End of series Yamcha VS Shounen series with a twist

[Kuro]

Yamcha, with his stats from EOS, DBZ/Super has to fight against all of the power-houses from various Shounen series (Bleach, Naruto, OP, Hunter/Hunter, etc) but he can only use his OG technique, the mighty WOLF FANG FIST. No spirit ball, no Kamehameha, no ki blasts. He can fly if his enemies take to the air.

How does he do?

[Noldere]

Yamcha, with his stats from EOS, DBZ/Super has to fight against all of the power-houses from various Shounen series (Bleach, Naruto, OP, Hunter/Hunter, etc) but he can only use his OG technique, the mighty WOLF FANG FIST. No spirit ball, no Kamehameha, no ki blasts. He can fly if his enemies take to the air.

How does he do?

Why would you get rid of his spirit ball? It's a technique he himself made (like the Wolf Fang Fist).

[Kuro]

I would presume that by the end of the series, Yamcha should have enough raw energy to effectively destroy entire countries with any given ki-shot, considering he's still fairly powerful on his own.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Is he allowed to try and punt people into orbit? It won't work on everyone, but he's massively faster and stronger than Tao Pai Pai back when he was precision chucking stone pillars intercontinental distances at hypersonic speeds, so it should be pretty good against anyone that can't return from a BFR under their own power, especially if they have enough regen to pretty much ignore being splattered with pure physical force.

For Inu Yasha, under those restrictions, he'd destroy pretty much everyone except maybe Gozu/Mezu (because they can only actually be harmed by things from the world of the dead, though I don't see any reason why he can't spacetoss them effectively), Magatsushi (because his true form is spiritual, though I guess that Yamcha might be able to wish him away if the Shikon no Tama is in the arena as well, what with his familiarity with wishing orbs and absolute lack of anything else to wish for), and maybe Naraku's heartless and fully Youkai stages (due to the possible lack of an insta-kill heart and teleportation shenanigans), but similarly none of them can really do anything that can so much as tickle Yamcha.

That might actually be hilarious in Naraku's case, since every time he drops his barrier for any reason, Yamcha zeroes in on his exact location from anywhere in the world, walks through his barriers like they aren't even there, ignores his spiritually/physically corrosive miasma, possibly senses him through any illusions, and is absolutely unable to do anything to actually put him down for good without ki-blasts so he just keeps throwing him into space/volcanoes/etc...

[Nik Hasta]

Is he allowed to try and punt people into orbit? It won't work on everyone, but he's massively faster and stronger than Tao Pai Pai back when he was precision chucking stone pillars intercontinental distances at hypersonic speeds, so it should be pretty good against anyone that can't return from a BFR under their own power, especially if they have enough regen to pretty much ignore being splattered with pure physical force.

I don't know if Yamcha ever gets to the level of chucking **** into space though? Or how would we compute that?

Like, not to play into the stereotype here, but Yamcha spends most of his time getting worked.

Dude did nothing to Kid Goku when he fought him at the beginning, got worked pretty bad by Kami in the Budokai, got blindsided and killed by a Saibaman after he beat it up, said Saibaman being reputedly as strong as Radditz... got stabbed by Gero/Android 20 in short order. Umm... got worked by a Cell Jr along with everyone else at the Cell Games.

I'm sure I'm missing some of the particulars, I can't pretend I've paid close attention to Yamcha but I'm dubious on just assuming he can throw stuff into orbit at will.

Like, he's more powerful than Tao Pai Pai, that's fair enough but what's he done feats-wise to give us an idea of his capabilities?

[The Drunkard Kid]

I don't know if Yamcha ever gets to the level of chucking **** into space though? Or how would we compute that?

Like, not to play into the stereotype here, but Yamcha spends most of his time getting worked.

Dude did nothing to Kid Goku when he fought him at the beginning, got worked pretty bad by Kami in the Budokai, got blindsided and killed by a Saibaman after he beat it up, said Saibaman being reputedly as strong as Radditz... got stabbed by Gero/Android 20 in short order. Umm... got worked by a Cell Jr along with everyone else at the Cell Games.

I'm sure I'm missing some of the particulars, I can't pretend I've paid close attention to Yamcha but I'm dubious on just assuming he can throw stuff into orbit at will.

Like, he's more powerful than Tao Pai Pai, that's fair enough but what's he done feats-wise to give us an idea of his capabilities?

While we definitely haven't seen the exact extent of his actual stats, I think that DB/Z/S generally allows for a decent amount of A<B<C leveling since most of the stats are based on the same power source/skillset, and being able to keep track of Tenshinhan when he was going as fast as he claimed that Goku was during the fight against Piccolo Daimaou should put him at comfortably being sufficiently faster and more powerful than Tao Pai Pai to allow for space tossing even before taking into account that he was able to physically hold his own against a Saibaman that was supposed to be as strong as Radditz (who treated Post-End-of-Dragonball Goku and Piccolo, who in turn were both significantly stronger than Kami-sama even while not nearly going full out) like they were toddlers, and being able to finish Kaiou-sama's training faster than Goku did should put him at at least Nappa-tier, even without taking into account that he subsequently spent the next 3 years training to fight the Artificial Humans (though that did not end up well for him) who he knew were each supposed to be stronger than Frieza.

Like, Tao Pai Pai's pillar tossing feat alone is close to space tossing (and arguably has better claim to it than a lot of people who do space toss, what with them not having the super speed necessary to throw things at anywhere near escape velocity) and were done with pretty casual ease.

[Nik Hasta]

While we definitely haven't seen the exact extent of his actual stats, I think that DB/Z/S generally allows for a decent amount of A<B<C leveling since most of the stats are based on the same power source/skillset, and being able to keep track of Tenshinhan when he was going as fast as he claimed that Goku was during the fight against Piccolo Daimaou should put him at comfortably being sufficiently faster and more powerful than Tao Pai Pai to allow for space tossing even before taking into account that he was able to physically hold his own against a Saibaman that was supposed to be as strong as Radditz (who treated Post-End-of-Dragonball Goku and Piccolo, who in turn were both significantly stronger than Kami-sama even while not nearly going full out) like they were toddlers, and being able to finish Kaiou-sama's training faster than Goku did should put him at at least Nappa-tier, even without taking into account that he subsequently spent the next 3 years training to fight the Artificial Humans (though that did not end up well for him) who he knew were each supposed to be stronger than Frieza.

I'm not a massive fan of just how much A>B>C stuff there is in there, it relies an awful lot on Tao Pai Pai being gargantuanly stronger than everyone else in the series to that point, but it is Dragonball but I'm obviously no stranger to the business of algorithmic feat scaling.

Like, Tao Pai Pai's pillar tossing feat alone is close to space tossing (and arguably has better claim to it than a lot of people who do space toss, what with them not having the super speed necessary to throw things at anywhere near escape velocity) and were done with pretty casual ease.

If you can throw an object 2300 km laterally at about Mach 7.5, you can chuck stuff into space. Space is only like 350 km up.

I guess Yamcha can casually throw dudes into space, as stupid as that sounds.

[Nik Hasta]

Flicking through the manga, looking at the fight with Yamcha versus Shen, this was also an amusing collision of elements.

- Tao Pai Pai comes back as a cyborg, "more powerful," than before, and is dropped pretty instantly by Tenshinhan.
- Tenshinhan then fights Goku somewhat evenly and boasts he's faster than Goku.
- Goku removes his weighted clothing and is faster than Tenshinhan to the point where he steals his belt mid exchange.

The weight of the clothing?

A whopping... 200lbs...

Like, if Goku and company are as drastically stronger than Tao Pai Pai that this literal arc implies, why on earth does 200lbs matter to his overall speed at all?

[Kuro]

What’s funny is that TFS makes fun of the weighted armor thing when Frieza fights piccolo

[Dark Soul # 7]

Toriyama was never great with numbers.

Isn't a big deal made out of Goku training with 1 ton weight strapped to each of his limbs in the Buu arc, and then he needs to go Super saiyan to move around with those weights being increased to 10 tons?

At the Buu saga those numbers shouldn't even be a blip on Goku's radar.

[Cyke]

I hereby posit that the U6 vs. U7 baseball game will be important in this thread from a feats perspective. Even without his spirit ball, the fact that he was able to manipulate a baseball using ki that was fast enough to strikeout more powerful fighters than him shows he's still got his skills and reflexes. And, based on how some folks take the memes too far, you would've thought every time Yamcha took a hit in that episode (which was several times), he would have exploded in a cloud of blood since he was, again, being hit by far more powerful fighters and kept getting up.

Yamcha may be low-tier, but he's low-tier in a god-tier universe.

Ahem, back to the fight.

[Nik Hasta]

Toriyama was never great with numbers.

Isn't a big deal made out of Goku training with 1 ton weight strapped to each of his limbs in the Buu arc, and then he needs to go Super saiyan to move around with those weights being increased to 10 tons?

At the Buu saga those numbers shouldn't even be a blip on Goku's radar.

This is the other really headscratching one.

Like... at least DB was before people were throwing around planet sundering levels of energy and before Goku and Frieza had taken turn punching each other through mountains.

[Jcogginsa]

I would presume that by the end of the series, Yamcha should have enough raw energy to effectively destroy entire countries with any given ki-shot, considering he's still fairly powerful on his own.

Yamcha, by the Buu arc, is at least seven years out of practice, and in DBZ, being out of practice reduces one's overall power level. So without those feats from Super, him still having his strength from earlier seasons is debateable

Is he allowed to try and punt people into orbit? It won't work on everyone, but he's massively faster and stronger than Tao Pai Pai back when he was precision chucking stone pillars intercontinental distances at hypersonic speeds, so it should be pretty good against anyone that can't return from a BFR under their own power, especially if they have enough regen to pretty much ignore being splattered with pure physical force.

For Inu Yasha, under those restrictions, he'd destroy pretty much everyone except maybe Gozu/Mezu (because they can only actually be harmed by things from the world of the dead, though I don't see any reason why he can't spacetoss them effectively), Magatsushi (because his true form is spiritual, though I guess that Yamcha might be able to wish him away if the Shikon no Tama is in the arena as well, what with his familiarity with wishing orbs and absolute lack of anything else to wish for), and maybe Naraku's heartless and fully Youkai stages (due to the possible lack of an insta-kill heart and teleportation shenanigans), but similarly none of them can really do anything that can so much as tickle Yamcha.

That might actually be hilarious in Naraku's case, since every time he drops his barrier for any reason, Yamcha zeroes in on his exact location from anywhere in the world, walks through his barriers like they aren't even there, ignores his spiritually/physically corrosive miasma, possibly senses him through any illusions, and is absolutely unable to do anything to actually put him down for good without ki-blasts so he just keeps throwing him into space/volcanoes/etc...

I don't think Yamcha's got global scale ki sensing. The only times I recall him tracking people to another region of the planet, he was with a group that he could follow. He might have sensed Cell when he first showed up, but I can't remember

I don't know if Yamcha ever gets to the level of chucking **** into space though? Or how would we compute that?

Like, not to play into the stereotype here, but Yamcha spends most of his time getting worked.

Dude did nothing to Kid Goku when he fought him at the beginning, got worked pretty bad by Kami in the Budokai, got blindsided and killed by a Saibaman after he beat it up, said Saibaman being reputedly as strong as Radditz... got stabbed by Gero/Android 20 in short order. Umm... got worked by a Cell Jr along with everyone else at the Cell Games.

I'm sure I'm missing some of the particulars, I can't pretend I've paid close attention to Yamcha but I'm dubious on just assuming he can throw stuff into orbit at will.

Like, he's more powerful than Tao Pai Pai, that's fair enough but what's he done feats-wise to give us an idea of his capabilities?

IIRC, Yamcha is considered to be stronger than Krillin up until around the 23rd Budokai. He just doesn't get the chance to show off as much.

This is the other really headscratching one.

Like... at least DB was before people were throwing around planet sundering levels of energy and before Goku and Frieza had taken turn punching each other through mountains.

Yamcha doesn't ever approach Base Goku, that much is for sure, and we know from Super the Base Goku is still below Z era Frieza. So we can be reasonably sure that Yamcha never gets to this level.

I'm not sure how much stock we can put into the Baseball episode of Super, for 3 reasons

1. Super in general doesn't care about keeping the scale sensible
2. That episode in particular was a comedy, so it cared about scaling even less than usual
3. Even if the above two weren't a factor, the characters in that episode didn't really give a **** about the game, so it's unlikely that they were using their full strength.

00000

One of these days I'm going to give the Dragonball Manga a read with the express intent of researching the presentation of the character's power levels, because I'm not entirely satisfied with the way it's commonly accepted on the board. There are too many occasions where the character's make a big deal out of an attack being able to destroy a planet for me to accept that all of their attacks can do that.

[The Drunkard Kid]

The weighted clothes thing is kinda a major repeated bit of nonsense that is drastically inconsistent with all their other strength showings, to the point where my personal headcanon is that DB-Earth assigns different values to weight than what we use on real Earth. That said, regarding the scene with Goku's training at the start of the Buu Saga, there's a couple of asterisks on that weight, what with it taking place on a planet with unknown gravity (with at least one of the people in that scene being a guy that lived at 10G in all his previous appearances), and with Goku starting off the scene already drenched in sweat from having been training for an unknown amount of time up until that point.

As for Tao Pai Pai being massively stronger than anyone up to that point (barring Arale), that was pretty much explicitly shown when he casually murdered General Blue with just his tongue despite Blue having at least Kuririn-level stats up to that point, especially with regards to durability, then pretty casually nearly murdered a kid Goku who had just held his own against a still mostly extremely out of shape Kamesennin. And then we get the reveal that Tao Pai Pai was the younger brother of Kamesennin's centuries-old peer, Tsurusennin, and had been the guy that trained Tenshinhan (which motivated Tenshinhan enough to get him to the point where he was able to keep more or less dead even against a Goku after 3 years of training post-defeating-Tao-Pai-Pai).

Yamcha was generally portrayed as weaker than, or at best as strong as, Kuririn since the first time they met (where Yamcha learned that Kuririn was a student of Kamesennin and basically went "well, there goes all my chances for victory"). He even did better against Goku than Yamcha did against Tenshinhan, though in all fairness, Tenshinhan was just generally way more vicious than Goku during that period, and Kuririn impressed a mostly unserious Piccolo at least as much as Yamcha impressed an even less serious Kami-sama, and I think that surviving a moderately serious hit pretty much unharmed from a Piccolo who momentarily forgot to not use lethal force (and pressing him hard enough to actually make him forget to hold back as much as he was planning to) was a notably better feat than landing a trick shot that drew blood on a playing around Kami-sama (who was possessing some random schlub, but with no indication that his stats were actually reduced at that point) who then proceed to precisely one-shot Yamcha.

As for Yamcha not explicitly shown having global level sensing, I guess that's technically true though probably something fairly hand-waveable since that was something that Goku seemed to have been able to do by the time of either his final battle with Piccolo Daimaou or his battle with Raditz, and Yamcha was way more powerful and skilled than Goku was during that period by the end of the series. That said, Naraku never left Japan (except to go to the afterlife once or twice), so that's not really relevant in my Inu Yasha bit, though if anything is going to make Naraku try and emigrate, it's probably a fellow former bandit always coming over to cave in his face every time he peeks out.

[Jcogginsa]

The weighted clothes thing is kinda a major repeated bit of nonsense that is drastically inconsistent with all their other strength showings, to the point where my personal headcanon is that DB-Earth assigns different values to weight than what we use on real Earth. That said, regarding the scene with Goku's training at the start of the Buu Saga, there's a couple of asterisks on that weight, what with it taking place on a planet with unknown gravity (with at least one of the people in that scene being a guy that lived at 10G in all his previous appearances), and with Goku starting off the scene already drenched in sweat from having been training for an unknown amount of time up until that point.

As for Tao Pai Pai being massively stronger than anyone up to that point (barring Arale), that was pretty much explicitly shown when he casually murdered General Blue with just his tongue despite Blue having at least Kuririn-level stats up to that point, especially with regards to durability, then pretty casually nearly murdered a kid Goku who had just held his own against a still mostly extremely out of shape Kamesennin. And then we get the reveal that Tao Pai Pai was the younger brother of Kamesennin's centuries-old peer, Tsurusennin, and had been the guy that trained Tenshinhan (which motivated Tenshinhan enough to get him to the point where he was able to keep more or less dead even against a Goku after 3 years of training post-defeating-Tao-Pai-Pai).

Yamcha was generally portrayed as weaker than, or at best as strong as, Kuririn since the first time they met (where Yamcha learned that Kuririn was a student of Kamesennin and basically went "well, there goes all my chances for victory"). He even did better against Goku than Yamcha did against Tenshinhan, though in all fairness, Tenshinhan was just generally way more vicious than Goku during that period, and Kuririn impressed a mostly unserious Piccolo at least as much as Yamcha impressed an even less serious Kami-sama, and I think that surviving a moderately serious hit pretty much unharmed from a Piccolo who momentarily forgot to not use lethal force (and pressing him hard enough to actually make him forget to hold back as much as he was planning to) was a notably better feat than landing a trick shot that drew blood on a playing around Kami-sama (who was possessing some random schlub, but with no indication that his stats were actually reduced at that point) who then proceed to precisely one-shot Yamcha.

As for Yamcha not explicitly shown having global level sensing, I guess that's technically true though probably something fairly hand-waveable since that was something that Goku seemed to have been able to do by the time of either his final battle with Piccolo Daimaou or his battle with Raditz, and Yamcha was way more powerful and skilled than Goku was during that period by the end of the series. That said, Naraku never left Japan (except to go to the afterlife once or twice), so that's not really relevant in my Inu Yasha bit, though if anything is going to make Naraku try and emigrate, it's probably a fellow former bandit always coming over to cave in his face every time he peeks out.

IIRC Goku doesn't even learn to sense ki until he trains with Kami