

I know some trek fans who have said they have given up on Trek after Discovery and Picard. Some are holding on to hope that this would be the third charm for new trek.

I personally think strange new worlds would turn out to be as average to mediocre as Discovery and Picard but I will watch because it has spock and pike. The series would likely also introducing other characters like Uhura, Sulu and Bones.

For those that choose to watch or not watch, what are your expectations of the show and how can they correct some of the jarring errors of discovery and picard.

I haven't seen Discovery or Picard and I won't until they show up on Netflix or free television.

I loved DS9 but generally notice the ST ratings have been dropping ever since they abandoned Roddenberry's vision of the human race improving at a core level. Going to networks that are more and more specialized cable channels or streaming so that most people will never watch these shows isn't helping either.

But the Dystopian future is the big thing. You can find that everywhere. ST needs to be the show that offers the opposite.

[Celgress]

I haven't seen Discovery or Picard and I won't until they show up on Netflix or free television.

I loved DS9 but generally notice the ST ratings have been dropping ever since they abandoned Roddenberry's vision of the human race improving at a core level. Going to networks that are more and more specialized cable channels or streaming so that most people will never watch these shows isn't helping either.

But the Dystopian future is the big thing. You can find that everywhere. ST needs to be the show that offers the opposite.

Bravo, well put, this is the core problem, IMO.

[WebLurker]

I haven't seen Discovery or Picard and I won't until they show up on Netflix or free television.

Could try borrowing the DVDs from the public library.

I loved DS9 but generally notice the ST ratings have been dropping ever since they abandoned Roddenberry's vision of the human race improving at a core level.

And yet the early TNG seasons, which where the purest expression of that, sucked.

Going to networks that are more and more specialized cable channels or streaming so that most people will never watch these shows isn't helping either.

Not a fan of the streaming-first, to be fair.

But the Dystopian future is the big thing. You can find that everywhere. ST needs to be the show that offers the opposite.

Which it does. At most, DSC and PIC deconstruct and reconstruct the franchise's values (which, considering the ugly truth that Americans have had to face about our society and the myths regarding how enlightened were actually were, it's a pretty timely subject).

TOS was Trek for the '60s, TNG/DS9/VOY was Trek for the '90s. ENT and the Kelvin timeline were for the early 2000s (when they weren't being fan service to the past). DSC and PIC is Trek for the now, which is what it should be. In its purest form, Star Trek was about the human condition and a mirror to society. There was fun sci-fi stuff along the way and the franchise certainly framed everything from the mindset that progressivism and working to a better future was what we should strive for, but the commentary and themes were always about the now. The shows hit on some timeless stuff that's kept them relevant over the decades (and been the reason the franchise has never truly rebooted), but it's still always of the times. Execution may vary and all that, but DSC and PIC are doing exactly what Star Trek has always done, what's its always been. Maybe now, we don't need a parable about how the future will be perfect, but about even when societies and institutions fail to live up to their values and become corrupted by those who would twist them for their own gain, that those values are still work fighting for and that even a flawed system can be still steered toward a better future. That's not a theme of dystopia. That's a theme of hope; that's what Star Trek is about.

Long story short; this's the Way and how the Force works.

[Celgress]

....Maybe now, we don't need a parable about how the future will be perfect, but about even when societies and institutions fail to live up to their values and become corrupted by those who would twist them for their own gain, that those values are still work fighting for and that even a flawed system can be still steered toward a better future.....

This smacks of presentism something Trek was never about. Trek was about showing us that things would get better not about wallowing in the corruption of today. I don't need nor want presentism in my sci-fi. If you do fine, but I'm not interested. I'd rather be an optimist than a pessimist any day.

[green_garnish]

And yet the early TNG seasons, which where the purest expression of that, sucked.

That is...just not true.

In its purest form, Star Trek was about the human condition and a mirror to society.

This is true. The distinction is that the mirror was always held up in the guise of other worlds, and we were allowed to see what we as a species could rise to. There's none of that any more. Everyone is as bad as everyone else. There is no mirror anymore, just a series of dark shadows showing how awful we can be, rather than how great we can become.

[Celgress]

That is...just not true.



This is true. The distinction is that the mirror was always held up in the guise of other worlds, and we were allowed to see what we as a species could rise to. There's none of that any more. Everyone is as bad as everyone else. There is no mirror anymore, just a series of dark shadows showing how awful we can be, rather than how great we can become.

True, the bad stuff was always outside. The Federation itself was shown to be a great place to live with values of freedom & equality.

[Celgress]

Here is another great example of Federation values. Picard is willing to die rather than interfere in a developing culture -

[WebLurker]

This smacks of presentism something Trek was never about. Trek was about showing us that things would get better not about wallowing in the corruption of today. I don't need nor want presentism in my sci-fi. If you do fine, but I'm not interested. I'd rather be an optimist than a pessimist any day.

How many Vietnam parables did TOS do? How often did the TV shows comment on current events? I'd also point out that the idea of modern-day Trek being pessimistic just doesn't track; while it shows the Federation and Starfleet to be flaws (which is old new, DS9 deconstructed that years ago), in DSC and PIC, the classic ideals always win out in the end. We do see more of the bad, but it's to a point, specifically to build up the good. "Without the darkness, how would we recognize the light?" - Tuvok (VOY, "Cold Fire")

(I should note that, since the Federation has generally represented America, I do find the reframing of the Federation as a flawed organization over the supreme good it used to be depicted as being worth exploring in the modern day worthwhile, since that's what we're dealing with in America now, the shattering of the us having lived up to the dream. Also, I do think that DS9 opened the door to darker themes a long time ago and, with how continuity has been pretty well broken between installments now, I guess I tend to analyze them more as their own installments then as a single tapestry these days. Mileage may vary.)

That is...just not true.

Okay, I'd like to hear more on this.

This is true. The distinction is that the mirror was always held up in the guise of other worlds, and we were allowed to see what we as a species could rise to. There's none of that any more. Everyone is as bad as everyone else. There is no mirror anymore, just a series of dark shadows showing how awful we can be, rather than how great we can become.

Maybe since the franchise already explored the light side, an examination of the darker side is in order, if that makes any sense? All I can say is that in both DSC and PIC, the end message is that we should rise to the higher calling, that that's still worth striving for, even if things will never be perfect. The PIC finale is an old-school Trek resolution to the issue and DSC, while messing around with the ambiguities in the grand tradition of DS9, has kept its moral compass pointing forward. Heck, the point of the two-part pilot was that the principles shouldn't be sacrificed for the greater good and setting the redemption story of someone who lost their way on that point with the best of intentions.

[Castle]

This post is like asking me "You saw the sentencing (Discovery). You saw the last meal (Picard). You saw last rites (Lower Decks). Will you watch as they finally strap it into the chair and electrify it? (Strange New Worlds).

=

I said I will watch to prove myself right that strange new world will suffer from the same problems as discovery and picard.

[G. Boney]

Yeah, I'll check it out like I do all Trek shows (the original being the one I've seen the least of). Didn't stick with Voyager and Enterprise because they weren't good IMO (I hear Enterprise got good in the last couple seasons). Discovery is okay at best but has improved, and Picard's first season sucked but hopefully will improve. Time will tell with SNW, just like the others.